New blackjack sport variant: Venetian Blackjack
January 1st, 2025 at 11:26:59 AM
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I recently had an idea for a new variant that I’d love to share with you all. I call it Venetian Blackjack.
The concept is pretty simple: instead of the dealer always being the house, the dealer role rotates among the players.
Here’s what makes it different:
- Dealer rotation: Every player gets the chance to step into the dealer’s shoes, which I think adds a fresh dynamic to the game.
- Single-deck rounds: Each round is played with only one deck, making card counting more approachable and strategic.
- Card counting becomes viable: Since the house isn’t involved, the need to “protect” from card counting disappears, creating new strategic opportunities.
- Familiar mechanics: The core rules of blackjack stay the same, so it still feels like the game we know.
This is just an idea I’m passionate about, and I’d really appreciate your honest feedback. Does this sound like something you’d enjoy? Are there any ways you think it could be improved?
Thanks so much for taking the time to read this, I’m excited to hear what you think.
The concept is pretty simple: instead of the dealer always being the house, the dealer role rotates among the players.
Here’s what makes it different:
- Dealer rotation: Every player gets the chance to step into the dealer’s shoes, which I think adds a fresh dynamic to the game.
- Single-deck rounds: Each round is played with only one deck, making card counting more approachable and strategic.
- Card counting becomes viable: Since the house isn’t involved, the need to “protect” from card counting disappears, creating new strategic opportunities.
- Familiar mechanics: The core rules of blackjack stay the same, so it still feels like the game we know.
This is just an idea I’m passionate about, and I’d really appreciate your honest feedback. Does this sound like something you’d enjoy? Are there any ways you think it could be improved?
Thanks so much for taking the time to read this, I’m excited to hear what you think.
January 1st, 2025 at 1:19:11 PM
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If I could play BJ with an advantage, why would I give it up for the tiny house edge?
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
January 1st, 2025 at 2:07:12 PM
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Obvious problem is that whoever is banking it needs to have enough to cover all possible wins. Which means everyone at the table needs to have 8 x table limit x (number of players - 1) Assuming 6 players at the table and a $1000 table max that would be $40K each. And that's just for one hand! Dealers can always get a fill when they need one but we can run out of money.
January 1st, 2025 at 3:13:26 PM
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Quote: AutomaticMonkeyObvious problem is that whoever is banking it needs to have enough to cover all possible wins. Which means everyone at the table needs to have 8 x table limit x (number of players - 1) Assuming 6 players at the table and a $1000 table max that would be $40K each. And that's just for one hand! Dealers can always get a fill when they need one but we can run out of money.
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That was going to be my comment. The guy playing $10 a hand is probably not able to cover the $100 players.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
January 1st, 2025 at 6:45:46 PM
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Quote: DRichQuote: AutomaticMonkeyObvious problem is that whoever is banking it needs to have enough to cover all possible wins. Which means everyone at the table needs to have 8 x table limit x (number of players - 1) Assuming 6 players at the table and a $1000 table max that would be $40K each. And that's just for one hand! Dealers can always get a fill when they need one but we can run out of money.
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That was going to be my comment. The guy playing $10 a hand is probably not able to cover the $100 players.
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As noted above, a game like this (at home or in a casino) would have to have a relatively small range of table limits. This will affect placement to some extent, as not every shop will be willing to place enough tables to cover desired bet amounts for all players.
One question… Hand for hand, does the “player/dealer” have to play their hand according to set rules or are they free to use their own strategy? This, of course, will affect the strategies used by the other players.
It’s a dog eat dog world.
…Or maybe it’s the other way around!
January 2nd, 2025 at 12:32:31 AM
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Quote: billryanIf I could play BJ with an advantage, why would I give it up for the tiny house edge?
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Great question! Venetian Blackjack isn’t necessarily designed to replace traditional Blackjack for those who thrive on exploiting an edge through advanced techniques like bet spreads or team play. Instead, it offers a different kind of challenge.
The rotating dealer role, single-deck format, and fixed bets create a unique environment where the focus shifts from bankroll management to pure skill and strategy. Every player at the table has the same tools to work with, and the game becomes about who can adapt best to the dynamics of each round.
For those who enjoy the intellectual challenge of Blackjack but want a game that feels more like a competition between equals, Venetian Blackjack provides an opportunity to test your skills in a fair, level playing field.
The small house fee ensures fairness without undermining the strategic depth of the game. It’s a fresh take, not meant to replace your advantage plays, but to offer an alternative experience for those who value the thrill of strategy and competition over maximizing EV.
January 2nd, 2025 at 12:35:52 AM
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Quote: AutomaticMonkeyObvious problem is that whoever is banking it needs to have enough to cover all possible wins. Which means everyone at the table needs to have 8 x table limit x (number of players - 1) Assuming 6 players at the table and a $1000 table max that would be $40K each. And that's just for one hand! Dealers can always get a fill when they need one but we can run out of money.
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Bets are fixed for everyone (eg: 10$/20$ double-down). Before each round, the game automatically checks that the dealer (banker) has enough funds to cover the maximum possible payout, including potential double-downs from all players. If the dealer doesn’t have sufficient funds, the player must leave the table.
The goal here is to make the dealer role both fun and manageable without requiring an overwhelming bankroll. Venetian Blackjack balances accessibility with fairness, ensuring no one is forced into a financially risky position.
Do you think this system addresses your concerns?
January 2nd, 2025 at 12:38:13 AM
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Quote: DRichQuote: AutomaticMonkeyObvious problem is that whoever is banking it needs to have enough to cover all possible wins. Which means everyone at the table needs to have 8 x table limit x (number of players - 1) Assuming 6 players at the table and a $1000 table max that would be $40K each. And that's just for one hand! Dealers can always get a fill when they need one but we can run out of money.
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That was going to be my comment. The guy playing $10 a hand is probably not able to cover the $100 players.
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Thank you for your comment DRich, check the reply I gave to AutomaticMonkey (sorry, apparently it doesn't allow me to link the reply directly)
Last edited by: monteiz on Jan 2, 2025
January 2nd, 2025 at 12:45:02 AM
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Quote:As noted above, a game like this (at home or in a casino) would have to have a relatively small range of table limits. This will affect placement to some extent, as not every shop will be willing to place enough tables to cover desired bet amounts for all players.
It’s true that Venetian Blackjack has a fixed-bet system for each table, which naturally limits the range of betting options. To balance this, the game design allows for a variety of tables with different fixed bets to cater to players with varying bankrolls.
For example:
- Casual players might enjoy tables with $10 fixed bets.
- High rollers can engage at tables with $1,000 or even $5,000 fixed bets.
This structure minimizes the need for a casino to host excessive tables while still offering a range of choices for players. It’s about keeping the setup manageable and efficient while ensuring accessibility across different player preferences.
Quote:One question… Hand for hand, does the “player/dealer” have to play their hand according to set rules or are they free to use their own strategy? This, of course, will affect the strategies used by the other players.
In Venetian Blackjack, the dealer is free to play their hand however they want, with one key difference:
- In the case of a tie (even total), the dealer wins.
This freedom allows the dealer to adapt their strategy to the game situation, which creates a more dynamic and competitive environment. Other players, knowing this, must consider the dealer’s unpredictability when formulating their own strategies.
This approach introduces a layer of psychological play, similar to poker, where reading the dealer’s tendencies and predicting their choices can become part of the overall strategy.
Do you think this combination of table variety and dealer flexibility strikes the right balance for players and casinos alike?
January 2nd, 2025 at 4:41:17 AM
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The player needs to flat bet and loses on ties?
In normal BJ, the dealer wins about 48%, the player about 42% and just under10% end in ties.
In your game, the house would win about 58% of the hands, with the player winning 42%.
Why would I play it?
In normal BJ, the dealer wins about 48%, the player about 42% and just under10% end in ties.
In your game, the house would win about 58% of the hands, with the player winning 42%.
Why would I play it?
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
January 2nd, 2025 at 5:28:28 AM
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Quote: billryanThe player needs to flat bet and loses on ties?
In normal BJ, the dealer wins about 48%, the player about 42% and just under10% end in ties.
In your game, the house would win about 58% of the hands, with the player winning 42%.
Why would I play it?
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Thank you for your comment. I believe there may be a misunderstanding about how Venetian Blackjack works, so let me clarify .
In Venetian Blackjack, the house is not involved in the actual gameplay, it earns a small fee from players’ winnings, but it does not participate as the dealer. Instead, the dealer role rotates among the players, and the game is structured to ensure fairness and balance.
I hope this clears up some of the confusion.
January 2nd, 2025 at 5:43:03 AM
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Quote: monteizQuote: billryanThe player needs to flat bet and loses on ties?
In normal BJ, the dealer wins about 48%, the player about 42% and just under10% end in ties.
In your game, the house would win about 58% of the hands, with the player winning 42%.
Why would I play it?
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Thank you for your comment. I believe there may be a misunderstanding about how Venetian Blackjack works, so let me clarify .
In Venetian Blackjack, the house is not involved in the actual gameplay, it earns a small fee from players’ winnings, but it does not participate as the dealer. Instead, the dealer role rotates among the players, and the game is structured to ensure fairness and balance.
I hope this clears up some of the confusion.
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The player wins 42%, the dealer wins 58% of the time, and the player pays the house a percentage of his 42%, so the odds against him are more like 60-40.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
January 2nd, 2025 at 5:54:23 AM
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Quote:The player wins 42%, the dealer wins 58% of the time, and the player pays the house a percentage of his 42%, so the odds against him are more like 60-40.
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You’re absolutely correct that the dealer has an inherent advantage due to winning on ties. However, the dealer role rotates among all players, so everyone gets the opportunity to benefit from that advantage. Over time, this evens out, as each player experiences both the risk and the reward of being the dealer.
Do you see my point? Do you see any drawback?
January 2nd, 2025 at 6:02:55 AM
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No, I don't. With five players at the table, wouldn't I be at a terrible disadvantage 80% of the time, and have an advantage 20% of the time? That doesn't sound like a good game whatsoever. Anyway, I'm done and hope you can work out the kinks.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
January 2nd, 2025 at 6:03:09 AM
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No, I don't. With five players at the table, wouldn't I be at a terrible disadvantage 80% of the time, and have an advantage 20% of the time? That doesn't sound like a good game whatsoever. Anyway, I'm done and hope you can work out the kinks.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
January 2nd, 2025 at 6:05:07 AM
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Quote: billryanNo, I don't. With five players at the table, wouldn't I be at a terrible disadvantage 80% of the time, and have an advantage 20% of the time? That doesn't sound like a good game whatsoever. Anyway, I'm done and hope you can work out the kinks.
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Right but you have 4x at risk when there’s an advantage as you are banking. So it’s a wash.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
January 2nd, 2025 at 6:08:08 AM
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Quote: unJonQuote: billryanNo, I don't. With five players at the table, wouldn't I be at a terrible disadvantage 80% of the time, and have an advantage 20% of the time? That doesn't sound like a good game whatsoever. Anyway, I'm done and hope you can work out the kinks.
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Right but you have 4x at risk when there’s an advantage as you are banking. So it’s a wash.
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Except the house gets a part of your winnings.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
January 2nd, 2025 at 6:10:44 AM
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When you're the dealer, you may have the inherent advantage of winning ties, but you're also taking on the risk of covering multiple players' bets, which evens things out over time. The rotation ensures that everyone experiences both sides of the equation, sometimes you're at risk as the dealer, and other times you're simply placing bets as a player.
It’s this dynamic that creates a unique balance
It’s this dynamic that creates a unique balance
January 2nd, 2025 at 6:13:57 AM
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Quote:Except the house gets a part of your winnings.
That’s true, the house does take a small fee from winnings. However, in traditional Blackjack, you always play against the house, and the odds are stacked against you from the start. In Venetian Blackjack, the dynamic shifts, players take turns being the dealer and get to experience the inherent advantages of that role.
So while the house takes a fee, the rotating dealer role means you’re not always at a disadvantage, unlike traditional Blackjack. It adds a layer of strategy and balance that makes the game unique.
January 2nd, 2025 at 6:24:48 AM
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I made an implementation of the game here:
www
venetianblackjack
com
I am sitting at the first table with a robot
www
venetianblackjack
com
I am sitting at the first table with a robot
January 2nd, 2025 at 6:30:50 AM
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Quote: monteizQuote:Except the house gets a part of your winnings.
That’s true, the house does take a small fee from winnings. However, in traditional Blackjack, you always play against the house, and the odds are stacked against you from the start. In Venetian Blackjack, the dynamic shifts, players take turns being the dealer and get to experience the inherent advantages of that role.
So while the house takes a fee, the rotating dealer role means you’re not always at a disadvantage, unlike traditional Blackjack. It adds a layer of strategy and balance that makes the game unique.
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What strategy does it introduce to the game?
What about the weakest player at the table? Not only does he play at a 20% house edge 80% of the time, but when it is his turn to deal, he doesn't get to play against the weakest player.
Your game requires a large bankroll and the house participates in a player's winnings. I don't know who the target audience is, but how many $10 players have a bankroll big enough for this game? It's great for the casino, which is, in effect, renting you a spot at the table.and raking a percent or two off each pot. If the same five players play to infinity, the house gets everything.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
January 2nd, 2025 at 6:37:04 AM
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Since the dealer winning ties is a wash, why do it? Why not keep is as pushes?
I’m curious why you’re calling it ‘Venetian’ Blackjack. Do you work there? Are they involved in this?
I’m curious why you’re calling it ‘Venetian’ Blackjack. Do you work there? Are they involved in this?
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
January 2nd, 2025 at 6:42:43 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearSince the dealer winning ties is a wash, why do it? Why not keep is as pushes?
I’m curious why you’re calling it ‘Venetian’ Blackjack. Do you work there? Are they involved in this?
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Without the dealer winning ties, what incentive would there be to risk hundreds of dollars being the dealer?
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
January 2nd, 2025 at 6:56:27 AM
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The "dealer" player is apparently not required to hit to 17.
This seems to be an attempt to make a 21 game play more like home poker.
Best of luck.
This seems to be an attempt to make a 21 game play more like home poker.
Best of luck.
May the cards fall in your favor.
January 2nd, 2025 at 7:03:31 AM
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I think new member monteiz may have reached the daily posting limit.
Be sure to tune in tomorrow for another exciting episode...
Be sure to tune in tomorrow for another exciting episode...
May the cards fall in your favor.
January 2nd, 2025 at 10:04:09 AM
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Quote: monteizQuote:Except the house gets a part of your winnings.
That’s true, the house does take a small fee from winnings. However, in traditional Blackjack, you always play against the house, and the odds are stacked against you from the start. In Venetian Blackjack, the dynamic shifts, players take turns being the dealer and get to experience the inherent advantages of that role.
So while the house takes a fee, the rotating dealer role means you’re not always at a disadvantage, unlike traditional Blackjack. It adds a layer of strategy and balance that makes the game unique.
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monteiz,
What's to prevent me from joining the table when it is my turn to deal, then leaving afterwards, only to repeat the cycle four hands later?
As an alternative, what is the incentive for a player to play all the rounds against the dealer?
Dog Hand
January 2nd, 2025 at 12:02:03 PM
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Quote: DogHandQuote: monteizQuote:Except the house gets a part of your winnings.
That’s true, the house does take a small fee from winnings. However, in traditional Blackjack, you always play against the house, and the odds are stacked against you from the start. In Venetian Blackjack, the dynamic shifts, players take turns being the dealer and get to experience the inherent advantages of that role.
So while the house takes a fee, the rotating dealer role means you’re not always at a disadvantage, unlike traditional Blackjack. It adds a layer of strategy and balance that makes the game unique.
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monteiz,
What's to prevent me from joining the table when it is my turn to deal, then leaving afterwards, only to repeat the cycle four hands later?
As an alternative, what is the incentive for a player to play all the rounds against the dealer?
Dog Hand
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Not being silly…. are you allowed to ‘go to the bathroom’ and miss a round?
And of course, basic strategy goes out the window with dealers winning ties.
I don’t think it’s an inherently bad game, but too many obstacles to make it a commercial success. I’d have no interest in needing a $1k bankroll to play $10 BJ.
January 2nd, 2025 at 10:08:58 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearSince the dealer winning ties is a wash, why do it? Why not keep is as pushes?
The reason for the "dealer wins ties" rule is to ensure that the dealer role provides a clear and consistent advantage. Without this, the dealer’s position might lose its appeal, as it would otherwise play too similarly to being a standard player. This rule adds balance to the game, making the dealer's turn feel meaningful and rewarding, while the rotation ensures fairness for all players over time.
If ties were simply treated as pushes, the strategic dynamics of Venetian Blackjack would shift, potentially reducing the incentive for players to fully engage with the dealer role. The rule is designed to enhance the depth of the game and make the role rotation a central, exciting feature.
Quote:I’m curious why you’re calling it ‘Venetian’ Blackjack. Do you work there? Are they involved in this?
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No relation at all with the Venetian Casino. I’m from Italy, though from Rome, not Venice, and chose the name because it’s appealing, catchy, and evokes a sense of elegance and sophistication. The name reflects the classy, social atmosphere I wanted to convey with the game rather than any geographic or corporate connection.
January 3rd, 2025 at 7:50:37 AM
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Your dog don't hunt.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
January 4th, 2025 at 1:24:04 AM
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Quote: billryanWithout the dealer winning ties, what incentive would there be to risk hundreds of dollars being the dealer?
Being the dealer provides a statistical advantage, meaning the risk is calculated with favorable odds. You're not just "risking to lose"; you're risking to win hundreds of dollars.
Quote: billryanYour dog don't hunt.
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Constructive criticism is valuable, but dismissive comments without depth don't help the discussion or assess the game's quality effectively.
January 4th, 2025 at 1:30:38 AM
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Quote:Not being silly…. are you allowed to ‘go to the bathroom’ and miss a round?
Yes, players can "sit out" a round if needed. It’s no different from stepping away from the table in a traditional casino game. The dealer role would simply rotate to the next player.
Quote:And of course, basic strategy goes out the window with dealers winning ties.
Basic strategy remains fundamentally the same, but it adapts to the new dynamic introduced by dealer ties. This creates an additional layer of decision-making, making the game more strategic and rewarding for players who invest time to master it. Far from eliminating strategy, it deepens the game.
Quote:I don’t think it’s an inherently bad game, but too many obstacles to make it a commercial success. I’d have no interest in needing a $1k bankroll to play $10 BJ.
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If you're playing at a $10 table, your maximum potential loss as the dealer would be $20 (accounting for a double down) times 4 (the maximum number of other players), which equals $80, not $1,000. The required bankroll scales with the table limit, making it accessible to players at different levels.
January 4th, 2025 at 1:49:25 AM
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Quote: All skeptics and critics
Alright, instead of endlessly debating the merits of Venetian Blackjack, why not experience it firsthand?
I’m inviting everyone involved in this discussion, whether you’re skeptical, curious, or outright dismissive, to join me for an online demo game.
Let’s put all theories, objections, and hypotheticals to the test at the table. This way, we can finally discuss real gameplay rather than speculating from the sidelines.
Who’s in? Let’s coordinate a time. I propose meeting tomorrow (Sunday 5th) at the FUN 1/2 - 7 seconds timeout table (it’s the fourth table on the list) at 11:00 AM New York time (GMT-5).
I’ll be there. See you at the table
