Telling a dealer "Dummy up and deal"
I do a lot of esoteric stuff. Not much of my play is classical counting, which is exoteric and done to death. So my bets sometimes look a little unusual.
Thus I often have a conversation with a dealer that goes like this:
"You can't bet like that, you have to..."
"Yes I can."
"The rules say you have to... you can't..."
"Yes I can."
"FLOOR!"
"Do you see what he's doing? He's trying to bet..."
"Yes he can."
"That settles it. I can. Let's have some cards, please."
"But... but... but... but..."
And afterwards she is grudging every win, grumbling during each hand like a shop steward when someone take an extra smoke break. "This shouldn't be allowed... you're not supposed to... I don't know why..."
It takes willpower to not say "Shut your @#$%&! gob and just deal the @#$%&! cards!"
Of course, willpower and self-control being basic skills for all APs those words do not come out. But I was wondering who else encounters this and what are some good ways to shut it down. The less I am involved with calls to the floor, disgruntled dealers, any kind of attention or self-heat the better.
I’m shocked yet not surprised it’s out there in the dealer world. Your right - just shut up and deal the cards needs to be said (in a nice way) . LoL
I wonder why they would be that way especially when it directly affects their potential tips.
Instead of saying "yes I can" you should smile and say "I think it's allowed, can you ask for me please?"
Being polite works wonders. If they continue to be rude just ignore it or change tables if possible. It's important to remember that these casino employees have spent thousands of hours dealing with some of the most miserable people in the world in an extremely toxic environment. Of course that doesn't excuse their rudeness, but if YOU act pleasant and respectful, you'll find that the majority of dealers will act the same way.
Not a dealer but another player told me I could not pick up a Don't Pass bet. He was trying to impress his woman. I caused him to emasculate himself when he protested to the dealer. Wrong play math wise, but it worked out for me and well we do not always follow the math when having a little fun. So, if it was a play like that and the dealer was new and protested I would just call FLOOR and get a pit boss to rule.
Now, if it was splitting 10s vs. a dealer 6 and the dealer knew you were allowed but it was a bad play that is a different story. I asked a dealer about it and he chuckled, "do you want to start a war?" I said I didn't care and did it. That play has worked and cost me but again, it can be fun. In that case I would say politely tell the dealer you can. I might add even say "I know it might not be right but I like to play around a bit." Even a head tilt and a look could do it. Let the dealer think they are in the right as long as you get to keep playing. Because what you do not want is a note in your PC file that you are "difficult."
Quote: MichaelBluejay@AutomaticMonkey, how the hell are you betting that it causes dealers to object?!
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Suffice it to say that on certain tables at certain games, there are several bets. Some are better than others, and even "bad" games can have bets where large advantages appear sometimes, and in that case I am betting a lot more on a good thing than a bad thing.
Quote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: MichaelBluejay@AutomaticMonkey, how the hell are you betting that it causes dealers to object?!
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Suffice it to say that on certain tables at certain games, there are several bets. Some are better than others, and even "bad" games can have bets where large advantages appear sometimes, and in that case I am betting a lot more on a good thing than a bad thing.
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So you're not gonna tell us. Got it.
Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.
Quote: AutomaticMonkeyOK here's something I have been encountering a lot of at the tables since coming to Vegas.
I do a lot of esoteric stuff. Not much of my play is classical counting, which is exoteric and done to death. So my bets sometimes look a little unusual.
Thus I often have a conversation with a dealer that goes like this:
"You can't bet like that, you have to..."
"Yes I can."
"The rules say you have to... you can't..."
"Yes I can."
"FLOOR!"
"Do you see what he's doing? He's trying to bet..."
"Yes he can."
"That settles it. I can. Let's have some cards, please."
"But... but... but... but..."
And afterwards she is grudging every win, grumbling during each hand like a shop steward when someone take an extra smoke break. "This shouldn't be allowed... you're not supposed to... I don't know why..."
It takes willpower to not say "Shut your @#$%&! gob and just deal the @#$%&! cards!"
Of course, willpower and self-control being basic skills for all APs those words do not come out. But I was wondering who else encounters this and what are some good ways to shut it down. The less I am involved with calls to the floor, disgruntled dealers, any kind of attention or self-heat the better.
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She sounded rude and unprofessional. I'd have half a mind to report her to her Supervisor. 😵💫
Quote: DeucekiesSometimes for good reasons posters need to be vague or should be vague. You just have to think about what they are saying. To me he spelled it out pretty clearly.Quote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: MichaelBluejay@AutomaticMonkey, how the hell are you betting that it causes dealers to object?!
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Suffice it to say that on certain tables at certain games, there are several bets. Some are better than others, and even "bad" games can have bets where large advantages appear sometimes, and in that case I am betting a lot more on a good thing than a bad thing.
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So you're not gonna tell us. Got it.
Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.
link to original postHappy days are here again
Once I tried to hit A,7 against a 10 (which is the proper basic strategy play) and the dealer tried to talk me out of it. I politely told him that I preferred to hit. I wound up losing the hand and he gestured to his cards and shook his head at me and frowned, like I was an idiot. I asked him, "Do you often talk yourself out of your tips?"Quote: NathanShe sounded rude and unprofessional. I'd have half a mind to report her to her Supervisor. 😵💫 link to original post
I was counting cards in those days and I always tipped, not just for the cover, but because I thought it was appropriate, though I didn't like the fact that it reduced my chances of realizing a profit. So I was kind of relieved when the dealer gave me a good excuse to not tip. Same as when a cabbie told me that the restaurant I wanted to go to had burned down and he recommended a different one and he automatically started going there without my assent. I insisted on going to the destination I specified, and when we arrived and it was intact, I didn't tip and told him why, nice to have a good excuse not to.
Based on what he said it sounds like you should pretty easily be able to figure out why his bets might look weird... but just my opinion.Quote: DeucekiesSo you're not gonna tell us. Got it.
Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.
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Quote: Romes
Ever see a blackjack player bet $1 on the hand and $100 on the side?
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But I don't see the need for secrecy in this case. Reverse-betting is hardly revolutionary.
Opinion on the Tyson vs. Paul fight in the other thread, please...Quote: RomesBased on what he said it sounds like you should pretty easily be able to figure out why his bets might look weird... but just my opinion.Quote: DeucekiesSo you're not gonna tell us. Got it.
Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.
link to original postEver see a blackjack player bet $1 on the hand and $100 on the side?
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Quote: MichaelBluejayOnce I tried to hit A,7 against a 10 (which is the proper basic strategy play) and the dealer tried to talk me out of it. I politely told him that I preferred to hit. I wound up losing the hand and he gestured to his cards and shook his head at me and frowned, like I was an idiot. I asked him, "Do you often talk yourself out of your tips?"Quote: NathanShe sounded rude and unprofessional. I'd have half a mind to report her to her Supervisor. 😵💫 link to original post
I was counting cards in those days and I always tipped, not just for the cover, but because I thought it was appropriate, though I didn't like the fact that it reduced my chances of realizing a profit. So I was kind of relieved when the dealer gave me a good excuse to not tip. Same as when a cabbie told me that the restaurant I wanted to go to had burned down and he recommended a different one and he automatically started going there without my assent. I insisted on going to the destination I specified, and when we arrived and it was intact, I didn't tip and told him why, nice to have a good excuse not to.
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Dealer shouldn't have FROWNED at you when you lost the hand, he should have shrugged and said,"Better luck next time." 🤔💡 I thought the Cabbie who told you the Restaurant had burned down and you insisted on going there anyways was going to end with the restaurant HAD burned down and you STILL didn't tip him because he shouldn't have started driving to another Restaurant without your assent. 🤔💡 And instead took ANOTHER cab to the Restaurant he was trying to take you in the first place purely out of principle. 🤔💡
Quote: RomesBased on what he said it sounds like you should pretty easily be able to figure out why his bets might look weird... but just my opinion.Quote: DeucekiesSo you're not gonna tell us. Got it.
Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.
link to original postEver see a blackjack player bet $1 on the hand and $100 on the side?
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I've never seen a dollar BJ table with a decent sidebet.
Feel free to use the line that I use:Quote: MichaelBluejayOnce I tried to hit A,7 against a 10 (which is the proper basic strategy play) and the dealer tried to talk me out of it. I politely told him that I preferred to hit.
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“The book says hit, and I’m friends with the author.” 😁
Quote: NathanQuote: MichaelBluejayOnce I tried to hit A,7 against a 10 (which is the proper basic strategy play) and the dealer tried to talk me out of it. I politely told him that I preferred to hit. I wound up losing the hand and he gestured to his cards and shook his head at me and frowned, like I was an idiot. I asked him, "Do you often talk yourself out of your tips?"Quote: NathanShe sounded rude and unprofessional. I'd have half a mind to report her to her Supervisor. 😵💫 link to original post
I was counting cards in those days and I always tipped, not just for the cover, but because I thought it was appropriate, though I didn't like the fact that it reduced my chances of realizing a profit. So I was kind of relieved when the dealer gave me a good excuse to not tip. Same as when a cabbie told me that the restaurant I wanted to go to had burned down and he recommended a different one and he automatically started going there without my assent. I insisted on going to the destination I specified, and when we arrived and it was intact, I didn't tip and told him why, nice to have a good excuse not to.
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Dealer shouldn't have FROWNED at you when you lost the hand, he should have shrugged and said,"Better luck next time." 🤔💡 I thought the Cabbie who told you the Restaurant had burned down and you insisted on going there anyways was going to end with the restaurant HAD burned down and you STILL didn't tip him because he shouldn't have started driving to another Restaurant without your assent. 🤔💡 And instead took ANOTHER cab to the Restaurant he was trying to take you in the first place purely out of principle. 🤔💡
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Many dealers like to be the Armchair QB or in this case, play the hand "their way" with YOUR money! Simply because they want the Kudos and to feel superior to the Ploppies they see dropping their money like bird seed at the park.
Had a similar situation where the dealer was insisting the right play with 9-9 vs Dealer 7 was a split. I knew better and politely declined.
She kept saying "Last chance... Split em and win Double!!!" I firmly waived it off. She flipped a 3 in the hole, pulled a 10 and kept shaking her head as she scooped up my chips. It then intensified to "Told ya! See woulda had TWO 19s!"
I replied "Only for you to pull the next 10 and beat both... and then what???" She goes "You don't Know that, better to have two 19s vs one 18!" I sit out the next hand and the player on the end of the table says "You done"??
I says "When the next two cards come out and are 10 cards, so I can show this know it all, then I'm done!"
Dealer pulls the cards as quickly as possible, but it was clear as day when she revealed 3rd Base's 1st card was a King and her 1st card to be a 10!
"Just like I thought, you'd Kill both 19s with a 20 and I'd lose double... Now I'm DONE!"
At Stations casinos most tables offer the pair square and the fortune side bets - so for example, at a $25 minimum table - in an extreme negative count with a sufficient excess of A678s one could make a bet comprised of -
$5 main bet
$5 pairs
$35 fortune
This rule is fairly new and I have had multiple dealers already telling me that I have to place $25 in the main spot, which results in the floor being called over and I tell the floor, "Benny here didn't get the memo."
Is this what you are getting at, old friend?
Quote: billryanQuote: RomesBased on what he said it sounds like you should pretty easily be able to figure out why his bets might look weird... but just my opinion.Quote: DeucekiesSo you're not gonna tell us. Got it.
Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.
link to original postEver see a blackjack player bet $1 on the hand and $100 on the side?
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I've never seen a dollar BJ table with a decent sidebet.
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Many years ago, here in WA. I happened across a 2 dollar table with Lucky ladies, Max if I recall
was 25 on the ladies
Or how about "The book says hit, and I wrote the book." !Quote: DJTeddyBearFeel free to use the line that I use:Quote: MichaelBluejayOnce I tried to hit A,7 against a 10 (which is the proper basic strategy play) and the dealer tried to talk me out of it. I politely told him that I preferred to hit.
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“The book says hit, and I’m friends with the author.” 😁
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I've been toying with writing a book for years, if for no other reason than it's alliterative gold: Bluejay's Blackjack.
Quote: zengrifterI have recently had this exact same experience a few times - most or all of the Las Vegas area Stations casinos now allow that the optional sucker bets count towards the table minimum bet.
At Stations casinos most tables offer the pair square and the fortune side bets - so for example, at a $25 minimum table - in an extreme negative count with a sufficient excess of A678s one could make a bet comprised of -
$5 main bet
$5 pairs
$35 fortune
This rule is fairly new and I have had multiple dealers already telling me that I have to place $25 in the main spot, which results in the floor being called over and I tell the floor, "Benny here didn't get the memo."
Is this what you are getting at, old friend?
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Wow, cool, you're still in the game ZG!
Yeah, basically that. But that's not all.
Quote: MichaelBluejayOr how about "The book says hit, and I wrote the book." !Quote: DJTeddyBearFeel free to use the line that I use:Quote: MichaelBluejayOnce I tried to hit A,7 against a 10 (which is the proper basic strategy play) and the dealer tried to talk me out of it. I politely told him that I preferred to hit.
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“The book says hit, and I’m friends with the author.” 😁
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I've been toying with writing a book for years, if for no other reason than it's alliterative gold: Bluejay's Blackjack.
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Yeah but if someone is alliterate, what are they going to do with a book?
I've had to restrain myself from saying exactly that, on certain derivative games.
Over a decade?
5 years ago I would never have imagined that I would be playing more slots in any given week than I played in my entire life prior to 2022!
Slots and sucker bets baby!
Quote: MichaelBluejayOr how about "The book says hit, and I wrote the book." !Quote: DJTeddyBearFeel free to use the line that I use:Quote: MichaelBluejayOnce I tried to hit A,7 against a 10 (which is the proper basic strategy play) and the dealer tried to talk me out of it. I politely told him that I preferred to hit.
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“The book says hit, and I’m friends with the author.” 😁
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I've been toying with writing a book for years, if for no other reason than it's alliterative gold: Bluejay's Blackjack.
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BJ’s BJ… That has a ring
Quote: zengrifterWhat's it been, man?
Over a decade?
5 years ago I would never have imagined that I would be playing more slots in any given week than I played in my entire life prior to 2022!
Slots and sucker bets baby!
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Oh yeah, nothing but sucker bets for me. You slot guys, I can't keep up with all that.
Quote: zengrifter
5 years ago I would never have imagined that I would be playing more slots in any given week than I played in my entire life prior to 2022!
Slots and sucker bets baby!
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Welcome to +ev!
Besides dragon bets, what other side bet is +ev?
Quote: 100xOddsQuote: zengrifter
5 years ago I would never have imagined that I would be playing more slots in any given week than I played in my entire life prior to 2022!
Slots and sucker bets baby!
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Welcome to +ev!
Besides dragon bets, what other side bet is +ev?
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It depends on the count (and which type of count!).
Quote: 100xOddsQuote: zengrifter
5 years ago I would never have imagined that I would be playing more slots in any given week than I played in my entire life prior to 2022!
Slots and sucker bets baby!
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Welcome to +ev!
Besides dragon bets, what other side bet is +ev?
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Allllll of them! But only some are worth the time and other resources to play them.
... My method allows me to keep my main count and yet this unpublished method for lucky lucky has been validated by simulation to be just as accurate as the Jacobson and Howe plus / minus lucky lucky counts.
... regarding slots - how many games do you know? My playbook is over 150 games.
Quote: zengrifterI have recently had this exact same experience a few times - most or all of the Las Vegas area Stations casinos now allow that the optional sucker bets count towards the table minimum bet.
At Stations casinos most tables offer the pair square and the fortune side bets - so for example, at a $25 minimum table - in an extreme negative count with a sufficient excess of A678s one could make a bet comprised of -
$5 main bet
$5 pairs
$35 fortune
This rule is fairly new and I have had multiple dealers already telling me that I have to place $25 in the main spot, which results in the floor being called over and I tell the floor, "Benny here didn't get the memo."
Interesting. So how low are you allowed to go on the hand if you have the table minimum met on the bonus? What's stopping you from betting $1 on the hand?
Quote: zengrifterI have my own proprietary method for the lucky lucky - it's not like anything published because it does not require a specialized +/- count that would preclude my ability to keep my main count.
... My method allows me to keep my main count and yet this unpublished method for lucky lucky has been validated by simulation to be just as accurate as the Jacobson and Howe plus / minus lucky lucky counts.
... regarding slots - how many games do you know? My playbook is over 150 games.
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Ah yes, I know exactly how that works. That works very well because there is only one neutral card for that bet, so a system where you assume all cards that are not of one polarity are of the other polarity is acceptable. It can be treated a lot like the Insurance Count, just with different cards.
But for that I prefer an unbalanced +/- count. Most of my sucker bet counts are unbalanced because they tend to go +EV near the pivot point. But there's one I use balanced because one bet strikes on the + side and another strikes on the - side, and yet another where it goes +EV so soon you're not that close to the pivot point.
Quote: AutomaticMonkey
Ah yes, I know exactly how that works. That works very well because there is only one neutral card for that bet, so a system where you assume all cards that are not of one polarity are of the other polarity is acceptable. It can be treated a lot like the Insurance Count, just with different cards.
But for that I prefer an unbalanced +/- count. Most of my sucker bet counts are unbalanced because they tend to go +EV near the pivot point. But there's one I use balanced because one bet strikes on the + side and another strikes on the - side, and yet another where it goes +EV so soon you're not that close to the pivot point.
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My lucky lucky method is different, it's simpler, and I have the validation sims that show it is just as accurate as the Jacobson and the Steven Howe specialty counts.
... I will share it here if you don't think it's a bad idea, otherwise I will share it with you in private. As I have stated my method allows me to keep my main count intact - so I posit that it is a superior method to the three published specialty counts.
... One of the reasons I say my method is superior to the three published counts is because the three specialty counts all advocate the same tactics - abandon your main count, flatbet the main bet and use basic strategy, and when your lucky lucky count calls for it slam out the sucker bet at whatever size your bankroll and the house rules will allow.
... Now here's the problem with that approach - the casino knows that the lucky lucky can be beat, and they know that the people who can and do beat it flatbet basic strategy and then make the lucky lucky bet when the specialty count provides for it... So using that approach makes you stand out like a sore thumb.
... Using my method, I'm betting big I'm betting small I'm playing one hand I'm playing two hands I'm playing the sucker bet frequently but not every time... I do not fit The stereotype of someone who uses the specialty count to beat lucky lucky.
Quote: Deucekies
Interesting. So how low are you allowed to go on the hand if you have the table minimum met on the bonus? What's stopping you from betting $1 on the hand?
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On a $15 table, or a $25 table even for that matter, I never bet less than $5 on the main bet, I cannot say for sure that you would not be allowed to bet $1, but I kind of feel that's a little too over the top.
... But on a $25 table where two hands require minimum bet of two hands of $25, which is common in Vegas local/stations casinos, I might for example make a two hand bet that consists of 2x10 + 2x50LL in a minus count and as much as 2x100 + 2x100LL in a plus count.
... By the way, for AutoMonk - one of the interesting little surprises the sims revealed is that the lucky lucky very slightly improves in a negative count versus a positive count - not much mind you, but just a little smidgen allowing a slightly more aggressive bet on lucky lucky in a negative count.
... That is so unusual in this day and age that not only do some dealers get tripped up, I've even had four people, pit managers, and even one time the graveyard shift manager get tripped up on it. I just do it to be naughty once in awhile.
Quote: zengrifterOne of my things that I like to do as a naughty little game on the dealer once in a blue moon, is not take even money on my Blackjack and instead by insurance.
... That is so unusual in this day and age that not only do some dealers get tripped up, I've even had four people, pit managers, and even one time the graveyard shift manager get tripped up on it. I just do it to be naughty once in awhile.
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I used to mess with them some times and go "Insurance for More???" and even place the same amount of my initial bet.
One time the dealer let it slide and actually had Blackjack and nearly paid me 2 -1 on the bet, putting me ahead on the hand 2x instead of 1x.
Until a sharp eyed Floor person saw this and quickly corrected the mistake, only paying half the insurance wager!
I also learned in my first year of playing Blackack(before I knew of AP), DO NOT place another bet or leave your initial wager after taking even money until the cards are wiped and all the losing bets are taken! An overzealous dealer paid me my even money for having Blackjack, wiped up all the other bets and then came back around & swooped up my bet for the next hand, thinking she "forgot one".
It was a nasty one as she insisted I lost, but I explained where are my losing cards then? It took about 10 minutes after the camera was checked and she was rather sour towards me the rest of the evening...Lesson learned!
