Casino voids $500 chips and trespasses BJ player

This is a story worth hearing! A casino got robbed of $500 chips so they discontinued them. A frequent BJ player (who also counts cards and wins) brought in $5,000 of $500 chips from home. She pulled one chip out at the table to use and was told they were discontinued and they can't be cashed out. She won $8K during her BJ session and collected 10X $1,000 chips and got the runaround at the cage trying to cash out. The cage wouldn't let her cash out the $500 or $1,000 chips, told her to come back the next day. The police got involved and they were incredulous that a young woman would even have $5,000 in $500 chips. I'm not going to continue on telling the story, that's just the setup for the video, but Gaming sucks.

Casino REFUSES to cash out a card counter!!

Just goes to show that keeping your cool and documenting everything along the way is the best way to deal with casinos when they do not do what you want them to do.

In her case, she was entitled to those chips. The legal action she threatened at the end against both the casino and gaming, would have gone somewhere.

Trying to fight a ban - now that's a situation where the only chance of of reversal is via a soft approach. No private business may be forced to let someone in unless it's on the basis of some recognized discrimination.

Had something similar happen with my partner. They had 13,000 in $500 chips and someone had stolen a bunch of $500 chips a few days before.
The police were called and my partner had to explain why they had the chips and hadn’t cashed them.
Eventually they got paid. What made it more difficult was that they were playing without using a players card.

Casino gets skittish when a player splits tens against a 6 and wants to split again and needs to buy more chips so the pit boss orders the hand killed instead of counting out the cash and giving her more chips. The final compromise was to not let her buy more chips so she couldn't split more hands and to trespass her immediately after the hand.
The thumbnail shows American dollars but the recreation video shows Canadian dollars. It says Viejas on the felt of the thumbnail, so go with the American dollars.

Casino Tries to CHEAT (Card Counting Disaster)

This is an adventure trip across parts of America to play black jack for profit. They keep getting backed off when they win though, and sometimes even when they don't win that much or when they just walk in the door. And finally, they get backed off when they make a long-winded comeback but are still way down. As the title says they ended up in a cop car somewhere too for winning too much in chips.

I'm really going to have to lower my win goals per session.

Casino Calls the Cops on me for Counting Cards

I've been playing for a long time and have endured many backoffs and bannings by casino security. Rude, cursing, firearms, physical contact, attempted backrooming, all of that. Returned to properties I've been trespassed from many times, and I've used some edgy moves that could liberally be interpreted as cheat. But never at a casino have I been arrested, detained, or escorted by police. It makes me wonder what they really did to get into that situation. Somebody screwed up when that happens. It doesn't mean it was the counters who screwed up, but police don't like being called for things that aren't crimes, everyone who works in a job where you sometimes call the police knows that, and it's not something that should happen even with very aggressive play like this.

A similar situation happened to me at the Red Rock casino. However, I was cashing the chips for a blackjack team that had decided to disband. I had about $8,000 worth of a discontinued style of $500 chip. Yes, Vegas casinos are allowed to discontinue chips. There is a process for it, where they have to honor them for some period of time after make an announcement about it, which I doubt anybody reads.

It was my plan to cash them at the blackjack table for smaller chips, play a little and then take good chips to the cage. This worked for a while until the Red Rock refused to honor them, but neither did they seize them. Fortunately, this all happened close to the Super Bowl, so I easily bet the rest of the chips at the sports book, who took them without any fuss. I think the sports book didn't know they were discontinued.

As to the video, I watched only the first few minutes. Does she ever say where this happened?

Quote: Wizard

A similar situation happened to me at the Red Rock casino. However, I was cashing the chips for a blackjack team that had decided to disband. I had about $8,000 worth of a discontinued style of $500 chip. Yes, Vegas casinos are allowed to discontinue chips. There is a process for it, where they have to honor them for some period of time after make an announcement about it, which I doubt anybody reads.

It was my plan to cash them at the blackjack table for smaller chips, play a little and then take good chips to the cage. This worked for a while until the Red Rock refused to honor them, but neither did they seize them. Fortunately, this all happened close to the Super Bowl, so I easily bet the rest of the chips at the sports book, who took them without any fuss. I think the sports book didn't know they were discontinued.

As to the video, I watched only the first few minutes. Does she ever say where this happened?
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It was in Canada, Vancouver I believe she said .

I know her name but have never seen her in person. Yes she hails from Canada. She claims to be part of a team of 5 that plays BlackJack all over North America.


They have a presence on YouTube and Instagram, here is a video of one of them splitting aces to four hands, 1200 or so a pop, losing 3/4 hands to dealer 21, at Cosmo Vegas:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Czv891UrKmB/

(The hand is what it is, with a 6 up was played perfectly - but what is interesting are the comments below, such as
"That’s why you play free bet. Play with house money"
"Should've known when you seen the blue nail polish [of the dealer]"
"Stop after 3 [splits] always"
"Should have double that soft 14"
"why wouldn’t he double on the soft hands smh 🤦🏼‍♂️"
"Wouldn’t he have been better off just standing?"
"Better chance is to let the dealer bust"
"Why did you stand on all those? That was you dumb mistake!"
"Don’t split more than twice"
"Did he not win the first hand as BJ? Ace and 10?"
"Why didn't he get paid for the Black Jack"
"Bro what, noted I'll never split 4 aces 😂😂😂"
"Can't split aces more than once"
"Why did he stand on the other hands wtf!"
"She took a push! The last hand was a 20!"
"Remember hearing something about not splitting aces and eights."
"Only supposed to do it twice"
"Never split aces more than once."
"Got too greedy with it! 4 splits was too much, wait another round"
"It's a Trap strategy from the casino, it happens 90% of the time that you will lose when constantly splitting Aces hehe"

Loved this one:
"Sometimes you gotta make the wrong move to win big - just saying, they don’t want you to hear this but when the game isn’t going the right way - hit on 17 and see what happens after that."

A few comments I DID like were:
"Only split if you're gonna win!.😂"

"That's exactly why I stopped gambling. The house always wins."

"$3600 lost. I would find the tallest tree and shortest rope." )


If she is 20 years old, then she couldn't be playing in Vegas however (18 - 19 is allowed in Canada).

Maybe she "simplified" the labels she used in the video, because I don't believe Gaming is exactly called Gaming in Canada. I know they have for example an Alcohol and Gaming Commission in Ontario, and then in Vancouver, British Columbia Gaming Policy and Enforcement Branch.

Part of what her team does is offer to teach people to be Advantage Players, via online, for a small fee.

Getting banned from casinos for counting cards and varying bets according to the counts.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C_s53YZPOfT/

4 year backoff: They wouldn’t let me go to my hotel room to get my stuff (I learned a lot about how to handle aggressive back offs from this experience) I called Rick, he cleared our stuff out of the room.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C-iSZoFPg5S/

Security following her out of the parking garage after a win.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C_dgf6UPlvb/

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You've gotta be ready to make 8 bets in a hand with splits and double downs across. Is buying in mid-hand against the rules? Are hands killed for buying in mid-hand normally? I guess it helps to keep some extra chips in your pocket because cash is a bit more of a distraction when buying in mid-hand.

I was at one BJ table and the pit asked a player if he bought his chips with cash at the table that day or if he brought the chips from home. The pit was probably trying to figure out the buy-in for the Player's Card but he wanted to know the source of the chips. I don't know if it matters if you bring chips from home but the tone of his voice made me wonder if it did matter.

Good Information

I have been 86'ed from over 20 casinos and backed-roomed about 7 times for Advantage Play.

I was wrongfully arrested and jailed one time.

I sued one casino for roughing me up and false imprisonment, this was back before people were getting big paydays from casinos related to false imprisonment. I walked away with less than 25k. Bob (Bob Nersesian) was new to the casino false imprisonment stuff.

I have had to deal with Gaming Control multiple times.

90% of the time Gaming Control has ruled on my side and instructed the casinos to pay the disputed amounts.

I have never gambled in a Canadian B&M casino.

Quote: AxelWolf

90% of the time Gaming Control has ruled on my side and instructed the casinos to pay the disputed amounts.

I have never gambled in a Canadian B&M casino.

I dealt with Nevada Gaming Control three times before I started working with them. They were always fair and understanding with me.

Quote: ChumpChange

I was at one BJ table and the pit asked a player if he bought his chips with cash at the table that day or if he brought the chips from home. The pit was probably trying to figure out the buy-in for the Player's Card but he wanted to know the source of the chips. I don't know if it matters if you bring chips from home but the tone of his voice made me wonder if it did matter.
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Probably trying to figure out the buy-in/starting point for both the player's club and for their own tracking. Floors generally need to be able to account for all the chips in the tray and on the table. If the shift comes over and asks him "How much is that player up or down?", he needs to have some idea.

Quote: Wizard

A similar situation happened to me at the Red Rock casino. However, I was cashing the chips for a blackjack team that had decided to disband. I had about $8,000 worth of a discontinued style of $500 chip. Yes, Vegas casinos are allowed to discontinue chips. There is a process for it, where they have to honor them for some period of time after make an announcement about it, which I doubt anybody reads.

It was my plan to cash them at the blackjack table for smaller chips, play a little and then take good chips to the cage. This worked for a while until the Red Rock refused to honor them, but neither did they seize them. Fortunately, this all happened close to the Super Bowl, so I easily bet the rest of the chips at the sports book, who took them without any fuss. I think the sports book didn't know they were discontinued.

As to the video, I watched only the first few minutes. Does she ever say where this happened?
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You were a mule?! :o

And lol the casino's left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing

It's all fun and games until you get banned on your way out the door.
"Our table games felt you have the ability to count and do real well at cards, so we're gonna ban you from the casino."

Card Counter Gets Banned for Winning Big *Raw Footage*

I think the whole I’m calling gaming and my lawyer line is kind of old and useless. They couldn’t care less. What is your lawyer or gaming going to do? A few years ago a sportsbook in Atlantic City (perhaps the most player protected jurisdiction) wouldn’t cash out my tickets without ID. So I asked if there was a gaming agent on the premises or how do I contact them. The guy said ok you go out this door and walk down the boardwalk to Tennessee Ave, that’s where gaming is. They don’t care. Then when gaming conducted their investigation the book blatantly lied. Gaming can’t even force them to do anything. They merely issue a legal opinion as to whether the casino is violating regulations.

BTW this group was on the Blackjack Apprenticeship podcast a couple months ago and it was a great episode. Definitely a top 10 gambling episode I’ve listened to.

Quote: Sandybestdog

I think the whole I’m calling gaming and my lawyer line is kind of old and useless. They couldn’t care less. What is your lawyer or gaming going to do? A few years ago a sportsbook in Atlantic City (perhaps the most player protected jurisdiction) wouldn’t cash out my tickets without ID. So I asked if there was a gaming agent on the premises or how do I contact them. The guy said ok you go out this door and walk down the boardwalk to Tennessee Ave, that’s where gaming is. They don’t care. Then when gaming conducted their investigation the book blatantly lied. Gaming can’t even force them to do anything. They merely issue a legal opinion as to whether the casino is violating regulations.

BTW this group was on the Blackjack Apprenticeship podcast a couple months ago and it was a great episode. Definitely a top 10 gambling episode I’ve listened to.
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But you didn't follow through. You have to hire an attorney and or go to the proper court yourself.

I had a situation Two years ago where Servpro came in to fix flood damage. They came back two days later, removed the equipment and said finished. The basement looked exactly the same. Same as you I threatened to sue, contacted the BBB and they just laughed it off.

Finally went to small claims (it was about $5000) and filed. Got a phone call from their attorney. Sent him my evidence. He returned my call and said they would be sending a check for my refund.

Nome of these companies are scared of you or gaming or any other protection agency. But court, they fear if you got the evidence. (As for them lying when it's under oath, suddenly plain employees don't want to testify. Their jobs aren't worth their license and fines)

Well it didn’t get to that point. I’m sure once/if filed with a court they would look at their options more seriously. In my case since gaming basically said they didn’t violate any regulations(because the casino lied to them about what happened), I just decided to go cash the tickets. It was funny cause I go to the counter. The manager was packing up for the night and said oh you tried to cash these a few months ago? Oh I fired all those people. I never ended up showing ID. Not that it really mattered at that point.

Also one possible minor point about disputes cashing tickets. If you don’t live near where you bought them and then they refuse to cash and then you contact gaming, this can take a few months. If you did then want to take legal action it could be approaching the expiration date of the tickets/vouchers. In this situation it ended up being a 6 or 8 month ordeal. Getting a lawyer or court involved would have been past a year.

Quote: Sandybestdog

Well it didn’t get to that point. I’m sure once/if filed with a court they would look at their options more seriously. In my case since gaming basically said they didn’t violate any regulations(because the casino lied to them about what happened), I just decided to go cash the tickets. It was funny cause I go to the counter. The manager was packing up for the night and said oh you tried to cash these a few months ago? Oh I fired all those people. I never ended up showing ID. Not that it really mattered at that point.

Also one possible minor point about disputes cashing tickets. If you don’t live near where you bought them and then they refuse to cash and then you contact gaming, this can take a few months. If you did then want to take legal action it could be approaching the expiration date of the tickets/vouchers. In this situation it ended up being a 6 or 8 month ordeal. Getting a lawyer or court involved would have been past a year.
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Yes your last point is one to consider. I do think if you win the casino would be liable for the money expiration or not. Otherwise they will always try to run the clock down.

Such a tactic would be antithetical to gaming imo as well as the courts. You probably could cite that in your court papers as a reason for an expedited trial.

Yas, and if it were on the level of this quality of legal reasoning,
COACH CHALLENGE RULING APPEAL
how could it fail?

Quote: MDawg

Yas, and if it were on the level of this quality of legal reasoning,
COACH CHALLENGE RULING APPEAL
how could it fail?
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Lawyer gives bad advice

Shocking (not)

Quote: MDawg

Yas, and if it were on the level of this quality of legal reasoning,
COACH CHALLENGE RULING APPEAL
how could it fail?
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You going for childish trolling post of the year? Ok, you win.

If you want to be useful feel free to give the poster some advice. Bringing up your juvenile spat with DarkOz does no one any good.

That was my advice. If you don’t think it was useful you didn’t understand the post.