Casino voids $500 chips and trespasses BJ player

This is a story worth hearing! A casino got robbed of $500 chips so they discontinued them. A frequent BJ player (who also counts cards and wins) brought in $5,000 of $500 chips from home. She pulled one chip out at the table to use and was told they were discontinued and they can't be cashed out. She won $8K during her BJ session and collected 10X $1,000 chips and got the runaround at the cage trying to cash out. The cage wouldn't let her cash out the $500 or $1,000 chips, told her to come back the next day. The police got involved and they were incredulous that a young woman would even have $5,000 in $500 chips. I'm not going to continue on telling the story, that's just the setup for the video, but Gaming sucks.

Casino REFUSES to cash out a card counter!!

Just goes to show that keeping your cool and documenting everything along the way is the best way to deal with casinos when they do not do what you want them to do.

In her case, she was entitled to those chips. The legal action she threatened at the end against both the casino and gaming, would have gone somewhere.

Trying to fight a ban - now that's a situation where the only chance of of reversal is via a soft approach. No private business may be forced to let someone in unless it's on the basis of some recognized discrimination.

Had something similar happen with my partner. They had 13,000 in $500 chips and someone had stolen a bunch of $500 chips a few days before.
The police were called and my partner had to explain why they had the chips and hadn’t cashed them.
Eventually they got paid. What made it more difficult was that they were playing without using a players card.

Casino gets skittish when a player splits tens against a 6 and wants to split again and needs to buy more chips so the pit boss orders the hand killed instead of counting out the cash and giving her more chips. The final compromise was to not let her buy more chips so she couldn't split more hands and to trespass her immediately after the hand.
The thumbnail shows American dollars but the recreation video shows Canadian dollars. It says Viejas on the felt of the thumbnail, so go with the American dollars.

Casino Tries to CHEAT (Card Counting Disaster)

This is an adventure trip across parts of America to play black jack for profit. They keep getting backed off when they win though, and sometimes even when they don't win that much or when they just walk in the door. And finally, they get backed off when they make a long-winded comeback but are still way down. As the title says they ended up in a cop car somewhere too for winning too much in chips.

I'm really going to have to lower my win goals per session.

Casino Calls the Cops on me for Counting Cards

I've been playing for a long time and have endured many backoffs and bannings by casino security. Rude, cursing, firearms, physical contact, attempted backrooming, all of that. Returned to properties I've been trespassed from many times, and I've used some edgy moves that could liberally be interpreted as cheat. But never at a casino have I been arrested, detained, or escorted by police. It makes me wonder what they really did to get into that situation. Somebody screwed up when that happens. It doesn't mean it was the counters who screwed up, but police don't like being called for things that aren't crimes, everyone who works in a job where you sometimes call the police knows that, and it's not something that should happen even with very aggressive play like this.

A similar situation happened to me at the Red Rock casino. However, I was cashing the chips for a blackjack team that had decided to disband. I had about $8,000 worth of a discontinued style of $500 chip. Yes, Vegas casinos are allowed to discontinue chips. There is a process for it, where they have to honor them for some period of time after make an announcement about it, which I doubt anybody reads.

It was my plan to cash them at the blackjack table for smaller chips, play a little and then take good chips to the cage. This worked for a while until the Red Rock refused to honor them, but neither did they seize them. Fortunately, this all happened close to the Super Bowl, so I easily bet the rest of the chips at the sports book, who took them without any fuss. I think the sports book didn't know they were discontinued.

As to the video, I watched only the first few minutes. Does she ever say where this happened?

Quote: Wizard

A similar situation happened to me at the Red Rock casino. However, I was cashing the chips for a blackjack team that had decided to disband. I had about $8,000 worth of a discontinued style of $500 chip. Yes, Vegas casinos are allowed to discontinue chips. There is a process for it, where they have to honor them for some period of time after make an announcement about it, which I doubt anybody reads.

It was my plan to cash them at the blackjack table for smaller chips, play a little and then take good chips to the cage. This worked for a while until the Red Rock refused to honor them, but neither did they seize them. Fortunately, this all happened close to the Super Bowl, so I easily bet the rest of the chips at the sports book, who took them without any fuss. I think the sports book didn't know they were discontinued.

As to the video, I watched only the first few minutes. Does she ever say where this happened?
link to original post

It was in Canada, Vancouver I believe she said .

I know her name but have never seen her in person. Yes she hails from Canada. She claims to be part of a team of 5 that plays BlackJack all over North America.


They have a presence on YouTube and Instagram, here is a video of one of them splitting aces to four hands, 1200 or so a pop, losing 3/4 hands to dealer 21, at Cosmo Vegas:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Czv891UrKmB/

(The hand is what it is, with a 6 up was played perfectly - but what is interesting are the comments below, such as
"That’s why you play free bet. Play with house money"
"Should've known when you seen the blue nail polish [of the dealer]"
"Stop after 3 [splits] always"
"Should have double that soft 14"
"why wouldn’t he double on the soft hands smh 🤦🏼‍♂️"
"Wouldn’t he have been better off just standing?"
"Better chance is to let the dealer bust"
"Why did you stand on all those? That was you dumb mistake!"
"Don’t split more than twice"
"Did he not win the first hand as BJ? Ace and 10?"
"Why didn't he get paid for the Black Jack"
"Bro what, noted I'll never split 4 aces 😂😂😂"
"Can't split aces more than once"
"Why did he stand on the other hands wtf!"
"She took a push! The last hand was a 20!"
"Remember hearing something about not splitting aces and eights."
"Only supposed to do it twice"
"Never split aces more than once."
"Got too greedy with it! 4 splits was too much, wait another round"
"It's a Trap strategy from the casino, it happens 90% of the time that you will lose when constantly splitting Aces hehe"

Loved this one:
"Sometimes you gotta make the wrong move to win big - just saying, they don’t want you to hear this but when the game isn’t going the right way - hit on 17 and see what happens after that."

A few comments I DID like were:
"Only split if you're gonna win!.😂"

"That's exactly why I stopped gambling. The house always wins."

"$3600 lost. I would find the tallest tree and shortest rope." )


If she is 20 years old, then she couldn't be playing in Vegas however (18 - 19 is allowed in Canada).

Maybe she "simplified" the labels she used in the video, because I don't believe Gaming is exactly called Gaming in Canada. I know they have for example an Alcohol and Gaming Commission in Ontario, and then in Vancouver, British Columbia Gaming Policy and Enforcement Branch.

Part of what her team does is offer to teach people to be Advantage Players, via online, for a small fee.

Getting banned from casinos for counting cards and varying bets according to the counts.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C_s53YZPOfT/

4 year backoff: They wouldn’t let me go to my hotel room to get my stuff (I learned a lot about how to handle aggressive back offs from this experience) I called Rick, he cleared our stuff out of the room.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C-iSZoFPg5S/

Security following her out of the parking garage after a win.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C_dgf6UPlvb/

**************************************************
You've gotta be ready to make 8 bets in a hand with splits and double downs across. Is buying in mid-hand against the rules? Are hands killed for buying in mid-hand normally? I guess it helps to keep some extra chips in your pocket because cash is a bit more of a distraction when buying in mid-hand.

I was at one BJ table and the pit asked a player if he bought his chips with cash at the table that day or if he brought the chips from home. The pit was probably trying to figure out the buy-in for the Player's Card but he wanted to know the source of the chips. I don't know if it matters if you bring chips from home but the tone of his voice made me wonder if it did matter.

Good Information

I have been 86'ed from over 20 casinos and backed-roomed about 7 times for Advantage Play.

I was wrongfully arrested and jailed one time.

I sued one casino for roughing me up and false imprisonment, this was back before people were getting big paydays from casinos related to false imprisonment. I walked away with less than 25k. Bob (Bob Nersesian) was new to the casino false imprisonment stuff.

I have had to deal with Gaming Control multiple times.

90% of the time Gaming Control has ruled on my side and instructed the casinos to pay the disputed amounts.

I have never gambled in a Canadian B&M casino.

Quote: AxelWolf

90% of the time Gaming Control has ruled on my side and instructed the casinos to pay the disputed amounts.

I have never gambled in a Canadian B&M casino.

I dealt with Nevada Gaming Control three times before I started working with them. They were always fair and understanding with me.

Quote: ChumpChange

I was at one BJ table and the pit asked a player if he bought his chips with cash at the table that day or if he brought the chips from home. The pit was probably trying to figure out the buy-in for the Player's Card but he wanted to know the source of the chips. I don't know if it matters if you bring chips from home but the tone of his voice made me wonder if it did matter.
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Probably trying to figure out the buy-in/starting point for both the player's club and for their own tracking. Floors generally need to be able to account for all the chips in the tray and on the table. If the shift comes over and asks him "How much is that player up or down?", he needs to have some idea.

Quote: Wizard

A similar situation happened to me at the Red Rock casino. However, I was cashing the chips for a blackjack team that had decided to disband. I had about $8,000 worth of a discontinued style of $500 chip. Yes, Vegas casinos are allowed to discontinue chips. There is a process for it, where they have to honor them for some period of time after make an announcement about it, which I doubt anybody reads.

It was my plan to cash them at the blackjack table for smaller chips, play a little and then take good chips to the cage. This worked for a while until the Red Rock refused to honor them, but neither did they seize them. Fortunately, this all happened close to the Super Bowl, so I easily bet the rest of the chips at the sports book, who took them without any fuss. I think the sports book didn't know they were discontinued.

As to the video, I watched only the first few minutes. Does she ever say where this happened?
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You were a mule?! :o

And lol the casino's left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing

It's all fun and games until you get banned on your way out the door.
"Our table games felt you have the ability to count and do real well at cards, so we're gonna ban you from the casino."

Card Counter Gets Banned for Winning Big *Raw Footage*

I think the whole I’m calling gaming and my lawyer line is kind of old and useless. They couldn’t care less. What is your lawyer or gaming going to do? A few years ago a sportsbook in Atlantic City (perhaps the most player protected jurisdiction) wouldn’t cash out my tickets without ID. So I asked if there was a gaming agent on the premises or how do I contact them. The guy said ok you go out this door and walk down the boardwalk to Tennessee Ave, that’s where gaming is. They don’t care. Then when gaming conducted their investigation the book blatantly lied. Gaming can’t even force them to do anything. They merely issue a legal opinion as to whether the casino is violating regulations.

BTW this group was on the Blackjack Apprenticeship podcast a couple months ago and it was a great episode. Definitely a top 10 gambling episode I’ve listened to.

Quote: Sandybestdog

I think the whole I’m calling gaming and my lawyer line is kind of old and useless. They couldn’t care less. What is your lawyer or gaming going to do? A few years ago a sportsbook in Atlantic City (perhaps the most player protected jurisdiction) wouldn’t cash out my tickets without ID. So I asked if there was a gaming agent on the premises or how do I contact them. The guy said ok you go out this door and walk down the boardwalk to Tennessee Ave, that’s where gaming is. They don’t care. Then when gaming conducted their investigation the book blatantly lied. Gaming can’t even force them to do anything. They merely issue a legal opinion as to whether the casino is violating regulations.

BTW this group was on the Blackjack Apprenticeship podcast a couple months ago and it was a great episode. Definitely a top 10 gambling episode I’ve listened to.
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But you didn't follow through. You have to hire an attorney and or go to the proper court yourself.

I had a situation Two years ago where Servpro came in to fix flood damage. They came back two days later, removed the equipment and said finished. The basement looked exactly the same. Same as you I threatened to sue, contacted the BBB and they just laughed it off.

Finally went to small claims (it was about $5000) and filed. Got a phone call from their attorney. Sent him my evidence. He returned my call and said they would be sending a check for my refund.

Nome of these companies are scared of you or gaming or any other protection agency. But court, they fear if you got the evidence. (As for them lying when it's under oath, suddenly plain employees don't want to testify. Their jobs aren't worth their license and fines)

Well it didn’t get to that point. I’m sure once/if filed with a court they would look at their options more seriously. In my case since gaming basically said they didn’t violate any regulations(because the casino lied to them about what happened), I just decided to go cash the tickets. It was funny cause I go to the counter. The manager was packing up for the night and said oh you tried to cash these a few months ago? Oh I fired all those people. I never ended up showing ID. Not that it really mattered at that point.

Also one possible minor point about disputes cashing tickets. If you don’t live near where you bought them and then they refuse to cash and then you contact gaming, this can take a few months. If you did then want to take legal action it could be approaching the expiration date of the tickets/vouchers. In this situation it ended up being a 6 or 8 month ordeal. Getting a lawyer or court involved would have been past a year.

Quote: Sandybestdog

Well it didn’t get to that point. I’m sure once/if filed with a court they would look at their options more seriously. In my case since gaming basically said they didn’t violate any regulations(because the casino lied to them about what happened), I just decided to go cash the tickets. It was funny cause I go to the counter. The manager was packing up for the night and said oh you tried to cash these a few months ago? Oh I fired all those people. I never ended up showing ID. Not that it really mattered at that point.

Also one possible minor point about disputes cashing tickets. If you don’t live near where you bought them and then they refuse to cash and then you contact gaming, this can take a few months. If you did then want to take legal action it could be approaching the expiration date of the tickets/vouchers. In this situation it ended up being a 6 or 8 month ordeal. Getting a lawyer or court involved would have been past a year.
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Yes your last point is one to consider. I do think if you win the casino would be liable for the money expiration or not. Otherwise they will always try to run the clock down.

Such a tactic would be antithetical to gaming imo as well as the courts. You probably could cite that in your court papers as a reason for an expedited trial.

Yas, and if it were on the level of this quality of legal reasoning,
COACH CHALLENGE RULING APPEAL
how could it fail?

Quote: MDawg

Yas, and if it were on the level of this quality of legal reasoning,
COACH CHALLENGE RULING APPEAL
how could it fail?
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Lawyer gives bad advice

Shocking (not)

Quote: MDawg

Yas, and if it were on the level of this quality of legal reasoning,
COACH CHALLENGE RULING APPEAL
how could it fail?
link to original post

You going for childish trolling post of the year? Ok, you win.

If you want to be useful feel free to give the poster some advice. Bringing up your juvenile spat with DarkOz does no one any good.

That was my advice. If you don’t think it was useful you didn’t understand the post.

Goodyear and Andrea are back in Vegas, in disguise. In part one, Andrea goes on big losing streaks and since she's Canadian she can't buy-in for more than $10,000 in Vegas per casino. The casino won't fill out a CTR on her with just a passport, so they won't accept anymore cash from her. About 16+ minutes in she's being escorted out and being read the trespass act and told she will be subject to a misdemeanor if she enters a bunch of casinos the man lists off verbally. I don't know if it's because she lost $14,800 in 190 minutes at the casino which is more than $10K or something else like switching up her bets from $25 to $2,000 and back. But that's a lot of casinos she was just banned from.

Female Card Counters Take on Las Vegas - Part One


If I was trying to keep under a $10K buy-in limit, I'd have three $3,250 session buy-ins at the $100 table. It could last me quite awhile, maybe even days or weeks, idk.

Quote: ChumpChange

Goodyear and Andrea are back in Vegas, in disguise. In part one, Andrea goes on big losing streaks and since she's Canadian she can't buy-in for more than $10,000 in Vegas per casino. The casino won't fill out a CTR on her with just a passport, so they won't accept anymore cash from her. About 16+ minutes in she's being escorted out and being read the trespass act and told she will be subject to a misdemeanor if she enters a bunch of casinos the man lists off verbally. I don't know if it's because she lost $14,800 in 190 minutes at the casino which is more than $10K or something else like switching up her bets from $25 to $2,000 and back. But that's a lot of casinos she was just banned from.

Female Card Counters Take on Las Vegas - Part One


If I was trying to keep under a $10K buy-in limit, I'd have three $3,250 session buy-ins at the $100 table. It could last me quite awhile, maybe even days or weeks, idk.
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I feel sick when I watch these videos. Seriously. I feel like I've just watched perversion.

Wrong games, wrong stores, wrong methods, wrong approach. Just a whole bunch of wrong.

Care to elaborate? I'm not a card counter but seems to me like they're playing a winning game. Also of course they receive revenue from their social media videos.

I appreciate these undercover card counter videos that help explain the card counter betting systems and lifestyle, but they rarely end without a backoff. That's like getting thrown out of a bank or a hotel or a club/bar. It carries legal risk to return. After so many backoffs you end up with fewer and fewer places to play within so many hundreds of miles of where you live. I can't endorse this betting system because of the casino prohibition against players who attempt it even at the red chip level for extremely small stakes.

If you listen to the blackjack apprenticeship podcast literally every guest/story ends with a backoff. It’s literally the name of the game. If you watch this video, some of the happened fairly quickly, under an hour. It’s not like they were camping for days. Places like AC that can’t kick you out will still flyer you and basically make you feel unwelcome enough to leave. They will also limit you to 10x the table minimum. So that would usually mean a max bet of $250

The good news of course is there are lots of casinos and as long as you stay under $10k you usually can play unrated. The problem is once you get flyered/databased it limits other things you can do. I don’t believe I’m in a database but I was flyered a long time ago. I was literally playing red chips. Doesn’t matter. Now there’s a few casinos (not a lot) that I can’t play slots at because of that. So I wish I could go back and never use a card at a table. These girls are barely 21. In 5-10 years if they want to play slots or poker or even an online sports betting account, they may not be able to.

Casinos are more and more demanding Player's Cards or Driver License/ID when you play a table game or buy-in/cash out more than $2K-$3K, even $1K. Card counters getting booted for not having ID on them in the casino is really making them paranoid. "Oh, if I don't show them ID, they can't flyer me! But they'll kick me out and won't let me cash-out despite not having anywhere near $10K. I can't stay at a hotel where I'll be playing because I'll be trespassed for sure!" I could go on, but hearing/seeing these backoffs on YouTube is an eye-opening experience for players who hope to never encounter those situations.

Quote: Sandybestdog

Care to elaborate? I'm not a card counter but seems to me like they're playing a winning game. Also of course they receive revenue from their social media videos.
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We can start off with where they were playing. That backoff happened at Harrah's on the Strip. They were playing straight blackjack, and outside of high limit rooms there are only 2 or 3 playable straight blackjack games on the Strip, and none of them are Harrah's. Inside of high limit rooms surveillance is concentrated, and you can spread for a brief period of time like they did but it's going to end up like it did for them. That's like being fired on your first day on the job, how can you have a career like that? There actually is something an advanced counter can do at Harrah's and get away with and I do it all the time, because the drinks are so strong there and it's right next to White Castle, but it's never discussed. That's why these videos remind me of pornography. It includes stuff you shouldn't do, and if you indeed do such things, it's nothing to be proud of and you shouldn't publicize it.

Then I see them spreading at Station and Boyd casinos. Those are the "locals' places." They also have some very good games, and you will be backed off and banned from the whole chain in 10 minutes if you misplay them. Why do that? Just play them with skill and finesse, don't obsess with big spreads on a straight BJ game, and be prepared to come back tomorrow.

Furtive filming at the table. How can they prove they are not using their phones and video as a cheat device during the game? They can't, and eventually they are going to get caught doing that and an issue will be made of it, not because the casino really thinks they are cheating, but because they can.

Backoffs aren't funny. Avoid anything having to do with casino management or security. Those security departments hire former police who have been fired for brutality or other performance issues. Big ego, low IQ, terrible judgment. Being young females they won't get the treatment I would get, but you know exactly what they might get and given the facts on the ground in security departments, not just from males either. One day they may find themselves handcuffed in a back room with some battle axe moistening her fingers at their expense. Then they get framed up for a felony to justify the detention and physical treatment. Inexperienced people might think a security guard treating them badly is in big trouble now, you're going to sue the establishment for what they're doing, but in reality they have it backwards: they've done this before, and if they're doing it to you that means they think they already have something they can pin on you to keep themselves out of trouble, and it is actually you who is in big trouble. So never let yourself be part of it- don't attract attention and if you find yourself in receipt of such attention, get out of there and get your feet on a public street ASAP.

Quote: ChumpChange

I appreciate these undercover card counter videos that help explain the card counter betting systems and lifestyle, but they rarely end without a backoff. That's like getting thrown out of a bank or a hotel or a club/bar. It carries legal risk to return. After so many backoffs you end up with fewer and fewer places to play within so many hundreds of miles of where you live. I can't endorse this betting system because of the casino prohibition against players who attempt it even at the red chip level for extremely small stakes.
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I think a low to mid stakes counter can still exist in Las Vegas just because of the number of places to play, My guess is that a player can average a couple hundred a day profit if they hit and run a lot playing $25 to $150 spread at three casinos per day. Probably only going to be able to play 30 to 60 minutes per session to keep the plays alive .

Here's another player, Quattro, who made a night out of getting kicked out of every Las Vegas casino he entered (but one, he left a full table early), big bets or not.
Last minute luck on a few BJ's put him far ahead, but the pit phones were deployed before that happened at the end.
There must be a distinction between a sweaty casino backing off just winners versus just backing off card counters.
Management doesn't even mention why they are kicking you out, they just are.
And, if you are in the hotel as a guest, you are no longer a guest.
Trespasses only last 2 years in Vegas, so walking out with small sums will not be a lifestyle of the rich and famous.

Advantaged Blackjack Player Banned For Counting Cards

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Quote: Sandybestdog

Care to elaborate? I'm not a card counter but seems to me like they're playing a winning game. Also of course they receive revenue from their social media videos.
link to original post

We can start off with where they were playing. That backoff happened at Harrah's on the Strip. They were playing straight blackjack, and outside of high limit rooms there are only 2 or 3 playable straight blackjack games on the Strip, and none of them are Harrah's. Inside of high limit rooms surveillance is concentrated, and you can spread for a brief period of time like they did but it's going to end up like it did for them. That's like being fired on your first day on the job, how can you have a career like that? There actually is something an advanced counter can do at Harrah's and get away with and I do it all the time, because the drinks are so strong there and it's right next to White Castle, but it's never discussed. That's why these videos remind me of pornography. It includes stuff you shouldn't do, and if you indeed do such things, it's nothing to be proud of and you shouldn't publicize it.

Then I see them spreading at Station and Boyd casinos. Those are the "locals' places." They also have some very good games, and you will be backed off and banned from the whole chain in 10 minutes if you misplay them. Why do that? Just play them with skill and finesse, don't obsess with big spreads on a straight BJ game, and be prepared to come back tomorrow.

Furtive filming at the table. How can they prove they are not using their phones and video as a cheat device during the game? They can't, and eventually they are going to get caught doing that and an issue will be made of it, not because the casino really thinks they are cheating, but because they can.

Backoffs aren't funny. Avoid anything having to do with casino management or security. Those security departments hire former police who have been fired for brutality or other performance issues. Big ego, low IQ, terrible judgment. Being young females they won't get the treatment I would get, but you know exactly what they might get and given the facts on the ground in security departments, not just from males either. One day they may find themselves handcuffed in a back room with some battle axe moistening her fingers at their expense. Then they get framed up for a felony to justify the detention and physical treatment. Inexperienced people might think a security guard treating them badly is in big trouble now, you're going to sue the establishment for what they're doing, but in reality they have it backwards: they've done this before, and if they're doing it to you that means they think they already have something they can pin on you to keep themselves out of trouble, and it is actually you who is in big trouble. So never let yourself be part of it- don't attract attention and if you find yourself in receipt of such attention, get out of there and get your feet on a public street ASAP.
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So basically you’re saying they shouldn’t do what they’re doing because it will lead to a backoff. So why bother doing anything in life with an approach like that? First you say they shouldn’t play on the strip cause there’s no games there. Then you say they shouldn’t play at locals places cause they can’t take the action. So what’s your solution? The only possible change I could possibly suggest is that they just bet too much. No one has still pointed out any real flaws in their game.

You hear stories of people betting big but how much of that is really happening? I’ve gone to dozens of casinos for years now. I literally can’t remember one time ever seeing anyone betting more than a few hundred on a hand. Even casinos that make $10-20M a month totally sweat any action. That’s just how they are. They don’t want someone coming in betting $2000 a hand. They want 3 people to buy in for $200, play $25 a hand with $5 on the 3 side bets until they bust out.

So the problem is really just the action, not the counting. No casino employee has ever been fired because a losing bettor never came back cause they were improperly backed off. But they have been because someone got lucky and won 10 bets and cashed out $25k ahead.

Anyways in Vegas now, a trespass only lasts a couple of years now. I’ll say they have solid nerves. I’ve only been backed off a few times and it was years ago. Each time I would be really worked up for hours and days afterwards. It’s not a pleasant experience. Last year was the first time. It was actually not in a casino. I just quickly got in my car and drove in circles for 2 hours till I calmed down.