Counting cards

I'm not a pro but have always wondered why players banned in Vegas don't just come to NJ where it's illegal to ban counters?

Quote: Jeff571966

I'm not a pro but have always wondered why players banned in Vegas don't just come to NJ where it's illegal to ban counters?
link to original post

Because since they can't ban counters they can do other anti-counting rules that prevent card counting.

For example they can shuffle the deck after every hand, use automatic shuffling machines or flat bet a suspected card counter so he can't raise his bet when optimal.

In the end it's better to fight where the advantage is than where it's pretty much negated.

The games are just trash in the first place. 2 decks cut off an 8 deck is the standard shoe game, 1.8 off a six deck is the standard shoe game. Better games pretty much anywhere else in the northeast if you’re already in the region. Pretty much nowhere allows unrated players to bet more than 10x table minimum’s at most as well.

That’s before you get to everything else like Darkoz mentioned above.

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Jeff571966

I'm not a pro but have always wondered why players banned in Vegas don't just come to NJ where it's illegal to ban counters?
link to original post

Because since they can't ban counters they can do other anti-counting rules that prevent card counting.

For example they can shuffle the deck after every hand, use automatic shuffling machines or flat bet a suspected card counter so he can't raise his bet when optimal.

In the end it's better to fight where the advantage is than where it's pretty much negated.
link to original post

Minor correction, I believe you mean continuous shuffle machine instead of automatic? Automatic would generally be preferred by most counters due to more hands per hour than a hand shuffle.

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Jeff571966

I'm not a pro but have always wondered why players banned in Vegas don't just come to NJ where it's illegal to ban counters?
link to original post

Because since they can't ban counters they can do other anti-counting rules that prevent card counting.

For example they can shuffle the deck after every hand, use automatic shuffling machines or flat bet a suspected card counter so he can't raise his bet when optimal.

In the end it's better to fight where the advantage is than where it's pretty much negated.
link to original post

At one place with single deck, they hand shuffle after every hand.
Table min is $15 and pays 6:5.
$10 8deck bj is also 6:5.

$15 3:2 csm bj is a few tables over.
$25 3:2 8deck s17 bj is in another pit.

I don't understand why people are at the single deck.
And sometimes I see green chip betting

Quote: mcallister3200

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Jeff571966

I'm not a pro but have always wondered why players banned in Vegas don't just come to NJ where it's illegal to ban counters?
link to original post

Because since they can't ban counters they can do other anti-counting rules that prevent card counting.

For example they can shuffle the deck after every hand, use automatic shuffling machines or flat bet a suspected card counter so he can't raise his bet when optimal.

In the end it's better to fight where the advantage is than where it's pretty much negated.
link to original post

Minor correction, I believe you mean continuous shuffle machine instead of automatic? Automatic would generally be preferred by most counters due to more hands per hour than a hand shuffle.
link to original post

Yes.

I don't card count myself so didn't realize they were different per se. I assume all automated shuffles will be set to continuous shuffling.

But yeah CSM as opposed to ASM.

Locally I see a 6 deck discard pile put into one part of an automatic shuffler machine that's built into the table. They push a button and the decks disappear into the machine. They press another button and another 6 deck stack of cards arises from the machine. These cards are taken out of the machine, a cut is offered to a player, then they are put into the shoe with the final card card put in about 2 decks in from the back. Seems simple. The machine could spend a few minutes shuffling the cards and it looks for missing or extra cards or cards it can't read and will display it as an error, then the pit boss gets called over to pour through the decks to check out the inaccuracy. The two shoes have different colors on the back of the cards so they won't get confused; like one is blue and the other is red.

What you might notice or the dealer might notice is that cards dealt sequentially might be 7-7-7-7 or 8-4-8-4 or something noticeable and intriguing and not quite random-like.

When the dealer finishes a shoe, he/she takes what's left in the shoe and divvies it up into small piles and stuffs it into the discard pile in various points so if you're looking for clumping, that should break it up a bit.

Do I prefer this over a hand shuffle? I got burned on a hand shuffle just as bad as on this so I can't tell the difference yet. I figure a hand shuffle could allow the shuffler to make the shoe tougher compared to the automatic shuffler, so maybe stick to the machine shuffler. To turn things around, just stand or surrender on a 15 or 16 when you should have hit.

Seems players are throwing down their licenses or veteran's ID instead of a Player's Card when they buy-in.

Quote: mcallister3200

The games are just trash in the first place. 2 decks cut off an 8 deck is the standard shoe game, 1.8 off a six deck is the standard shoe game. Better games pretty much anywhere else in the northeast if you’re already in the region. Pretty much nowhere allows unrated players to bet more than 10x table minimum’s at most as well.

That’s before you get to everything else like Darkoz mentioned above.
link to original post

I beat the AC game in the late 80s and early 90s - it was exactly as you describe it
I preferred AC because there were so many casinos there - I can't recall if there were others in the NE at that time - but if there were I never considered going to any of them -
I drove for 4 hours to AC and then played for about 14 hours straight breaking only to throw down some food
I played one day every single week - my day off from work - for 6 straight years
I would sleep in my car on the way home so I didn't have to spend for a hotel
I spread from $10 to $90 or $5 to $75 if I could find a $5 table
after showing my large bet just once in a casino I would leave and go to another casino - I didn't play rated
up and down the Boardwalk there were many at that time and I could walk to a different one in less than 5 minutes
they never really bothered me - a couple of times a pit boss said something to me - I think they knew me and knew I would be leaving soon as that was my habit
iirc they placed the cut card very high cutting off half the decks a couple of times when I sat down
I averaged a win of about $150 which is prolly equal to about $340 in today's dollars
I was much younger then and it was a lot of fun - I wasn't married then - there was great strip club to visit on my way home if I had a nice win - some, maybe most of the girls there were drop dead gorgeous - that was surprising to me - quite a nice surprise - I didn't expect really beautiful girls to be doing that -

.

Considering a certain AC former casino owner's penchant for violence and throwing people out, who the heck would want to risk stepping foot on that kind of property?

Quote: lilredrooster

I preferred AC because there were so many casinos there - I can't recall if there were others in the NE at that time - but if there were I never considered going to any of them -

I believe Foxwoods was the next to open and they didn't start slots and tables until around 1993.

.
back in the day, before the internet was widespread, a main way for players to get info about various games was thru Arnold Snyder's Blackjack Forum which was published and distributed quarterly

I loved that publication even though it wasn't really necessary for me in the AC game - there were lots of great insights into the game and other types of valuable info

he was an advocate for the rights of professional gamblers and testified on their behalf in various legal cases

I talked to him on the phone once - I can't recall how I got his number - maybe it was in the publication - anyway, he was very kind and took the time to answer my question to my complete satisfaction - I really appreciated that

he was one of the Giants of the game

Arnold, who called himself "the Bishop of the First Church of Blackjack" passed away last year - r.i.p.

.



.

Quote: lilredrooster

Quote: mcallister3200

The games are just trash in the first place. 2 decks cut off an 8 deck is the standard shoe game, 1.8 off a six deck is the standard shoe game. Better games pretty much anywhere else in the northeast if you’re already in the region. Pretty much nowhere allows unrated players to bet more than 10x table minimum’s at most as well.

That’s before you get to everything else like Darkoz mentioned above.
link to original post

I beat the AC game in the late 80s and early 90s - it was exactly as you describe it
I preferred AC because there were so many casinos there - I can't recall if there were others in the NE at that time - but if there were I never considered going to any of them -
I drove for 4 hours to AC and then played for about 14 hours straight breaking only to throw down some food
I played one day every single week - my day off from work - for 6 straight years
I would sleep in my car on the way home so I didn't have to spend for a hotel
I spread from $10 to $90 or $5 to $75 if I could find a $5 table
after showing my large bet just once in a casino I would leave and go to another casino - I didn't play rated
up and down the Boardwalk there were many at that time and I could walk to a different one in less than 5 minutes
they never really bothered me - a couple of times a pit boss said something to me - I think they knew me and knew I would be leaving soon as that was my habit
iirc they placed the cut card very high cutting off half the decks a couple of times when I sat down
I averaged a win of about $150 which is prolly equal to about $340 in today's dollars
I was much younger then and it was a lot of fun - I wasn't married then - there was great strip club to visit on my way home if I had a nice win - some, maybe most of the girls there were drop dead gorgeous - that was surprising to me - quite a nice surprise - I didn't expect really beautiful girls to be doing that -

.
link to original post

Appreciated your post, can relate to some of it. Some of the bigger differences between now and then would probably be more h17 rather than s17 and 6:5 blackjack at many lower limit tables. There are 0 S17 tables remaining in Vegas outside of high limit rooms, for example.

And a big difference as far as other options being Pennsylvania entering the market for with required S17+ late surrender makes a better option on paper for counters in the greater Philly region not far away.