7 playerBlackjack

I have an interesting question and cannot seem to find the answer to.

I live in Canada. All gambling is controlled by the government, except the Indian reservations.

I have been practicing with basic strategy on 8 card shoe online multilayer (no money). I have been fairly successful.

I just tried the governments live dealer online blackjack and got clobbered.

Details:
1. Bets - $5-$300.
2. 8 card shoe.
3. Deck penetration - one card width - looked like 4 decks.
5. Each shoe hand shuffled - painful to watch, took 10 minutes lol.
6. 7 players at the table.
7. Dealer stands soft 17.
8. No insurance.
9. Only one card on split "Aces".
10. No double down allowed after initial 2 cards dealt.
11. I did minimum $5 bets and followed basic strategy card to a "T"

I went through $200.

I'm beginning to think the extra player slots are a game changer.

Any input,

Thanks in advance.

The number of players is not a factor, this is well established

How many shoes did you sit through?

It sounds like you just got unlucky. It happens. As someone that lived in Vegas for 30 years and probably gambled for close to 100,000 hours you will be amazed by both the good streaks and the bad streaks.

The more players at a table, the slower the game. This works to the player's advantage, as the house is favored in every hand.
The fewer hands dealt, the slower you will lose your money. With seven players and typical side bets, you might play 40 hands an hour. One-on-one, you might pay 100 hands an hour or more. Unless you have an advantage, fewer hands per hour is better.

I believe 4 shoes. Literally put $5 down on every hand except maybe 3 double downs when I had 11 on first two cards.

I was leaning on card disbursement. Basic strategy failed miserably on these tables. And I'm thinking the liow shoe penetration.

Not many. Maybe 4 shoes, with a shuffle after 4 decks.

Quote: Undergrad

I believe 4 shoes. Literally put $5 down on every hand except maybe 3 double downs when I had 11 on first two cards.
link to original post

to lose $200 is not unusual at all. Basic strategy alone is a negative expectation, and if you are flat-betting, the variance is low.

Variance is a measure of expected ups and downs, if you aren't familiar with that. So, to play 4 shoes and come out the loser is pretty likely ... you are just grinding away against the house edge, fully in place... if 'all you got' is basic strategy as a weapon, that's not enough [you can always get lucky of course]

Quote: Undergrad

I believe 4 shoes. Literally put $5 down on every hand except maybe 3 double downs when I had 11 on first two cards.
link to original post

In your rules you stated "no double down allowed after the initial 2 cards are dealt", which had me confused with your follow up here.

I assume you meant No Double downs on 3 card hands or more? The wording made it seem like you could not double down at any time after being dealt your First 2 cards.

If that were the case, you'd be losing out on Huge +EV opportunities and I wouldn't worry about "extra players" as stated above, it can help you just as much, if not more!

Yes, you could double down on first two cards dealt but not after a split.

Thanks for the input everyone.

I think you are correct with “the extra player slots are a game changer.”

Yes, you could double down on first two cards dealt but not after a split.

Thanks for the input everyone. I'll have road test it again sometime and compare to brick and mortar casino's.

Quote: aceside

I think you are correct with “the extra player slots are a game changer.”
link to original post

That was my feeling since I basically played half the hands on half a shoe before re-deal.

Unless you were counting or knew something about what card or cards were expected to be dealt, or appear in that "clump," the number of players, number of hands to shuffle, would make no difference. It's only if there are periods when you have an advantage or disadvantage and do something about it, that getting less or more chance to play the deck would matter one way or another (over time).

If you're just playing the same way every hand then it really won't make any difference over time whether you got to play only one hand per deck or ten.

Quote: Undergrad

...
11. I did minimum $5 bets and followed basic strategy card to a "T"...
Thanks in advance.

As has been said luck plays its part. One other thing is if you're not allowed to double after a split (DDAS) then the correct splitting strategy changes slightly (look for "Ph" on https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/strategy/4-decks/ ). Also note these strategies assume Dealer peeks for BJ.

I'd really wonder what the upside to this game is when I'm down $500 on $5 bets alone.

Down $200 at $5 per bet in 4 shoes definitely will feel like an .ss kicking it happens on occasion though.
You had forty bets and most of your Doubles and splits failed a nice run of negative variance is all.

Quote: ChumpChange

I'd really wonder what the upside to this game is when I'm down $500 on $5 bets alone.
link to original post

I can appreciate what MDawg says above. But I think even being a card counter you are handicapped when you only get 3-4 hands per shuffle. Because even counting cards has a margin of error.

It would probably be different if they penetrated into the shoe 6-7 decks. But 4 deck shuffle in a 8 deck shoe, with only getting 3-4 hands. It would be difficult.

Quote: rainman

Down $200 at $5 per bet in 4 shoes definitely will feel like an .ss kicking it happens on occasion though.
You had forty bets and most of your Doubles and splits failed a nice run of negative variance is all.
link to original post

It felt like an .ss kicking. I would have been alright winning 10 hands or so and loosing it all. But I think I only won 2 hands. 🤣

I don't know how many times or in how many threads (on just this site) I've put something close to this response out about online blackjack games... probably dozens.

4/8 deck penetration. Stop. Just don't play unless it's purely for entertainment and you EXPECT to lose the house edge + any incorrect playing mistakes.

With 4/8 decks pen the count frequencies all change to complete garbage. That means you'll see high counts less frequently, and thus you'll play less hands and it'll take that much longer to get to N0, aka, the "long run."

Here's how you grind out a small profit on online live blackjack:
1) Have a 6 figure bankroll, probably more like multiple six figures... the variance is going to be sick.
2) Only jump in with a max bet on any positive count (taking in to account the CRAP rules of the game, of course, so more like True 2 minimum for betting, and remember you'll see True 2 a fraction of the time you'd normally see it with better pen).
3) You better love variance, because the 4/8 decks pen combined with limited max bet situations will lead you to be EV +/- a trillion.
4) Hope you don't get banned (which online casinos can do and have done).
5) Hope you don't die of old age before you get a years salary.
6) Hope that you can cash out... especially if it's not a "big name" online site they could just stiff you and steal your money... especially if they review your hands and see you're counting and call you a cheater. Good luck winning an email argument against them, since you can't sue them. Maybe you can shame them through LCB or here, but that's your best option.

7) Let's pretend all of that doesn't bother you and you have the ability to do all of the above... for the same bankroll/amount of effort you could make, at least, 10x to 50x more putting your bankroll and effort in to pretty much any other play.


***This all assumes a "standard" game (with crap rules) and not extenuating circumstances (i.e. more information, etc).

Romes,

if you're not going to pop your most excellent Blackjack articles, I will; here is a link to the first of them:

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/A-to-Z-Counting-Cards-in-Blackjack/