metawins
• Posts: 8
Joined: Jul 14, 2022
July 14th, 2022 at 10:00:17 AM permalink
So i'm trying to find out basic strategy for these rules:

1. infinite decks
2. dealer stands on soft 17
3. european style(no peak for blackjack on A or 10)
4. double after split allowed.
5. no surrender
6. blackjack pays 3 to 2
7. double on any 2 cards
8. *** can only split ALL pairs ONCE ***

when i tried using the blackjack basic strategy calculator there was no option to put only can split once. im not talking about only splitting aces once, you literally can only split ANY pair once.... thanks in advance!!! cheers to all!!!
Kanedias
• Posts: 10
Joined: Jan 27, 2022
July 14th, 2022 at 10:53:54 AM permalink
http: //www. beatingbonuses. p?decks=8&soft17=stand&doubleon=any2cards&das=on&surrender=no&peek=&btn=Calculate

That's 8 decks with shuffling after every hand. I don't imagine there's any material difference between that and infinite decks.
charliepatrick
• Posts: 2952
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
July 14th, 2022 at 11:12:11 AM permalink
Most splits are fairly clear cut so the number of times you can split afterwards isn't a factor. The only close ones might be 4s. Thus I would suggest sticking to UK strategy, ensuring you've added in splitting in 4s vs 5/6 and the soft doubles. I assume you already know the (ENHC) peek differences: not splitting 8s vs A/10 and As vs A, not doubling 11 vs A/10.
gordonm888
• Posts: 5077
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
July 14th, 2022 at 1:20:34 PM permalink
Quote: metawins

So i'm trying to find out basic strategy for these rules:

1. infinite decks
2. dealer stands on soft 17
3. european style(no peak for blackjack on A or 10)
4. double after split allowed.
5. no surrender
6. blackjack pays 3 to 2
7. double on any 2 cards
8. *** can only split ALL pairs ONCE ***

when i tried using the blackjack basic strategy calculator there was no option to put only can split once. im not talking about only splitting aces once, you literally can only split ANY pair once.... thanks in advance!!! cheers to all!!!

I get Player EV = -0.007934, or EV = -0.7934% for the rules listed above.

If you allow all pairs except aces to be split up to three times, the calculated EV = -0.7578%.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
charliepatrick
• Posts: 2952
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
July 14th, 2022 at 2:29:30 PM permalink
^ Just wondering whether your figures use H17 rather than S17. I know the UK rules are about .5% but thought you could re-split Aces - I'm sure I've done it at my local.

https://www.ukcasinotablegames.info/blackjack.html (these figures of .51% .55% have been quoted in casino pamphlets for ages; checking two of them, I see you can't re-split Aces, but can re-split other pairs forever. I have no idea where they get the H17 number of .85% etc. from.)

https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/calculator/ (This gives slightly lower numbers, but fairly close.)
metawins
• Posts: 8
Joined: Jul 14, 2022
July 14th, 2022 at 3:13:16 PM permalink
ok no one is understanding the main point of this post. if i get dealt 66 for example, if i split and another 6 comes on CHUMBA CASINO you are UNABLE to split again so you will have to either hit or stand as a 12. ONLY 1 SPLIT per hand. doesnt matter if its aces, 2s 3s 4s 5s 6s 7s 8s 9s 10s. aces obviously you only get 1 additional card, but never have i played anywhere if you split 2-10s can you NOT split again. So what im asking is how does this affect the BASIC STRATEGY. I was hoping someone would reply with a blackjack calculator that can include this or just a chart with what i need to do for optimal results with SINGLE SPLIT PER HAND(NO RE SPLITTING AFTER ANOTHER CARD IS DEALT) thanks again :)
metawins
• Posts: 8
Joined: Jul 14, 2022
July 14th, 2022 at 3:13:31 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Quote: metawins

So i'm trying to find out basic strategy for these rules:

1. infinite decks
2. dealer stands on soft 17
3. european style(no peak for blackjack on A or 10)
4. double after split allowed.
5. no surrender
6. blackjack pays 3 to 2
7. double on any 2 cards
8. *** can only split ALL pairs ONCE ***

when i tried using the blackjack basic strategy calculator there was no option to put only can split once. im not talking about only splitting aces once, you literally can only split ANY pair once.... thanks in advance!!! cheers to all!!!

I get Player EV = -0.007934, or EV = -0.7934% for the rules listed above.

If you allow all pairs except aces to be split up to three times, the calculated EV = -0.7578%.

ok no one is understanding the main point of this post. if i get dealt 66 for example, if i split and another 6 comes on CHUMBA CASINO you are UNABLE to split again so you will have to either hit or stand as a 12. ONLY 1 SPLIT per hand. doesnt matter if its aces, 2s 3s 4s 5s 6s 7s 8s 9s 10s. aces obviously you only get 1 additional card, but never have i played anywhere if you split 2-10s can you NOT split again. So what im asking is how does this affect the BASIC STRATEGY. I was hoping someone would reply with a blackjack calculator that can include this or just a chart with what i need to do for optimal results with SINGLE SPLIT PER HAND(NO RE SPLITTING AFTER ANOTHER CARD IS DEALT) thanks again :)
metawins
• Posts: 8
Joined: Jul 14, 2022
July 14th, 2022 at 3:13:45 PM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

Most splits are fairly clear cut so the number of times you can split afterwards isn't a factor. The only close ones might be 4s. Thus I would suggest sticking to UK strategy, ensuring you've added in splitting in 4s vs 5/6 and the soft doubles. I assume you already know the (ENHC) peek differences: not splitting 8s vs A/10 and As vs A, not doubling 11 vs A/10.

ok no one is understanding the main point of this post. if i get dealt 66 for example, if i split and another 6 comes on CHUMBA CASINO you are UNABLE to split again so you will have to either hit or stand as a 12. ONLY 1 SPLIT per hand. doesnt matter if its aces, 2s 3s 4s 5s 6s 7s 8s 9s 10s. aces obviously you only get 1 additional card, but never have i played anywhere if you split 2-10s can you NOT split again. So what im asking is how does this affect the BASIC STRATEGY. I was hoping someone would reply with a blackjack calculator that can include this or just a chart with what i need to do for optimal results with SINGLE SPLIT PER HAND(NO RE SPLITTING AFTER ANOTHER CARD IS DEALT) thanks again :)
metawins
• Posts: 8
Joined: Jul 14, 2022
July 14th, 2022 at 3:14:18 PM permalink
Quote: Kanedias

http: //www. beatingbonuses. p?decks=8&soft17=stand&doubleon=any2cards&das=on&surrender=no&peek=&btn=Calculate

That's 8 decks with shuffling after every hand. I don't imagine there's any material difference between that and infinite decks.

ok no one is understanding the main point of this post. if i get dealt 66 for example, if i split and another 6 comes on CHUMBA CASINO you are UNABLE to split again so you will have to either hit or stand as a 12. ONLY 1 SPLIT per hand. doesnt matter if its aces, 2s 3s 4s 5s 6s 7s 8s 9s 10s. aces obviously you only get 1 additional card, but never have i played anywhere if you split 2-10s can you NOT split again. So what im asking is how does this affect the BASIC STRATEGY. I was hoping someone would reply with a blackjack calculator that can include this or just a chart with what i need to do for optimal results with SINGLE SPLIT PER HAND(NO RE SPLITTING AFTER ANOTHER CARD IS DEALT) thanks again :)
Kanedias
• Posts: 10
Joined: Jan 27, 2022
July 14th, 2022 at 3:19:43 PM permalink
Quote: metawins

Quote: Kanedias

http: //www. beatingbonuses. p?decks=8&soft17=stand&doubleon=any2cards&das=on&surrender=no&peek=&btn=Calculate

That's 8 decks with shuffling after every hand. I don't imagine there's any material difference between that and infinite decks.

ok no one is understanding the main point of this post. if i get dealt 66 for example, if i split and another 6 comes on CHUMBA CASINO you are UNABLE to split again so you will have to either hit or stand as a 12. ONLY 1 SPLIT per hand. doesnt matter if its aces, 2s 3s 4s 5s 6s 7s 8s 9s 10s. aces obviously you only get 1 additional card, but never have i played anywhere if you split 2-10s can you NOT split again. So what im asking is how does this affect the BASIC STRATEGY. I was hoping someone would reply with a blackjack calculator that can include this or just a chart with what i need to do for optimal results with SINGLE SPLIT PER HAND(NO RE SPLITTING AFTER ANOTHER CARD IS DEALT) thanks again :)

That link I posted does exactly what you're asking. The option you seem to think I missed is listed as "no resplits".
metawins
• Posts: 8
Joined: Jul 14, 2022
July 14th, 2022 at 3:22:46 PM permalink
Quote: Kanedias

Quote: metawins

Quote: Kanedias

http: //www. beatingbonuses. p?decks=8&soft17=stand&doubleon=any2cards&das=on&surrender=no&peek=&btn=Calculate

That's 8 decks with shuffling after every hand. I don't imagine there's any material difference between that and infinite decks.

ok no one is understanding the main point of this post. if i get dealt 66 for example, if i split and another 6 comes on CHUMBA CASINO you are UNABLE to split again so you will have to either hit or stand as a 12. ONLY 1 SPLIT per hand. doesnt matter if its aces, 2s 3s 4s 5s 6s 7s 8s 9s 10s. aces obviously you only get 1 additional card, but never have i played anywhere if you split 2-10s can you NOT split again. So what im asking is how does this affect the BASIC STRATEGY. I was hoping someone would reply with a blackjack calculator that can include this or just a chart with what i need to do for optimal results with SINGLE SPLIT PER HAND(NO RE SPLITTING AFTER ANOTHER CARD IS DEALT) thanks again :)

That link I posted does exactly what you're asking. The option you seem to think I missed is listed as "no resplits".

i apologize then, i tried copy pasting the link and deleting the blank spaces in it but still wont work. i will try manually finding it on that site. thanks for your kind help brother.
metawins
• Posts: 8
Joined: Jul 14, 2022
July 14th, 2022 at 3:26:26 PM permalink
i was able to find the calculator and to my knowledge doesnt look like anything changes from no resplits to resplits allowed. thanks again!!
charliepatrick
• Posts: 2952
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
July 14th, 2022 at 3:38:51 PM permalink
^ I understood entirely what you said. My answer was you should ignore the fact that you can only split once and use the standard charts where multiple splits are allowed (these can be found on wizardofodds or elsewhere). In simple terms it does not affect the "basic strategy".

The logic is that if it is correct to split (only allowed to do it once) then it means you're better off splitting (say) 6-6 than hitting 12. If, on another day/game, you can split multiple times, then you're even better off (as your splitting of the 6-6 also now has the additional advantage of being able to split again if you receive another 6.)

Similar logic applies to pairs where you're better off not splitting. As an example normally you should stand on 10-10 rather than splitting. The fact that you might be able to re-split (and presumably would do) means the decision to split would be even worse as you would presumably continue to split if you got another 10; thus costing you even more.

Hopefully this explains why the number of times you can split doesn't really change the decision (or strategy).
metawins
• Posts: 8
Joined: Jul 14, 2022
July 14th, 2022 at 4:24:53 PM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

^ I understood entirely what you said. My answer was you should ignore the fact that you can only split once and use the standard charts where multiple splits are allowed (these can be found on wizardofodds or elsewhere). In simple terms it does not affect the "basic strategy".

The logic is that if it is correct to split (only allowed to do it once) then it means you're better off splitting (say) 6-6 than hitting 12. If, on another day/game, you can split multiple times, then you're even better off (as your splitting of the 6-6 also now has the additional advantage of being able to split again if you receive another 6.)

Similar logic applies to pairs where you're better off not splitting. As an example normally you should stand on 10-10 rather than splitting. The fact that you might be able to re-split (and presumably would do) means the decision to split would be even worse as you would presumably continue to split if you got another 10; thus costing you even more.

Hopefully this explains why the number of times you can split doesn't really change the decision (or strategy).

ah thanks for that explanation, yes totally makes sense now! i might not be the sharpest crayon in the box haha :)
Dieter
• Posts: 5581
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
July 14th, 2022 at 4:33:57 PM permalink
Quote: metawins

i apologize then, i tried copy pasting the link and deleting the blank spaces in it but still wont work. i will try manually finding it on that site. thanks for your kind help brother.

https://www.beatingbonuses.com/bjstrategy.php

Links are, unfortunately, being sanitized by the forum software as a spam prevention measure.

I've included a link in case others are looking for that calculator.
May the cards fall in your favor.
GMan
• Posts: 81
Joined: Jan 5, 2013
July 15th, 2022 at 6:58:36 AM permalink
I get -0.634% for this game.

1. infinite decks = -0.61%
2. dealer stands on soft 17 = 0%
3. european style(no peak for blackjack on A or 10) or ENHC = -0.11%
4. double after split allowed. (DAS 2 hands max) = +0.086%
5. no surrender = 0%
6. blackjack pays 3 to 2 = 0%
7. double on any 2 cards = 0%
8. *** can only split ALL pairs ONCE *** = "negligible"

Total: -0.634%

PS. Using MGP's BJ CA, we get -0.681% for this game which result is probably closer to the truth.
G Man