hole card team in a movie

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in the movie "Casino" boss Ace Rothstein (Robert De Niro) catches a 2 man team of hole carders and deals out punishment

I think other than the punishment part - it's pretty realistic and pretty amazing that this actually appeared in a popular movie

as a caveat I need to state that I didn't do hole carding so I'm not the best judge

unfortunate that the guy who uploaded used the word "cheaters" in the vid

this is an old movie so my apologies if its been posted before - my search didn't find it
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Quote: lilredrooster

... unfortunate that the guy who uploaded used the word "cheaters" in the vid
link to original post

well the guy was wearing a device ... that is cheating

what would DeNiro [his character] have done with someone just hole-carding without device, portrayed realistically?

Quote: odiousgambit

Quote: lilredrooster

... unfortunate that the guy who uploaded used the word "cheaters" in the vid
link to original post

well the guy was wearing a device ... that is cheating

what would DeNiro [his character] have done with someone just hole-carding without device, portrayed realistically?
link to original post

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the De Niro character is based on the real life character of Frank "Lefty" Rosenthal who was running Vegas casinos in the 60s and 70s

I would guess that they would have been backroomed and told they were not welcome in the casino

they also would have probably, I think, confiscated any chips they had

maybe some tough guys would act threatening towards them but I doubt they would have actually physically harmed them

depending on what year it actually was their name and picture and methods would have been circulated in the "Griffin" book -

the Griffin book began circulating among casinos around 1967 - it features cheats, hustlers and card counters - helping casino management to identify them and protect the casino from losses due to their methods

Lefty Rosenthal was a very interesting character - the link gives some info about him


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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Rosenthal


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Quote: lilredrooster

I think other than the punishment part - it's pretty realistic …
link to original post

Um, weren’t the mob run casinos known for dispensing that sort of punishment when cheaters were discovered?

And I think Lefty / DeNiro would have done the same thing even if a device were not used. The device made it easier for audiences to not doubt the cheaters’ intentions.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Um, weren’t the mob run casinos known for dispensing that sort of punishment when cheaters were discovered?

I'm not 100% sure

my personal impression of the Mob is that they were violent towards their competitors or anybody who was an inside man who was ratting on them or cheating them

I kind of doubt they would have beat up a chiseler who stuck them for only a few thou at a casino - especially considering the casino was a gold mine profiting by huge sums every single day

but I could be wrong

when I was counting cards I subscribed to Arnold Snyder's magazine entitled "Blackjack Forum"

at that time there was no internet, and it was, I think, the only news source available for blackjack APs

there were lots of stories from the old timers - I don't recall anybody ever saying they were beaten up



and just to be clear - card counting or hole carding is not in any way cheating - and no one has ever been prosecuted for doing that

yes, the players in the clip were using a device - that makes it different - but it doesn't convince me that the casino tough guys would have beat them up

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Quote: lilredrooster

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Um, weren’t the mob run casinos known for dispensing that sort of punishment when cheaters were discovered?

I'm not 100% sure

my personal impression of the Mob is that they were violent towards their competitors or anybody who was an inside man who was ratting on them or cheating them

I kind of doubt they would have beat up a chiseler who stuck them for only a few thou at a casino - especially considering the casino was a gold mine profiting by huge sums every single day

but I could be wrong

when I was counting cards I subscribed to Arnold Snyder's magazine entitled "Blackjack Forum"

at that time there was no internet, and it was, I think, the only news source available for blackjack APs

there were lots of stories from the old timers - I don't recall anybody ever saying they were beaten up



and just to be clear - card counting or hole carding is not in any way cheating - and no one has ever been prosecuted for doing that

yes, the players in the clip were using a device - that makes it different - but it doesn't convince me that the casino tough guys would have beat them up

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link to original post

What they are doing is considered “spooking,” and generally considered to be illegal. The consensus is to be legal you have to be seated at a position at the table of the dealer flashing the card, iow anyone else naturally playing the game seated at the table in that seat would have the ability to see it.

Quote: lilredrooster

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Um, weren’t the mob run casinos known for dispensing that sort of punishment when cheaters were discovered?

I'm not 100% sure

my personal impression of the Mob is that they were violent towards their competitors or anybody who was an inside man who was ratting on them or cheating them

I kind of doubt they would have beat up a chiseler who stuck them for only a few thou at a casino - especially considering the casino was a gold mine profiting by huge sums every single day

but I could be wrong

when I was counting cards I subscribed to Arnold Snyder's magazine entitled "Blackjack Forum"

at that time there was no internet, and it was, I think, the only news source available for blackjack APs

there were lots of stories from the old timers - I don't recall anybody ever saying they were beaten up



and just to be clear - card counting or hole carding is not in any way cheating - and no one has ever been prosecuted for doing that

yes, the players in the clip were using a device - that makes it different - but it doesn't convince me that the casino tough guys would have beat them up

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link to original post

Players were beaten up. Even as late as 1984 . Search Allen Brown and Barry Finn.
They were beaten up at the Horseshoe one of them had a ruptured spleen and kidney damage. They sued and were awarded a settlement.

Quote: lilredrooster

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in the movie "Casino" boss Ace Rothstein (Robert De Niro) catches a 2 man team of hole carders and deals out punishment

I think other than the punishment part - it's pretty realistic and pretty amazing that this actually appeared in a popular movie

as a caveat I need to state that I didn't do hole carding so I'm not the best judge

unfortunate that the guy who uploaded used the word "cheaters" in the vid

this is an old movie so my apologies if its been posted before - my search didn't find it
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link to original post

I remember that night like it was yesterday. I was going to have them buried in the desert but the bosses disagreed

Ummmm... it was a movie, not a documentary.

This video clip reminds me how much I miss the old Riviera!

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technical error in the clip

Ace (De Niro) says to the gray haired guy____________"BJ 19 second base the beard"

but the beard isn't at second base

the beard is at 3rd base - since there's no one sitting on the farthest chair to his left

3rd base is the last to receive a card from the dealer on the initial dealout - and that is the beard


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Quote: lilredrooster

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technical error in the clip

Ace (De Niro) says to the gray haired guy____________"BJ 19 second base the beard"

but the beard isn't at second base

the beard is at 3rd base - since there's no one sitting on the farthest chair to his left

3rd base is the last to receive a card from the dealer on the initial dealout - and that is the beard


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link to original post

So if I am playing alone at first base, am I now third base? I've never put much thought into it, but it seems the first position is first base and the last postion is third base, even if they are empty.
In your scenerio, suppose somebody just sat down at 3rd while security is headed over?

Quote: billryan

Quote: lilredrooster

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technical error in the clip

Ace (De Niro) says to the gray haired guy____________"BJ 19 second base the beard"

but the beard isn't at second base

the beard is at 3rd base - since there's no one sitting on the farthest chair to his left

3rd base is the last to receive a card from the dealer on the initial dealout - and that is the beard


.
link to original post

So if I am playing alone at first base, am I now third base? I've never put much thought into it, but it seems the first position is first base and the last postion is third base, even if they are empty.
In your scenerio, suppose somebody just sat down at 3rd while security is headed over?
link to original post

even if I accepted your comments as being accurate - which I don't - (bases are never called unless there are players there)_____________

there is still a technical error in the clip - there is no way the beard is at 2nd base - there are 3 players at the table - and he is the furthest from 1st base

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