Glunn11
Glunn11
Joined: Aug 17, 2010
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 7
November 9th, 2021 at 3:37:30 PM permalink
Hi all,

Evolution Gaming just launched a new live dealer game called Lightning Blackjack. I'd love to see an analysis of it. My gut tells me there's probably some basic strategy deviations to attain optimal RTP. Rules are the same as other Evolution games on most fronts:

  • 8 decks
  • Stand on soft 17
  • Dealer only peeks for blackjack with A showing; does NOT peek with 10 showing
  • No double after split
  • No re-split


The "lightning" part is the gimmick:

  1. Player must pay a fee equal to 100% of the ante on each hand
  2. If the player wins the round, they get a multiplier that is applied to their winnings on the next round.
  3. The value of the multiplier is based on the player's hand value. It is "randomly" generated (with lightning visuals) at the beginning of each deal.
  4. Winning multipliers are capped to the bet size of the round in which they were won. If you win a multiplier betting $100, the multiplier only applies to your next bet of $100 or less. Wagers over $100 can be made, but portions above the previous wager do not get applied with the multiplier.


EXAMPLE MULTIPLIERS - per the documentation, the multiplier is always between 2x and 25x. From my time at the table, a "typical" set is as follows:
  • 12 thru 17 - 2x
  • 18 - 3x
  • 19 - 4x
  • 20 - 6x
  • 21 - 8x
  • Blackjack - 9x


I can't recall ever seeing the 12 thru 17 and the 18 being anything other than 2x and 3x, respectively. The multipliers only deviate slightly in my experience.
The documentation indicates optimal strategy yields 99.56% RTP. I suspect - but am not smart enough to deduce affirmatively - that more aggressive play than typical basic strategy for this setup is warranted to achieve higher multipliers.

For what it's worth I played it a few times and it's absolutely kicked my butt, YMMV.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
  • Threads: 57
  • Posts: 2698
November 9th, 2021 at 3:50:48 PM permalink
Only winning streakers need apply.
ChesterDog
ChesterDog 
Joined: Jul 26, 2010
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 997
November 9th, 2021 at 4:22:41 PM permalink
Quote: Glunn11

Hi all,

Evolution Gaming just launched a new live dealer game called Lightning Blackjack. I'd love to see an analysis of it. My gut tells me there's probably some basic strategy deviations to attain optimal RTP. Rules are the same as other Evolution games on most fronts:

  • 8 decks
  • Stand on soft 17
  • Dealer only peeks for blackjack with A showing; does NOT peek with 10 showing
  • No double after split
  • No re-split


The "lightning" part is the gimmick:

  1. Player must pay a fee equal to 100% of the ante on each hand
  2. If the player wins the round, they get a multiplier that is applied to their winnings on the next round.
  3. The value of the multiplier is based on the player's hand value. It is "randomly" generated (with lightning visuals) at the beginning of each deal.
  4. Winning multipliers are capped to the bet size of the round in which they were won. If you win a multiplier betting $100, the multiplier only applies to your next bet of $100 or less. Wagers over $100 can be made, but portions above the previous wager do not get applied with the multiplier.


EXAMPLE MULTIPLIERS - per the documentation, the multiplier is always between 2x and 25x. From my time at the table, a "typical" set is as follows:
  • 12 thru 17 - 2x
  • 18 - 3x
  • 19 - 4x
  • 20 - 6x
  • 21 - 8x
  • Blackjack - 9x


I can't recall ever seeing the 12 thru 17 and the 18 being anything other than 2x and 3x, respectively. The multipliers only deviate slightly in my experience.
The documentation indicates optimal strategy yields 99.56% RTP. I suspect - but am not smart enough to deduce affirmatively - that more aggressive play than typical basic strategy for this setup is warranted to achieve higher multipliers.

For what it's worth I played it a few times and it's absolutely kicked my butt, YMMV.
link to original post



Does the multiplier also apply to all of a won double-down bet?

For example, suppose you bet $10 (plus $10 fee) and got a 3x multiplier for the next hand. And suppose you bet $10 on the next hand and doubled-down and won. Would you be paid 3x $20 = $60, for a net profit of $50 on that hand?

By the way, see the main thread on this new game: https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/advice/36630-evolution-lightning-blackjack/.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
  • Threads: 57
  • Posts: 2698
November 9th, 2021 at 4:41:36 PM permalink
From the video on the other thread, only the ante gets a multiplier on the next hand. You don't get your ante back for winning the hand, so it's still an overall push. If you win the multiplier hand, then you still lose your ante bet, but you'll be paid a multiple of that ante bet. There's some kind of payout term I don't quite remember for that. The ante bet is non-refundable, but its value is carried over to the next hand. If you keep varying your bets, I don't know how they're gonna keep track of what you bet the previous hand because they already took your money.. The player said you need to win on a 3X multiplier to break even for a given 3 hand segment, so that'd mean an 18+ on each hand.

AFAIK, this game is worse than 6:5 BJ, even worse than 1:1 BJ. Of course it will become all the rage because people want to win on their 25X multiplier, which may come around once every 42 hands, but you've made next to nothing on 41 other hands, and there's no guarantee of a payoff on the 43rd hand.
CrystalMath
CrystalMath
Joined: May 10, 2011
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 1907
Thanks for this post from:
ChesterDog
November 9th, 2021 at 5:35:42 PM permalink
Quote: ChesterDog

Quote: Glunn11

Hi all,

Evolution Gaming just launched a new live dealer game called Lightning Blackjack. I'd love to see an analysis of it. My gut tells me there's probably some basic strategy deviations to attain optimal RTP. Rules are the same as other Evolution games on most fronts:

  • 8 decks
  • Stand on soft 17
  • Dealer only peeks for blackjack with A showing; does NOT peek with 10 showing
  • No double after split
  • No re-split


The "lightning" part is the gimmick:

  1. Player must pay a fee equal to 100% of the ante on each hand
  2. If the player wins the round, they get a multiplier that is applied to their winnings on the next round.
  3. The value of the multiplier is based on the player's hand value. It is "randomly" generated (with lightning visuals) at the beginning of each deal.
  4. Winning multipliers are capped to the bet size of the round in which they were won. If you win a multiplier betting $100, the multiplier only applies to your next bet of $100 or less. Wagers over $100 can be made, but portions above the previous wager do not get applied with the multiplier.


EXAMPLE MULTIPLIERS - per the documentation, the multiplier is always between 2x and 25x. From my time at the table, a "typical" set is as follows:
  • 12 thru 17 - 2x
  • 18 - 3x
  • 19 - 4x
  • 20 - 6x
  • 21 - 8x
  • Blackjack - 9x


I can't recall ever seeing the 12 thru 17 and the 18 being anything other than 2x and 3x, respectively. The multipliers only deviate slightly in my experience.
The documentation indicates optimal strategy yields 99.56% RTP. I suspect - but am not smart enough to deduce affirmatively - that more aggressive play than typical basic strategy for this setup is warranted to achieve higher multipliers.

For what it's worth I played it a few times and it's absolutely kicked my butt, YMMV.
link to original post



Does the multiplier also apply to all of a won double-down bet?

For example, suppose you bet $10 (plus $10 fee) and got a 3x multiplier for the next hand. And suppose you bet $10 on the next hand and doubled-down and won. Would you be paid 3x $20 = $60, for a net profit of $50 on that hand?

By the way, see the main thread on this new game: https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/advice/36630-evolution-lightning-blackjack/.
link to original post



Double down pays 2x multiplier. Splits pay multiplier on each hand.
I heart Crystal Math.
ssho88
ssho88
Joined: Oct 16, 2011
  • Threads: 48
  • Posts: 583
Thanks for this post from:
ChesterDog
November 9th, 2021 at 6:41:25 PM permalink
Suppose the multiplier is 7x, you bet $5 + $5(Lightning fees), 8,2 vs 6, DOUBLE(put another $5), total bet is $15(including non refundable lightning fees).

You won the hand, Total return = ($5 + $5) x 7 + $5(original bet) + $5(Double amount) = $80.

So, net win = $80 - $15 = $65 ?
CrystalMath
CrystalMath
Joined: May 10, 2011
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 1907
November 10th, 2021 at 6:22:45 AM permalink
Quote: ssho88

Suppose the multiplier is 7x, you bet $5 + $5(Lightning fees), 8,2 vs 6, DOUBLE(put another $5), total bet is $15(including non refundable lightning fees).

You won the hand, Total return = ($5 + $5) x 7 + $5(original bet) + $5(Double amount) = $80.

So, net win = $80 - $15 = $65 ?
link to original post



Looks right
I heart Crystal Math.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
  • Threads: 57
  • Posts: 2698
November 10th, 2021 at 6:43:55 AM permalink
I disagree. You win 7X on your $5 ante bet (Lightning Fee) for $35. You don't double down your Lightning bet. Your $5 regular bet and the double down to $10 pays another $10. So you'll be up $35 + $10 - $5 lightning fee not returned + $10 regular double down bet returned. On a machine, that'd be a $55 win. On a table, that'd be a profit of $40.

If you were splitting a hand that had 7X on each, the video didn't quite go far enough to show what happens. The video would have shown 7X twice, once on each split hand. So if you win both hands you'll win 7X the ante on each*. If you win one hand, you'll win 7X the ante on one winner hand. If no hand wins, there won't even be a multiplier for the next hand and your current ante means nothing. So getting splits with the multiplier is key but you can only split once, and BJ's on a split count as 21 for the multiplier of the next hand. (*Unless the guy in the video said only the highest split counts and the ante multiple gets paid on that and not the other one.)
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 207
  • Posts: 12492
November 10th, 2021 at 6:57:59 AM permalink
is this a table game where the dealer is making these payouts? It seems pretty confusing and gameplay must be at a snails pace.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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November 10th, 2021 at 7:20:32 AM permalink
There is already another thread on this topic. I'm closing this thread. Please resume the discussion in the original thread.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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