Omega Blackjack Team
So after what feels like an eternity, I have finally decided to resume my blackjack career. On a previous thread I discussed the possibility of forming a blackjack team using live streaming, so I wanted to let you guys know that if anyone is interested in watching my first stream I am planning a trip for the end of April. I have created a private Facebook group where I will be live streaming my play and I can give an invite to any players that want to view it. I will be traveling with a friend / partner that I have teamed up with many times over the years, he uses Hi-Lo Il18 and I will be using the same system / spread as him. For the sake of team play, I will not be using AO2 as it is much easier to track the playing as I believe most players are Hi-Lo players.
We have not decided the exact date or location yet, I will let you know when we have decided that. Would love to hear your thoughts or any questions you have and let me know if you want to join the group!
- Omega
Quote: SOOPOOIsn’t one of the principles of Advantage Play to stay under the radar? Seems like a broadcast is antithetical?
No not that I'm aware of, I have no interest in staying under the radar. I would rather network and share my play with others.
Quote: theOmega623No not that I'm aware of, I have no interest in staying under the radar. I would rather network and share my play with others.
Make some kool uniforms. Most BJ teams don't merchandise properly, although I once saw a guy at the Wild West wearing a Black Belt in Blackjack tshirt.
Good luck. It's a rough road ahead.
Quote: billryanMake some kool uniforms. Most BJ teams don't merchandise properly, although I once saw a guy at the Wild West wearing a Black Belt in Blackjack tshirt.
Good luck. It's a rough road ahead.
Great idea, maybe even get sponsors!
Quote: CalderIf it's not on YouTube, it doesn't exist.
I can stream it to YouTube as well if that's what players prefer, there is a player that goes by the name Dark Starr that does this.
Quote: theOmega623I can stream it to YouTube as well if that's what players prefer, there is a player that goes by the name Dark Starr that does this.
i would assume people are trying alot of different things to reveal who you are at this point. these are are joking replys - because im telling you right now - live streaming is alot harder to censor things such as logos and colors and faces if you are pointing your camera up.
i know i suggested embedding the camera in your clothing, but im telling you right now even the live streamers have difficulty with streaming because of bandwidth. I say good luck unless you have already gone through with the test run, but once the people see any sign of any casino you are at, they will cross reference it with the relative days you are in the casino and ask their buddys to look you up. I can assure you.
Quote: heatmapi would assume people are trying alot of different things to reveal who you are at this point. these are are joking replys - because im telling you right now - live streaming is alot harder to censor things such as logos and colors and faces if you are pointing your camera up.
i know i suggested embedding the camera in your clothing, but im telling you right now even the live streamers have difficulty with streaming because of bandwidth. I say good luck unless you have already gone through with the test run, but once the people see any sign of any casino you are at, they will cross reference it with the relative days you are in the casino and ask their buddys to look you up. I can assure you.
Thanks for the response heatmap! I dont mind the joking replies, to be expected on this forum. Some members contribute by offering mature and intellectual debate and some offer little more than comedic nonsense. Can't have a circus without a few clowns though right?
On the first point, I genuinely appreciate your advice and concern for players who wish to remain anonymous. However I personally couldn't care less about that. For anyone reading that cares, my real name is Jay and I'm a 34 yr old white male with blonde hair..run tell it!
On the second point, operating the stream with clarity and reliability are my main concerns. I have not tested it yet, it will be hard to get a feel for what you can actually make out until we get into an actual casino setting. This is basically what this upcoming trip will be, a good test phase.
Hopefully you will still be streaming for the glory of it and for all of us in your county jail.
Quote: GManUsing a streaming device in a casino will get you arrested and sentenced to jail.
Hopefully you will still be streaming for the glory of it and for all of us in your county jail.
Thanks for the legal advice.
"It's not illegal, but casinos don't allow you to do it because many of their customers don't want to be filmed or photographed playing. If you try it you won't be arrested, but you probably will be ejected."
Quote: theOmega623Thanks for the legal advice.
"It's not illegal, but casinos don't allow you to do it because many of their customers don't want to be filmed or photographed playing. If you try it you won't be arrested, but you probably will be ejected."
So what makes it illegal is that it’s a computer in general - as well as tracking the results that come out of the shoe And from that point you can - well you can do the things you know how to do with precision.
Tracking the results of baccarat and roulette are legal because they know that it doesn’t matter.
Tracking the results of bj is what they are saying is illegal pretty much though not having the camera in general per se
Quote: heatmapSo what makes it illegal is that it’s a computer in general - as well as tracking the results that come out of the shoe And from that point you can - well you can do the things you know how to do with precision.
Tracking the results of baccarat and roulette are legal because they know that it doesn’t matter.
Tracking the results of bj is what they are saying is illegal pretty much though not having the camera in general per se
Respectfully, that is incorrect. While it is against casino policy, it is in no way illegal to film yourself playing inside a casino or tracking your results. The law specifically reads "using a device to cheat", this is demonstrated by a number of players such as slot lady, colin Jones, michael morgenstern, and a few others. Take slot lady for example, if there was a law prohibiting her from streaming then the Casino would not be able to allow it. It is only against Casino policy, not illegal.
Quote: theOmega623Respectfully, that is incorrect. While it is against casino policy, it is in no way illegal to film yourself playing inside a casino or tracking your results. The law specifically reads "using a device to cheat", this is demonstrated by a number of players such as slot lady, colin Jones, michael morgenstern, and a few others. Take slot lady for example, if there was a law prohibiting her from streaming then the Casino would not be able to allow it. It is only against Casino policy, not illegal.
wrong law
NRS 465.075 Use or possession of device, software or hardware to obtain advantage at playing game prohibited. It is unlawful for any person to use, possess with the intent to use or assist another person in using or possessing with the intent to use any computerized, electronic, electrical or mechanical device, or any software or hardware, or any combination thereof, which is designed, constructed, altered or programmed to obtain an advantage at playing any game in a licensed gaming establishment or any game that is offered by a licensee or affiliate, including, without limitation, a device that:
1. Projects the outcome of the game;
2. Keeps track of cards played or cards prepared for play in the game;
3. Analyzes the probability of the occurrence of an event relating to the game; or
4. Analyzes the strategy for playing or betting to be used in the game,
----------------
yes argue that you arent getting an advantage but still tracking - i know because i already told you i was doing this as well just not live streamed
Quote: heatmapwrong law
NRS 465.075 Use or possession of device, software or hardware to obtain advantage at playing game prohibited. It is unlawful for any person to use, possess with the intent to use or assist another person in using or possessing with the intent to use any computerized, electronic, electrical or mechanical device, or any software or hardware, or any combination thereof, which is designed, constructed, altered or programmed to obtain an advantage at playing any game in a licensed gaming establishment or any game that is offered by a licensee or affiliate, including, without limitation, a device that:
1. Projects the outcome of the game;
2. Keeps track of cards played or cards prepared for play in the game;
3. Analyzes the probability of the occurrence of an event relating to the game; or
4. Analyzes the strategy for playing or betting to be used in the game,
Recording yourself playing blackjack does none of the things listed above. Again, this has been demonstrated by Slot Lady.
Quote: theOmega623Recording yourself playing blackjack does not of the things listed above.
i know not specifically but you are keeping track of the cards of the game - and blackjack specifically uses cards - im not tyring to convince you out of this as i also am the one who suggested you embed the camera in your clothing as i feel they wont destroy it - just preparing you for the things people are going to try to argue in their favor if you get caught is all
if theres a hint of a law that sounds like what you are doing they will stretch it to your actions if they dont like what you are doing
Quote: theOmega623Respectfully, that is incorrect. While it is against casino policy, it is in no way illegal to film yourself playing inside a casino or tracking your results. The law specifically reads "using a device to cheat", this is demonstrated by a number of players such as slot lady, colin Jones, michael morgenstern, and a few others. Take slot lady for example, if there was a law prohibiting her from streaming then the Casino would not be able to allow it. It is only against Casino policy, not illegal.
i also suggested you just try to ask the casino to stream without doing it "illegally" as people are saying it.
thats the difference between illegal and legal you ask the casino and they say yes or no in this case. at least according to most opinions on the device laws that be.
i personally think you will be very successful. you seem to have a level head and are patiently waiting to get the correct information and time to do this.
I don't know, nor have ever looked into whether streaming in a casino is actually illegal as GMan says (it may very well be) or just against casino policy and rules. Even if it is the later, you still get kicked out (here in Nevada). It is something that IS going to draw attention and to me that immediately makes it not a smart AP opportunity.
Quote: heatmapi know not specifically but you are keeping track of the cards of the game - and blackjack specifically uses cards - im not tyring to convince you out of this as i also am the one who suggested you embed the camera in your clothing as i feel they wont destroy it - just preparing you for the things people are going to try to argue in their favor if you get caught is all
if theres a hint of a law that sounds like what you are doing they will stretch it to your actions if they dont like what you are doing
I understand and I appreciate the concern. I have thoroughly researched this topic and I firmly believe, as the law reads, this is not in any way illegal. Players and customers ask and are given the permission to use their phone at the tables for photographs and video all the time. The Casino would not be able to give permission for a customer to conduct an illegal activity, that would be like asking permission to do illegal drugs in their hotel room. Furthermore, if they would like to physically detain me against my will for suspected card counting, and believe me that won't be easy, then search me without consent, I am more than willing to fight that battle. On the plus side, at least I will get it all on stream.
I think you will also need a catchphrase.
Quote: billryanI'm thinking bright red Eisenhower jackets, black pants,white shirt and a bow tie. A sharply dressed crew will help your brand to no end.
I think you will also need a catchphrase.
I was actually thinking wigs and dresses, I remember John Chang talking about when he did that. Back then it probably seemed ridiculous but these days it might actually help your longevity, im thinking the last thing a casino wants is a discrimination lawsuit on their hands. Something to think about.
Quote: theOmega623I was actually thinking wigs and dresses, I remember John Chang talking about when he did that. Back then it probably seemed ridiculous but these days it might actually help your longevity, im thinking the last thing a casino wants is a discrimination lawsuit on their hands. Something to think about.
I am not an expert on most things, but blackjack longevity, I know a little about....at least what has worked for me for 17 years, 11 in Las Vegas playing a regular rotation of games with minimal travel (which I don't care for).
My keys to longevity are playing amounts (especially max bets) that are well tolerated for each casino, and time of day/day of week and playing shorter sessions. Shorter sessions means those really big wins that casino personnel have to answer for are minimized. They occasionally occur (oh darn...lol) but in general you are replacing bigger wins with more frequent smaller wins, that are better tolerated. That is the name of my game....don't rock the boat and create situations that pit folks have to answer for. Draw minimal attention.
So that is my game and I am sure there are others doing different things that go towards longevity, but one thing I am fairly sure of is wigs and dresses is not the answer.
Quote: kewljI am not an expert on most things, but blackjack longevity, I know a little about....at least what has worked for me for 17 years, 11 in Las Vegas playing a regular rotation of games with minimal travel (which I don't care for).
My keys to longevity are playing amounts (especially max bets) that are well tolerated for each casino, and time of day/day of week and playing shorter sessions. Shorter sessions means those really big wins that casino personnel have to answer for are minimized. They occasionally occur (oh darn...lol) but in general you are replacing bigger wins with more frequent smaller wins, that are better tolerated. That is the name of my game....don't rock the boat and create situations that pit folks have to answer for. Draw minimal attention.
So that is my game and I am sure there are others doing different things that go towards longevity, but one thing I am fairly sure of is wigs and dresses is not the answer.
Great advice as usual. By the way, how's the year going for you so far?
Quote: theOmega623Great advice as usual. By the way, how's the year going for you so far?
I am right AT expectation. Played zero hands. Won $0. lol
I have not played blackjack since early December and only very sparingly since October because I am higher risk and cases were spiking and I just wasn't comfortable with the casino environment and particularly the blackjack tables. . But I got my vaccination yesterday and am ready to begin my year in a couple weeks.
Quote: kewljI am right AT expectation. Played zero hands. Won $0. lol
I have not played blackjack since early December and only very sparingly since October because I am higher risk and cases were spiking and I just wasn't comfortable with the casino environment and particularly the blackjack tables. . But I got my vaccination yesterday and am ready to begin my year in a couple weeks.
LOL I hear ya man, may the positive variance be with you! Hope the year turns out good for ya. I am absolutely itching to get back to playing, its now been a full year since I've played and I feel like i need to look at a basic strategy chart or something lol. Good luck to you though and please keep me updated!
Quote: theOmega623LOL I hear ya man, may the positive variance be with you! Hope the year turns out good for ya. I am absolutely itching to get back to playing, its now been a full year since I've played and I feel like i need to look at a basic strategy chart or something lol. Good luck to you though and please keep me updated!
Thank you Omega623. You as well.
By the way, I was having a little fun with the "wigs and dresses" comment, but I applaud your thinking outside the box. Just really think this one (wigs and dresses) is not the answer. But good luck either way. :/
Quote: kewljThank you Omega623. You as well.
By the way, I was having a little fun with the "wigs and dresses" comment, but I applaud your thinking outside the box. Just really think this one (wigs and dresses) is not the answer. But good luck either way. :/
Lol yeah I think I'll just stick with the t-shirt and jeans!
They are the same here, and they are on top of it. One must use a hidden camera of some kind.Quote: charliepatrickI don't know the full rules in the US but in my local UK casino if you're on the phone or try to use it then you will be asked to take the phone away from the table.
Quote: AxelWolfThey are the same here, and they are on top of it. One must use a hidden camera of some kind.
If you posted a hidden camera video of playing BJ at a table, how difficult would it be for the casino to reverse engineer it and identify you?
Quote: billryanIf you posted a hidden camera video of playing BJ at a table, how difficult would it be for the casino to reverse engineer it and identify you?
thats exactly what i was warning him
I don't know. The real question is the legalities. I wouldn't assume it's illegal if it's not aiding your play. I'm wondering if any casino has ever given anyone permission to video record live BJ play? If it's illegal, then I would assume they can't legally allow it? Even if the casino gave someone permission to rig a slot machine, that would still be legal. I'll have to leave that to the law experts.Quote: billryanIf you posted a hidden camera video of playing BJ at a table, how difficult would it be for the casino to reverse engineer it and identify you?
It sounds like this guy is more interested in getting a social media following, or what have you, and not so much about his BJ longevity, so what's the worst that could happen?
Quote: AxelWolfI don't know. The real question is the legalities. I wouldn't assume it's illegal if it's not aiding your play. I'm wondering if any casino has ever given anyone permission to video record live BJ play? If it's illegal, then I would assume they can't legally allow it? Even if the casino gave someone permission to rig a slot machine, that would still be legal. I'll have to leave that to the law experts.
It sounds like this guy is more interested in getting a social media following, or what have you, and not so much about his BJ longevity, so what's the worst that could happen?
Thanks for the response AxelWolf. I agree with your opinion and while I'm no a law expert either, it does seem the logical conclusion is that the Casino could not give permission for an illegal act. Not sure how much of the thread (or previous) you have read on this topic, but I'm not interested in any kind of social media following. I specifically mention these streams will be private, only viewed by other players that request it for the purpose of team play. Originally I did not plan to use Facebook or YouTube, but a friend of mine suggested it would make the process much easier by simply creating a private group to stream to.
Quote: AxelWolfI don't know. The real question is the legalities. I wouldn't assume it's illegal if it's not aiding your play. I'm wondering if any casino has ever given anyone permission to video record live BJ play? If it's illegal, then I would assume they can't legally allow it? Even if the casino gave someone permission to rig a slot machine, that would still be legal. I'll have to leave that to the law experts.
It sounds like this guy is more interested in getting a social media following, or what have you, and not so much about his BJ longevity, so what's the worst that could happen?
i bet when the social media people make their contracts - and if i were a casino making this contract - i would limit the type of suggestions the person can take from the chat
because there is always a chat that the people are looking at
i would also put them on a 1 minute or so delay so that the information is not real time
lmao give me real-time video feed of a blackjack table and im watching - and waiting from my room and coming down to join after the count is in my favor - doesnt matter who took the video at first - hell i didnt even consider his stream could be sniped if there is any sign of what casino he could be at
it doesnt matter if hes only pointing the camera down (which SHOULD be the only angle he needs) pointing at the carpet i guarantee someone will know which carpet goes to which casino and add it to a potential list of casinos he might be at in the future
I would have to go back and read more about the reasons for doing this and announcing it here. I assume when it comes to stuff like this there's always more to it than people want to say. Personally, I don't mind if people have some master plan and want to tout their stuff, etc. I just prefer people to be upfront about it. I.E. Hey guys, I started x and I want it to be successful, and here's how I'm trying to monetize it.Quote: theOmega623Thanks for the response AxelWolf. I agree with your opinion and while I'm no a law expert either, it does seem the logical conclusion is that the Casino could not give permission for an illegal act. Not sure how much of the thread (or previous) you have read on this topic, but I'm not interested in any kind of social media following. I specifically mention these streams will be private, only viewed by other players that request it for the purpose of team play. Originally I did not plan to use Facebook or YouTube, but a friend of mine suggested it would make the process much easier by simply creating a private group to stream to.
So far, you seem like a nice guy who has some knowledge of BJ, so ill give you the benefit of the doubt. With that being said, I know how the so-called private groups eventually open up to more and more people and the next thing you know it's a full-blown "private" operation that got away from its original intent.
I wish you luck. I would love to check out your private stream, it sounds interesting if you can pull it off.
You bring up some good points, my hat is off to you.Quote: heatmapi bet when the social media people make their contracts - and if i were a casino making this contract - i would limit the type of suggestions the person can take from the chat
because there is always a chat that the people are looking at
i would also put them on a 1 minute or so delay so that the information is not real time
lmao give me real-time video feed of a blackjack table and im watching - and waiting from my room and coming down to join after the count is in my favor - doesnt matter who took the video at first - hell i didnt even consider his stream could be sniped if there is any sign of what casino he could be at
it doesnt matter if hes only pointing the camera down (which SHOULD be the only angle he needs) pointing at the carpet i guarantee someone will know which carpet goes to which casino and add it to a potential list of casinos he might be at in the future
I would really like to know what the law regarding this actually is. If I recall correctly, I think Allan M has called gaming and asked them various questions regarding the legalities of certain things(?).
Quote: AxelWolfI would have to go back and read more about the reasons for doing this and announcing it here. I assume when it comes to stuff like this there's always more to it than people want to say. Personally, I don't mind if people have some master plan and want to tout their stuff, etc. I just prefer people to be upfront about it. I.E. Hey guys, I started x and I want it to be successful, and here's how I'm trying to monetize it.
So far, you seem like a nice guy who has some knowledge of BJ, so ill give you the benefit of the doubt. With that being said, I know how the so-called private groups eventually open up to more and more people and the next thing you know it's a full-blown "private" operation that got away from its original intent.
I wish you luck. I would love to check out your private stream, it sounds interesting if you can pull it off.
I appreciate that AxelWolf and I agree 100% with what you're saying. My only purpose for a BJ play stream is to make it possible for BJ team members to view each others play, both in real-time and to act as somewhat of an archive. Now their are some obvious problems, like too much playing time to be watched, reliability of the stream, etc that hopefully can be worked out. But I think that having the ability to watch your teammates playing not only allows you to see the level of accuracy they are playing, but it creates a huge incentive for everyone to be honest about their playing time and their results. We all know most teams fail due to a lack of trust, and for good reason. But I'll keep you guys updated and hopefully this first test run will go well, again thanks for the feedback!
Quote: ChumpChangeI don't know why you're looking for trust from gamblers.
That's the whole point of the stream, obviously. There is a big difference between lying degenerate gamblers and educated determined advantage players. The idea is for this stream to serve as a valuable tool to help make that distinction.
Quote: MDawgSo you're using the streaming to coordinate your attack on the casino by communicating between team members?
As far as the Casino is concerned, I am documenting myself beating their game through the completely legal act of card counting with the intention of both providing content to others and protection for myself against any illegal detention by the Casino. We can beat this dead horse all day long. I also heard you can be beaten up and arrested for card counting..
Thanks for the entertaining video though, I'll try to find the clip from "21" where Morpheus beats up the nerdy kid.
Ben Affleck Kicked Out Of Casino For Card Counting - TYT May 7, 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZxuHAVIjzY
Casino Trespass For Counting Cards - YouTube
Blackjack Dude - Oct 21, 2020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4C_8cUgim4
Quote: ChumpChangeI've been watching video after video of card counters getting kicked off the tables in 5 minutes flat.
Yeah..it happens.
Quote: ChumpChangeI've been watching video after video of card counters getting kicked off the tables in 5 minutes flat.
Ben Affleck Kicked Out Of Casino For Card Counting - TYT May 7, 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZxuHAVIjzY
Casino Trespass For Counting Cards - YouTube
Blackjack Dude - Oct 21, 2020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4C_8cUgim4
Thanks for editing in that last link ChumpChange, that was actually a good watch lol. The guy has another one up, a video of both his playing and the backoff with pretty good clarity, can see the entire table and deck tray. I just subscribed to his channel and going to message him.
Backed off for Card Counting Tonight for the First Time as an Advantage Blackjack Player in Vegas - YouTube
885 Blackjack - Secrets From A Vegas Local
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_q2_c4V7GQ
Las Vegas Blackjack: Scouting Blackjack at South Point, Silverton, Palace Station & Ellis Island - 885 Blackjack - Secrets From A Vegas Local
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3h5XMuiAIo
Quote: ChumpChangeHere's a couple vids from a Blackjack vlogger, somebody with something to say.
Backed off for Card Counting Tonight for the First Time as an Advantage Blackjack Player in Vegas - YouTube
885 Blackjack - Secrets From A Vegas Local
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_q2_c4V7GQ
Las Vegas Blackjack: Scouting Blackjack at South Point, Silverton, Palace Station & Ellis Island - 885 Blackjack - Secrets From A Vegas Local
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3h5XMuiAIo
Awesome. Thanks!
If someone needs an incentive to be honest then you have bigger problems. That trust should be there before you ever do anything with that person. What happens when something goes wrong with the stream or it's not practical and now someone has a bad run? Since you were previously relying on the stream you will be suspicious any time something goes wrong.Quote: theOmega623I appreciate that AxelWolf and I agree 100% with what you're saying. My only purpose for a BJ play stream is to make it possible for BJ team members to view each others play, both in real-time and to act as somewhat of an archive. Now their are some obvious problems, like too much playing time to be watched, reliability of the stream, etc that hopefully can be worked out. But I think that having the ability to watch your teammates playing not only allows you to see the level of accuracy they are playing, but it creates a huge incentive for everyone to be honest about their playing time and their results. We all know most teams fail due to a lack of trust, and for good reason. But I'll keep you guys updated and hopefully this first test run will go well, again thanks for the feedback!
Sharing TMI publicly might catch you some heat from other Advantage Players. And now that they know what you are up to... Ill let you up the rest together.Quote: theOmega623On a different note, just spoke with my brother and we decided we are going to take a trip to the beach Easter weekend and go out on the Big M Casino boat in SC. This will officially be my first playing trip in over a year, I dont ever remember being this excited to take a blackjack trip lol. I won't be bothering with the stream (we will be out on the ocean) but I'll let you guys know how it goes. They actually have a great game, 6D S17 LS with really good penetration (less than a deck) and they tolerate a big spread (1-20). If any players on this forum are ever in that area, it's definitely worth the trip.
Quote: AxelWolfIf someone needs an incentive to be honest then you have bigger problems. That trust should be there before you ever do anything with that person. What happens when something goes wrong with the stream or it's not practical and now someone has a bad run? Since you were previously relying on the stream you will be suspicious any time something goes wrong.
I meant it in the way that there is no incentive to suspect a player may be untrustworthy, each team member would have the ability to watch each others play and results at anytime and do virtual test-outs to show skill level. As far as reliability of the stream, that's one I haven't quite figured out but I'm in no way suggesting that live streaming replace team trust 100%, only to help strengthen it and more importantly be used as a tool to help teams form from a distance.
