Blackjack Live Stream
Hopefully we'll be able to see what happens next if they do.
I'm taking the under that this even ever happens.
Quote: racquetBe interesting to see whether or not the casino can detect this, and what will happen when they do. I've heard that one of the reasons that they don't like phone use (beyond the obvious) is that they monitor signals near the table and that it interferes with that. I wonder if that's true and if your broadcasting a signal - video or otherwise - will be found out.
Hopefully we'll be able to see what happens next if they do.
I'm taking the under that this even ever happens.
Yes I agree, it will also serve as a way to record the entirety of a back off. I am hoping it goes well, there have been several players doing this successfully but I really want to get much better quality then what I've seen so far. I highly doubt they are tracking any kind of signal from the BJ tables as I havent seen or heard any evidence of such a thing..but I guess I'm going to find out!
I suggest you don't do it over the casino's free wifi $:o)Quote: theOmega623Yes I agree, it will also serve as a way to record the entirety of a back off. I am hoping it goes well, there have been several players doing this successfully but I really want to get much better quality then what I've seen so far. I highly doubt they are tracking any kind of signal from the BJ tables as I havent seen or heard any evidence of such a thing..but I guess I'm going to find out!
You will almost certainly be breaking casino rules, but more than that, maybe check your legal situation.
https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/question/videotaping-slot-play/
Now, the "device law" is different. That is law. But it is about using a device TO CHEAT. A casino is going to have a hard time showing how filming your own play is cheating. BUT...it is one of those situations where it could end up costing you money in lawyer and legal fees to win your case or prove your point.
Quote: kewljFilming and photographs inside a casino may be against a certain casino's policy or rules but it isn't against the law in Las Vegas. Here's a little article stating different "policies" at different casinos.
https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/question/videotaping-slot-play/
Now, the "device law" is different. That is law. But it is about using a device TO CHEAT. A casino is going to have a hard time showing how filming your own play is cheating. BUT...it is one of those situations where it could end up costing you money in lawyer and legal fees to win your case or prove your point.
Thank you Kewlj, this is my understanding as well. It's worth mentioning that on top of this they would have to both physically detain me for card counting and then destroy my clothing to find the embedded spy cam. And yes I will be doing this in Las Vegas, although not at any casino that I have been trespassed or backed off from (there are none).
Live Craps, May the Dice Gods Be With Us 🎲🙌🏼🐐 - YouTube (Link Deleted)
WMG blocked saving the video on copyright grounds immediately after the stream ended. There was background music which tends to be a no-no.
This was livestreamed from the Plaza Casino. There were two players. They each lost around $500 from what I heard.
Here's a saved livestream that may get deleted as soon as I post this, but I'd blame the algorithms for blocking a video first. But seriously, videos don't last long sometimes after a link gets posted somewhere.
Live Craps $1,000 Buy In. Not Stopping Until the Balance $4,000 Go Big or Go Home 🤷🏻♂️ - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNptHC1xvz8
Looks like he had a "host" set him up with a table.
He says he's shooting with a 4K camera, but the saved resolution is 720p. Maybe a 5G phone could make it work at 4K.
Partway in the sound went mute, probably a song had to be silenced.
The bad: I'd be quite concerned with legalities. Since you're ACTIVELY PLAYING the game, the casino could claim that you're using a device. When they bring gaming in to the backroom and gaming see's "spy equipment" on the table, it might make for a very odd conversation where you have to convince them that you're not getting signals from the van out front for perfect composition play... because that's also what a camera hidden on a blackjack player could be used for. I'd consult gaming themselves to ask what they would do in such case, and probably consult a good gambling lawyer who I will imagine will probably inform you it's a bad idea.. Let's say you get a huge following and you're a massive hit... your success will eventually be your own demise as word will start to get out to the casinos you're frequenting (names on casinos on chips, dealer outfits/name tags, etc, etc, etc). Then they will be hunting you all that much more.
Quote: RomesThe good: People want this. People enjoy seeing live play and especially real card counting. People will also want to see the back offs and this is a fantastic way to experience all the different kinds of back offs over time.
The bad: I'd be quite concerned with legalities. Since you're ACTIVELY PLAYING the game, the casino could claim that you're using a device. When they bring gaming in to the backroom and gaming see's "spy equipment" on the table, it might make for a very odd conversation where you have to convince them that you're not getting signals from the van out front for perfect composition play... because that's also what a camera hidden on a blackjack player could be used for. I'd consult gaming themselves to ask what they would do in such case, and probably consult a good gambling lawyer who I will imagine will probably inform you it's a bad idea.. Let's say you get a huge following and you're a massive hit... your success will eventually be your own demise as word will start to get out to the casinos you're frequenting (names on casinos on chips, dealer outfits/name tags, etc, etc, etc). Then they will be hunting you all that much more.
Thanks for your input Romes! Although I should mention this will not be particularly for YouTube or for just anyone to view, I will be setting this up for only certain people to view (people I know and certain members of this forum who request to view it). My goal really is to create an easy efficient way for other AP's to see your play and results, I cant help but imagine a team of players doing this. I would really like to start a small blackjack team in the future and I feel that something like this could create trust on a team when other members could view your play and results whenever they want, but I dont have all the details worked out yet. This is something I've been brainstorming on for a couple months now and just figured I would start here...to be honest the last thing on my mind lately has been the legality of it lol. I'm just not afraid of these casinos and per the law as I understand it, recording myself playing a game is no more illegal than card counting and in any case the burden of proof falls on the casino on whether or not they are being cheated. Really appreciate the responses from you guys!
This is the description I found..
"The latter stage of detection is carried out by an overhead stereo camera that uses contour analysis, template matching and a scale-invariant feature transform (SIFT) algorithm to keep track of and identify the value of cards as well as count players chips."
Quote: MintyWell I can't speak to how well surveillance software works, but I've heard that the software used to determine if someone is counting is pretty good. When I was a floorperson, we had to do our part in tracking wins and losses by constantly updating information on rated players.
Thanks for the response Minty! Sounds crazy to me but technology has the ability to do amazing things these days.
Quote: MintyYeah! This is a really cool idea and hope you're able to pull it off without any legal issues.
I appreciate that!!!
Your buy-in
Your cash-out
Your position at the table
Clock-in & clock-out
Anything else?
Your apparent average bets?
Seems so simple, no need to get barred for using a Players Card.
Quote: Givag327Would you be blurring out the other players, dealer, staff? That seems like a breach of privacy sort of use you cant really ask for permission to film them and post on the internet if its a tiny spy cam that you dont want anyone to see.
uploading to youboob they have a face blurring feature not sure about background blurring but i know slot lady normally has her videos blurred to the max.... this is a non issue IMO
well actually if you are live streaming that may be an actual issue lol that requires real time facial recognition, which is not out of the reach of an average person like me and you...
Quote: theOmega623On a different note, I have been reading up on how Casino's use software to track a players wins/losses and playing decisions to evaluate each player, but could only find limited information. Do any of you guys know anything about this kind of software? Perhaps someone on here that has worked in surveillance?
This is the description I found..
"The latter stage of detection is carried out by an overhead stereo camera that uses contour analysis, template matching and a scale-invariant feature transform (SIFT) algorithm to keep track of and identify the value of cards as well as count players chips."
I'm an advanced technology research engineer. These words:
" contour analysis, template matching and a scale-invariant feature transform (SIFT) algorithm"
refer to image analysis software; i.e., image recognition. None of that stuff has to do with analysis of blackjack decisions or player evaluation -that would all be separate software that is "game security" specific.
Quote: Viper21Not to speak for Omega but he stated earlier and in another thread the live stream is mostly for team player evaluation. Correct me if I'm wrong omega but your intent is not to post to YouTube or other streaming services but more personal use to evaluate play. So anyone commenting about comparing it to current live streamers seems moot as thats not his intent. While I personally wouldn't recommend using a recording device at the tables I see its appeal to reduce team theft and test out players.
That is correct Viper21, I have no plans to post on YouTube or any other site.
Sometimes it works fine. Perhaps you divide the total bill by the number of guests, come up with a round number, and each person pays that amount, equally. Per couple... don't include Grandma... don't worry about the kids... All these variables can often be worked out at the table, or in advance.
But then there's the times when someone, or several people, want to see the check to make sure that it's correct. Wait a minute! Who had the prime rib? We drank all that booze? What's fifteen percent of $314.25?
This is family and friends.
A business arrangement with people you might know barely at all? A "team"? Shared bankroll? Based on hours played by one individual compared with the group as a whole?
Sure. Let's add realtime video capture of hours, hours, and hours of play. Most of it will be like watching a baseball game. Maybe ten minutes of actual activity over the course of one "shift".
That'll work. For sure.
Quote: racquetI'm reminded of all the times I've split the bill at a restaurant.
Sometimes it works fine. Perhaps you divide the total bill by the number of guests, come up with a round number, and each person pays that amount, equally. Per couple... don't include Grandma... don't worry about the kids... All these variables can often be worked out at the table, or in advance.
But then there's the times when someone, or several people, want to see the check to make sure that it's correct. Wait a minute! Who had the prime rib? We drank all that booze? What's fifteen percent of $314.25?
This is family and friends.
A business arrangement with people you might know barely at all? A "team"? Shared bankroll? Based on hours played by one individual compared with the group as a whole?
Sure. Let's add realtime video capture of hours, hours, and hours of play. Most of it will be like watching a baseball game. Maybe ten minutes of actual activity over the course of one "shift".
That'll work. For sure.
Thanks for your response Racquet! I definitely wouldn't recommend having a player that you 'barely know at all', but adding a player that you have known online and conversated with for months or maybe years and you know has a good understanding of the game would not be so bad, for 2 reasons: the person would have their own stake of some amount and you would be able to view their play before adding them to your team. Just because you have met someone in person doesnt mean they are trustworthy. Another point, I dont by any means think it should be treated like a dinner with family lol. It should be treated as a business with very specific guidelines, as you would with any team. My point, if teams can work without this technology it certainly could work with it. Wouldn't you agree?
Even the small benefit to having your "team" tie into the stream for card count team purposes doesn't exceed the potential downside of getting busted for using an electronic device in furtherance of your scheme. (I don't know exactly what the rules or laws are for using an electronic device to further card counting under these circumstances, in your jurisdiction.)
Remember these guys - used a laser supposedly to track where the roulette wheel was biased to land based on various factors. They not only got away it, but the casinos even had to hand them all the money they won:
A group of gamblers who won more than £1m at the Ritz Casino in London by using laser technology have been told by police they can keep their winnings.
'Laser scam' gamblers to keep £1m
but the rules and laws where you are might not be the same, or might not apply to what you have in mind.
Player. Shoes played.
Jim. 205
Jack. 255
Mike. 390
Alex. 160
Tom. 225
Total Shoes Played: 1,235
Win rate per shoe: +$3.95
Pay Breakdown:
Jim. (+$809.75)
Jack. (+$1,007.25)
Mike. (+$1,540.50)
Alex. (+$632.00)
Tom. (+$888.75)
Regardless of each players actual results, funds are distributed to each player evenly after accounting for team profit made vs time spent playing (forgive me if my math is off, my math should always be double checked lol). Any player that had actual results larger than their earned amount would distribute funds to players with results of less than earned amount. Any play that a member feels the need to view can view it, but IMO there is zero incentive to be deceptive about your results. Everyone can view your play and you can view theirs, this is my opinion on how a team should work.
Is team play more profitable? If it's a team as seen in "21" (is that a realistic version of team play?) then there's a group of people splitting the proceeds from the play of fewer people than the group as a whole. I would think dividing my winnings by 1 (just me) would be better.
As far as pooling winnings or losses with other solo players, that's not for me. I guess I would, in fact, need the livestream to trust that what I was hearing from my "teammates" matched what really happened. I'd bet without the camera we'd hear a lot more tough luck stories since there would be no proof. I would bet a lot of team players report back to the team that they always did worse than the actual event.
I don't make it out to be a simple process, but there are a lot of things that depend on dedication, training and hard work. Those are things that are not enhanced or multiplied by a team. This is not football or baseball. More like tennis.
Quote: racquetTeam play to me as always seemed to be more trouble than it's worth. This is not a team sport. It's not so hard that it needs more than one person to keep count and figure out the proper bet amount. I certainly enjoy time in a casino with friends or relatives more than being there myself, but it always interferes with methodical play. The group never wants to stay in one situation long enough and differences of opinion among friends sooner or later crop up. I can't imagine where a business or profit-sharing scenario would improve that dynamic.
Is team play more profitable? If it's a team as seen in "21" (is that a realistic version of team play?) then there's a group of people splitting the proceeds from the play of fewer people than the group as a whole. I would think dividing my winnings by 1 (just me) would be better.
As far as pooling winnings or losses with other solo players, that's not for me. I guess I would, in fact, need the livestream to trust that what I was hearing from my "teammates" matched what really happened. I'd bet without the camera we'd hear a lot more tough luck stories since there would be no proof. I would bet a lot of team players report back to the team that they always did worse than the actual event.
I don't make it out to be a simple process, but there are a lot of things that depend on dedication, training and hard work. Those are things that are not enhanced or multiplied by a team. This is not football or baseball. More like tennis.
I get what you're saying Racquet, but I believe team play is more beneficial for many reasons: it allows multiple players to pool their bankrolls to play at higher stakes generating higher EV, it smoothes out the variance, and for me it's a source of comradery in an otherwise very lonely business. I'm referring to team play as players playing individually, not the big player method.
I think about my last trip to Vegas, I stayed for 4 days by myself as I usually do. I made a decent profit on the trip but I remember the flight home I was exhausted and thinking to myself 'I dont know if I can keep doing this', and I am someone extremely passionate about card counting. But the trips I took with a partner, who was a friend of mine, were great. We played for hours, would meet up to eat, talk about the game, what tables had good pen, it was just 100 times better. I know most players view AP play more like tennis but I think with the right people and right minds together, it can be a team sport!
When I travel to a casino city, it's almost always with someone (Mrs. Racquet) who has no use for gambling, high temperatures, or the desert. My excursions on my own are just that - lonely and without any opportunity to compare notes or improve play by relating one-on-one with someone who you can relate to.
Team play for the joy of a social relationship or for comparison and evaluation of the game - that would be great. But sharing finances or bankroll, tracking playing time or ROI? Fraught with potential blowups and arguments that cannot possibly ADD to the experience, money-wise or any other way. Not for me.
Quote: racquetI would certainly consider teaming up with someone, or with more than one person, to go and play on an individual basis. One of the things missing from this business is any kind of community, other than the totally random and unverifiable connections you can make here or in forums like this, and everything you read here must be filtered through a very fine BS filter.
When I travel to a casino city, it's almost always with someone (Mrs. Racquet) who has no use for gambling, high temperatures, or the desert. My excursions on my own are just that - lonely and without any opportunity to compare notes or improve play by relating one-on-one with someone who you can relate to.
Team play for the joy of a social relationship or for comparison and evaluation of the game - that would be great. But sharing finances or bankroll, tracking playing time or ROI? Fraught with potential blowups and arguments that cannot possibly ADD to the experience, money-wise or any other way. Not for me.
I agree with you 100%. It's the same way with my wife, in the beginning she did some traveling with me but after a handful of trips she was over it lol. While I feel that some sort of live streaming team play could possibly be the future of AP teams, even just being part of a small team playing individually would be pretty awesome!
