Stadium Blackjack

I thought there was a thread talking about blackjack or casino conditions or changes after the shutdown, but I could not find it so, I decided to start a thread on the new stadium blackjack that is popping up all over.

Stadium blackjack taking over for real felt, blackjack games has been a concern of mine for a couple years now. And during the shutdown, I commented that I believed this situation would only speed that up. Shortly after re-opening Stations casinos announced stadium blackjack (and roulette) sections at all 6 of their casinos that were open. I have also seen one or two other new stadium blackjack sections at casinos that I failed to note.

Today I was on the northern part of the strip and discovered 2 more. Circus Circus, used to have two gaming sections, on the lower level and then a second just up 5 stairs on the main floor. They have removed the second of those gaming area and when I was there today on a Friday afternoon, the first table area was completely closed except for about 20 newly opened stadium blackjack and roulettes terminals. This is EXACTLY what I was in fear of.

Next I headed to Treasure Island. They have not 1 but 2 new stadium blackjack and roulette sections. They did still have one pit open that had 2 blackjack games and 1 crap table.

Overall, definite signs of stadium blackjack replacing tradition felt blackjack games just as I feared. :-(

I saw Stadium Blackjack when it first showed up in the east at Mohegan CT. The thing that I thought mitigated against it had nothing to do with the game of blackjack, but rather with the interaction among the people you were with when sitting at a console, looking down, conscious of having to complete a wager and the following actions (hit, stand, double...) in a fixed time. It's not a game to be played while socializing. There's no time. Engage in a conversation and you miss the time slot that's been given to you to bet or play. How many people do you see gathered around a slot machine? All the table games, including craps and roulette, allow for group interaction. Not Stadium.

But how conducive to social interaction are table games today? With barriers between every player? With limited seating? Masks making it difficult to converse with your friends? "Felt" games have changed drastically in six months, such that the attraction of sitting at a felt table has disappeared. The significant social differences between felt as it exists today and Stadium no longer exist. I always considered any Stadium game as nothing more than another form of video gaming - slot machines for table games.

Stadium is cheaper to staff, all that a "dealer" needs to know is how to recognize between a green light and a red one, there are no mistakes in payouts or buy-ins, and tracking players is inherent in the way they have to interact with the machine - coin in - coin out. No AP, no possible +EV.

Until the social enticements of felt tables return, Stadium is going to be the way it is. On top of everything else, "real" blackjack is currently being played, everywhere, at 50% capacity per table. All things being equal with regard to traffic, volume, average bet, and everything else from a year ago, income is exactly one half of what it was.

Nobody is gonna stop you from counting cards at stadium blackjack. Bet whack, who cares.

Quote: kewlj

I thought there was a thread talking about blackjack or casino conditions or changes after the shutdown, but I could not find it so, I decided to start a thread on the new stadium blackjack that is popping up all over.

Stadium blackjack taking over for real felt, blackjack games has been a concern of mine for a couple years now. And during the shutdown, I commented that I believed this situation would only speed that up. Shortly after re-opening Stations casinos announced stadium blackjack (and roulette) sections at all 6 of their casinos that were open. I have also seen one or two other new stadium blackjack sections at casinos that I failed to note.

Today I was on the northern part of the strip and discovered 2 more. Circus Circus, used to have two gaming sections, on the lower level and then a second just up 5 stairs on the main floor. They have removed the second of those gaming area and when I was there today on a Friday afternoon, the first table area was completely closed except for about 20 newly opened stadium blackjack and roulettes terminals. This is EXACTLY what I was in fear of.

Next I headed to Treasure Island. They have not 1 but 2 new stadium blackjack and roulette sections. They did still have one pit open that had 2 blackjack games and 1 crap table.

Overall, definite signs of stadium blackjack replacing tradition felt blackjack games just as I feared. :-(

that's why you should always be diversifying, that way when something does change you are ahead of the curve, among other reasons as well.

Quote: ChumpChange

Nobody is gonna stop you from counting cards at stadium blackjack. Bet whack, who cares.

Please list all the stadium bj games you've seen that aren't dealt from csm.

Quote: AxelWolf

that's why you should always be diversifying, that way when something does change you are ahead of the curve, among other reasons as well.

Point taken.

I don't think stadium will ever completely kill off tables... Well, let me adjust that to say "in my lifetime." Eventually everything will be automated, but the old school of the world will demand real cards, chips, and dealers.

Quote: Romes

I don't think stadium will ever completely kill off tables... Well, let me adjust that to say "in my lifetime." Eventually everything will be automated, but the old school of the world will demand real cards, chips, and dealers.

One thing that has taken off during the lockdown is online bridge. It's much quicker, basically because slow players are timed out and bots play the hand out. Also you can't revoke, bid out of turn, etc. I now play every week with someone who lives miles away. It does seem you get more interesting hands, especially during the daily bot challenge events.

One thing lockdown has shown is the acceptance of social get togethers, virtual beer festivals etc. Also things like zoom meeting are now common place. So I can see one way to go is for casinos to offer social tables where you can play with your friends. I'm not sure what it means for bricks and mortar casinos but know that pubs which have reopened, with good social distancing or outside areas, have done very well.

I have seen a few electronic tables. A few years ago I played one with UTH - you still got real cards (except the computer knew what they were through a card reader on the shoe). It certainly helped the game payouts and at the end you cashed out for real chips.

It's really a shame that CSMs are used for the games. Would be nice to have these as an option in addition to regular blackjack. I agree that it's unlikely they'd totally replace blackjack tables. It wouldn't make sense for many casinos to do it. They are a good short term fix for some places though.

It's not that stadium blackjack is going to replace or kill off ALL traditional blackjack games. I think it will effect the lower limit games....your $10 and $15 games. Being a $25 and $50 table minimum player, it might not effect me for a while, although I could see stadium blackjack eventually replacing $25 games.

But even at killing off the lower limit games will effect me. Some of those players may gravitate to $25 minimum rather than play the stadium blackjack and that could make for worse conditions for me (more crowded, slower game).

Here is Vegas despite the influx of new stadium blackjack games, I don't see many people playing them. Usually almost all terminals are empty. It could just be because it is new to some of these locations. When I visit Pennsylvania, Windcreek (formally sands), which I haven't done since thanksgiving, the stadium blackjack is packed with players and their stadium blackjack can seat over 50 players.

Adapt or die.

Quote: billryan

Adapt or die.

Adapt or die sooner seems more accurate.

Yeah. We are already seeing players play higher stakes than they would otherwise, so your point about the moving to higher minimum tables does sound about right.

Advances in technology are what's doing this. Any "analog" game that depended on human dealers, cards and chips was at the high end of its art before technology made that method of delivery obsolete. You couldn't offer stadium blackjack, or even CSMs, when the size, expense, and cost of these "enhancements" made them prohibitive.

Just like card counting, the opportunity to run a simulation, when the computer it was run on was the size of a railroad car, made mathematical analysis of the game impossible, from a practical point of view. Technology has advanced capabilities on both sides of the table.

Surveillance was analog too. Eyes-in-the-sky were just that a few years ago: humans on catwalks above the casino floor with binoculars. Reliance on floors and pit bosses to deter counters is a vestige of a time long past. It won't be long before even "eyes" won't be needed. Machine-based algorithms will ferret out APs, tailor comps and freeplay to those individuals that are the most profitable to the casino, and monitor how those perks are used so as to insure that there are no profitable alternatives there as well.

Moore's Law predicted all of this. The cost of the technology is all that has kept it out of every single facet of our lives. It's becoming more obvious because of the speed with which it is overwhelming everything we do.

I started playing when I could find as many $5 minimum, six-deck, S17, 3/2, surrender games as I wanted, less than fifty miles from my home. None of those options exist today, and I bemoan "the good old days", which ended less than two years ago. How foolish I was not to quit my day job back then. Too late now.

I believe anyone who is willing and able to put in the time required to make a living playing blackjack or video poker would be much better off using the time to learn other ways to beat the casinos.
When I first moved to the Valley, a casino within a short walk advertised in the local Pennysaver type paper. They offered a $10 Matchplay and $10 Free slot play. I figured it was worth about $14 a day, or $28 if you made two visits. It wasn't worth it to me, but my neighbor was really struggling and $400 a month was a lifesaver to her. She'd asked her son for help repeatedly but he couldn't afford it. Once he heard she was going to casinos every day, he was so afraid she would blow his inheritance that he managed to come up with a few hundred dollars on a regular basis.
I had her sign up for an Emeral Isle card and after two days of play, I'd earned enough points on it for her to get two free meals a week. Her only income was from Social Security and after rent and medicines, she simply didn't have enough left to live on.