Rounding up on a blackjack
August 16th, 2020 at 11:26:58 PM
permalink
Hi all.
I was under the impression that when an improper bet hits a blackjack for 3:2, the payoff is always rounded down to the nearest 50¢. I recently learned however that a surprising number of jurisdictions round the payout up instead of down.
What is the effect on the house advantage when the payout is rounded up instead of down?
On a $5.50 bet, getting paid $8.50 is a 17/11 payoff, or 1.5454.
On a $25.50 bet, getting paid $38.50 is a 77/51 payoff, or 1.5098. So clearly the returns diminish quickly.
I was under the impression that when an improper bet hits a blackjack for 3:2, the payoff is always rounded down to the nearest 50¢. I recently learned however that a surprising number of jurisdictions round the payout up instead of down.
What is the effect on the house advantage when the payout is rounded up instead of down?
On a $5.50 bet, getting paid $8.50 is a 17/11 payoff, or 1.5454.
On a $25.50 bet, getting paid $38.50 is a 77/51 payoff, or 1.5098. So clearly the returns diminish quickly.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland.
And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with.
- AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
August 16th, 2020 at 11:36:07 PM
permalink
Just bet in multiples of $2.
August 16th, 2020 at 11:41:48 PM
permalink
In craps an improper bet on "odds" is either returned to the player or paid at even money or paid as a place bet. I think each casino makes its own rules on this.
August 17th, 2020 at 12:31:53 AM
permalink
It's up to the dealer to correct the bet - I've seen people try to play £2.50 chips on BJ (these are sometimes used on £5 tables and I've even seen them as the base bet on 3CP) and before dealing the dealer either changes it and gives 50p change (most BJ tables have 50p) or returns the chip.
Naturally if someone rounds up then it's in your interest to bet 5.50, as the 50c is a positive EV.
Naturally if someone rounds up then it's in your interest to bet 5.50, as the 50c is a positive EV.
August 17th, 2020 at 7:46:28 AM
permalink
I think I've seen a few "round-down" payouts on a blackjack, and enough arguments about it when it does happen that rounding up is the normal outcome. I've heard dealers say that "2.50 pays 4" on a blackjack, if they can't pay exactly 3.75 which is what a 3:2 payout is on a pink chip.
This only happens on a low-limit table where pink chips come into play often enough, and where low-limit players want every penny they are entitled to.
Although I have seen players go out of their way to confuse and piss off dealers by betting a rainbow of chips on a single bet - $7.50, $18.50, and so on. The extra time required to break down the bet when paying it off, along with the mental math needed by the dealer, is aggravating. Which is the whole point, usually.
This only happens on a low-limit table where pink chips come into play often enough, and where low-limit players want every penny they are entitled to.
Although I have seen players go out of their way to confuse and piss off dealers by betting a rainbow of chips on a single bet - $7.50, $18.50, and so on. The extra time required to break down the bet when paying it off, along with the mental math needed by the dealer, is aggravating. Which is the whole point, usually.
August 17th, 2020 at 8:05:36 AM
permalink
I accidentally " discovered " this years ago and reckoned it was worth about a dollar an hour to the player.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
August 17th, 2020 at 3:39:21 PM
permalink
In AC they use to keep actual 25 cent quarters in the dealer's chip rack in the event someone bet a $2.50 chip and got a winning Blackjack. Every casino, except Tropicana, has done away with this and round's up to $4 for the pink chip. I guess the owner's really need to keep those extra quarters to make their bottom line?
It also becomes a nuisance in casinos that offer surrender as they have to round up to $2 when a bet with a $2.50 chip.
It also becomes a nuisance in casinos that offer surrender as they have to round up to $2 when a bet with a $2.50 chip.
August 17th, 2020 at 6:45:43 PM
permalink
Anyone remember $1 blackjack at the old Sahara? Did they have fifty cent chips?
I played the $1 game a little bit, but never got a blackjack.
I played the $1 game a little bit, but never got a blackjack.
August 17th, 2020 at 7:12:29 PM
permalink
At Bally's AC, they had plenty of quarters to collect their 25 cent Hand fee!
However, most of the time they give you a $2.50 chip and put the $1 chip back in the rack, hence you make $1.50. Makes things easier that way if someone puts a dollar toke for the dealer on the hand and it hits BJ.
However, most of the time they give you a $2.50 chip and put the $1 chip back in the rack, hence you make $1.50. Makes things easier that way if someone puts a dollar toke for the dealer on the hand and it hits BJ.
August 17th, 2020 at 8:41:31 PM
permalink
Sounds about right.Quote: billryanI accidentally " discovered " this years ago and reckoned it was worth about a dollar an hour to the player.
Assume 60 hands per hour and 3 blackjacks per hour. Even at a full 50c roundup that’s a whopping $1.50 per hour.
It’s all about making that GTA
August 17th, 2020 at 9:10:41 PM
permalink
Quote: Ace2Sounds about right.
Assume 60 hands per hour and 3 blackjacks per hour. Even at a full 50c roundup that’s a whopping $1.50 per hour.
Which is exactly enough to cancel out the HE on a $5 blackjack game with a 0.5% HE playing basic strategy.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
August 17th, 2020 at 9:42:13 PM
permalink
Factor in 3 free beers per hour you’re at a 5% advantage!Quote: unJonWhich is exactly enough to cancel out the HE on a $5 blackjack game with a 0.5% HE playing basic strategy.
It’s all about making that GTA
August 17th, 2020 at 9:55:20 PM
permalink
Quote: AlanMendelsonAnyone remember $1 blackjack at the old Sahara? Did they have fifty cent chips?
I played the $1 game a little bit, but never got a blackjack.
I think BJ paid even money.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
August 17th, 2020 at 9:57:58 PM
permalink
Quote: Ace2Factor in 3 free beers per hour you’re at a 5% advantage!
Add in a set of WIN cards and an LVA matchplay and it's low roller paradise.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
August 17th, 2020 at 10:25:08 PM
permalink
I assume that $5 Blackjack is available downtown only and maybe only midweek
I haven’t been downtown in a while.
I haven’t been downtown in a while.
It’s all about making that GTA
August 17th, 2020 at 10:49:18 PM
permalink
Quote: Ace2I assume that $5 Blackjack is available downtown only and maybe only midweek
I haven’t been downtown in a while.
You'll find $5 Blackjack at Red Rock and Suncoast. I think they even pay 3/2.
August 18th, 2020 at 10:49:57 PM
permalink
In Vegas you can also check O'Sheas, Excal, Circus Circus.
August 18th, 2020 at 11:01:26 PM
permalink
With an avg of 3 players the casino is making $4.50 per hour per table. Tripling that edge due to poor play, it’s still only $13.50.
How can a casino even pay the dealers wage with that...before considering free drinks and overhead ?
How can a casino even pay the dealers wage with that...before considering free drinks and overhead ?
It’s all about making that GTA
August 18th, 2020 at 11:08:05 PM
permalink
I'm sure they may have, but the chances are they just use a 50 cent piece.Quote: AlanMendelsonAnyone remember $1 blackjack at the old Sahara? Did they have fifty cent chips?
I played the $1 game a little bit, but never got a blackjack.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
August 19th, 2020 at 6:41:10 AM
permalink
No. BJ paid even money. For that reason I would double down on BJ. The looks I got were worth it in the entertainment value. Ditto for splitting tens.Quote: AlanMendelsonAnyone remember $1 blackjack at the old Sahara? Did they have fifty cent chips?
On a side note, in AC, the rule is that bets that can’t be paid correctly must be rounded up. That made $1 toke bets on 5,6,8,9 in craps the best bet in the house.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 19th, 2020 at 11:02:51 PM
permalink
Quote: Deucekies(snip)
What is the effect on the house advantage when the payout is rounded up instead of down?
On a $5.50 bet, getting paid $8.50 is a 17/11 payoff, or 1.5454.
On a $25.50 bet, getting paid $38.50 is a 77/51 payoff, or 1.5098. So clearly the returns diminish quickly.
For the $5.50 bet example, I think there is about a 0.21% reduction in house edge (edit about 1120 pm: or a reduction of about 1.13 cents per hand).
Here is the formula I used, see below:
("Odds you are receiving for your BJ" - "odds you normally receive for a BJ") x ("Chance of the player having a BJ" x "the chance of the dealer not having a BJ")
(1.5454... - 1.5) x (1/21 x 20/21) = 0.0454.... x 1/22 = 0.002066... = ~ 0.21%
Note: I used approximate figures, rather than "100% accurate figures", for the chances of getting a BJ
Last edited by: ksdjdj on Aug 19, 2020
