kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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July 21st, 2020 at 3:01:42 PM permalink
Quote: theOmega623

And yeah, every counter knows playing at the El Cortez is a waste of time lol



I read this sentiment alot. I don't do myself any favors by arguing but what the hell.....I luv EC. Lol.
kewlj
kewlj
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July 21st, 2020 at 3:04:46 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

I just read a blast from the past on the perils of card counting teams. If you google Cigar Afficiando, blackjack teams, the story from the summer of 2003 pops up. I was playing pretty regularly back then and had been approached by someone in Vegas who said he had been watching me play and he was putting together a team. I was flattered but it seemed off. Then I read the article.



Could you provide a link billryan?

Is this a reference to disposable players? A lot of teams were doing that about that time. Just burning through players. :(

Much more beneficial to the team than individual players.
theOmega623
theOmega623
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July 21st, 2020 at 3:19:11 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

I read this sentiment alot. I don't do myself any favors by arguing but what the hell.....I luv EC. Lol.



You count cards at El Cortez? I've personally never tried playing there because it's said by so many players to be such a quick back off.
kewlj
kewlj
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July 21st, 2020 at 3:29:26 PM permalink
Quote: theOmega623

You count cards at El Cortez? I've personally never tried playing there because it's said by so many players to be such a quick back off.



I have played there a few times. lol
theOmega623
theOmega623
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July 21st, 2020 at 3:29:33 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Could you provide a link billryan?

Is this a reference to disposable players? A lot of teams were doing that about that time. Just burning through players. :(

Much more beneficial to the team than individual players.



What exactly do you mean by burning through players? Like having them run an extremely large spread causing them to get backed off everywhere?
theOmega623
theOmega623
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July 21st, 2020 at 3:30:45 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

I have played there a few times. lol



Next time I'm in Vegas I might make my way over to EC just to see how long I last lol
kewlj
kewlj
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Thanks for this post from:
heatmap
July 21st, 2020 at 3:38:34 PM permalink
Quote: theOmega623

What exactly do you mean by burning through players? Like having them run an extremely large spread causing them to get backed off everywhere?



Well basically yes.

Basically the players played very aggressively for a short period. Maybe you get 6 months, maybe a year depending on the team and how much they travel. When the player started accumulating enough back offs that he had basically burned out his face, he was no longer an asset and they would move on to other players. Hence the "disposable players".

If you were a player just looking to make some money quickly, it was ok. If you had any interest in any amount of longevity, forget it, you would have a hard time playing after being burned out. So it depended on the players goals.

I was recruited by a pretty well know team a few years later than what billryan mentioned, maybe 2006 or 2007. As a young player, with a very small BR, it seemed like a good opportunity to make more money in a short time than I could on my own. Luckily for me, several players got a hold of me privately and advised against it and explained why. Declining was the best decision I made.
theOmega623
theOmega623
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July 21st, 2020 at 3:45:26 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Well basically yes.

Basically the players played very aggressively for a short period. Maybe you get 6 months, maybe a year depending on the team and how much they travel. When the player started accumulating enough back offs that he had basically burned out his face, he was no longer an asset and they would move on to other players. Hence the "disposable players".

If you were a player just looking to make some money quickly, it was ok. If you had any interest in any amount of longevity, forget it, you would have a hard time playing after being burned out. So it depended on the players goals.

I was recruited by a pretty well know team a few years later than what billryan mentioned, maybe 2006 or 2007. As a young player, with a very small BR, it seemed like a good opportunity to make more money in a short time than I could on my own. Luckily for me, several players got a hold of me privately and advised against it and explained why. Declining was the best decision I made.



Yeah that makes sense, especially if you're hitting the same general areas over and over. I consider my play somewhat aggressive and made the decision that I dont mind traveling around but I have not had problems with back offs. If you dont mind me asking, what type of spread do you generally use?
kewlj
kewlj
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July 21st, 2020 at 3:51:11 PM permalink
Quote: theOmega623

Next time I'm in Vegas I might make my way over to EC just to see how long I last lol



Here's what I will say about El Co. A lot of players, especially newer players look at getting backed off at EC as some sort of badge of honor. They think it confirms you are doing something right. That is just flat out silly. EC backs off any one varying bets. A player could be doing it backwards betting small in + EV situations and large in -EV situations and EC will back them off. It is the varying bets that they are looking for.

So I look at it the other way. If you can succeed there....you can succeed anywhere. Now, nobody can play there for long periods. No matter what you do, it has to be for very short sessions. If you are a local, many short sessions add up though. lol

And the real beauty about EC is they are independent. They don't subscribe to or contribute to databases. They just do their own thing based on mostly varying bets, but whatever the pit feels like that day. And maybe most important, nothing is permanent there. Backoffs mean you can't play any more right then. Tomorrow is another day. lol

But you have to be creative. Don't just spread one way, the same spread and ramp over and over.
kewlj
kewlj
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July 21st, 2020 at 3:53:34 PM permalink
Quote: theOmega623

If you dont mind me asking, what type of spread do you generally use?



Not going to answer publicly. Maybe I will PM you.

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