Blackjack Team

Quote: kewlj

90 miles isn't that far to commute to Vegas a couple times a week. For 5 and a half years I lived in Philadelphia and commuted to Atlantic City to play. (This was before Pa had table games). Most blackjack AP's do a lot of travel all over the country.

But....I am probably not going to make that move right now.

90 miles is 90 minutes each way. And then you hit and run several casinos in a row? That's a lot of commuting miles. But they would be tax deductible on your Schedule C.

Once you get out of Vegas, it's a 75 MPH speed limit that few observe.

For me personally, the biggest benefit to playing with a partner is having someone to travel with and share the experience. Another idea I've had is to form a team of players who are currently operating solo just to have some comradery, keeping bankrolls separate and just traveling, sharing info and helping eachother. Of course the main point of a team is having a shared bankroll, but I think building trust with a group of players could be a great way to maybe get there eventually.

The idea of equal investment is good, the idea of equal pay without regard to amount of work or EV generated is bad and is asking for bad feelings to develop or for more productive and hard working players not to play on such a team. Some will be able to and have the desire to work more unless you limit them. I’d recommend some amount of the pay based on investment and some amount based on work, what the right balance of that is is debatable and depends on the makeup of a specific team, depends much on how important the investment is for players being able to generate the EV and perhaps how long team has been together (probably less capital risk if players together longer know they can trust each other.) If you have hard working and capable players willing and able to invest more than the equal percentage then too much of the split going to investment will dilute their earnings and there’s not much incentive for them to be on a team in that structure.

I play solo but have played on structures between 50/50 and 80/20, within the same team. All investors were always players and always had equal investment. Went back from 80/20 to 70-30 towards the end but the more player heavy structure came after players had played together for a few years, everyone had made at least 200k and the investment was less important to ability to generate EV. There were a couple full time players and we had stats for $ earned per EV generated, they became lopsided over time with players playing unequal amounts and it simply would not have made sense for most productive players to remain without an adjustment in pay structure.

Quote: mcallister3200

The idea of equal investment is good, the idea of equal pay without regard to amount of work or EV generated is bad and is asking for bad feelings to develop or for more productive and hard working players not to play on such a team. Some will be able to and have the desire to work more unless you limit them. I’d recommend some amount of the pay based on investment and some amount based on work, what the right balance of that is is debatable and depends on the makeup of a specific team, depends much on how important the investment is for players being able to generate the EV and perhaps how long team has been together (probably less capital risk if players together longer know they can trust each other.) If you have hard working and capable players willing and able to invest more than the equal percentage then too much of the split going to investment will dilute their earnings and there’s not much incentive for them to be on a team in that structure.

I play solo but have played on structures between 50/50 and 80/20, within the same team. All investors were always players and always had equal investment. Went back from 80/20 to 70-30 towards the end but the more player heavy structure came after players had played together for a few years, everyone had made at least 200k and the investment was less important to ability to generate EV. There were a couple full time players and we had stats for $ earned per EV generated, they became lopsided over time with players playing unequal amounts and it simply would not have made sense for most productive players to remain without an adjustment in pay structure.

I absolutely agree!

Thanks for your response mcallister3200, that's interesting.

When I played on a shared bankroll with my friend, we played the same system and the same amount of time so it made sense to have an even split. The problem I ran into was that I was taking many more trips, I would play on a shared bankroll with him and then my own bankroll when taking solo trips. We would spread $5 - $50 when playing on a trip together, then I would spread $25 - $250 playing on my own bankroll. While I enjoyed the trips with him much more, it really didn't make sense for me to play smaller stakes and generate less EV.

You should both have played $25-$250 and have a bankroll split of 80%-20% or whatever percentage of the bankroll he can come up with.
You would both played the same levels, but you get 80% of the results (win or lose) and you are responsible for 80% of the expenses.
It doesn't make sense to play smaller stakes and generate less EV for you because he cannot commit for the same amount.
If on the other side you weren't 100% sure of his level of competence, then even at $5-$50 it wouldn't make sense to team up with this player.

Quote: GMan

You should both have played $25-$250 and have a bankroll split of 80%-20% or whatever percentage of the bankroll he can come up with.
You would both played the same levels, but you get 80% of the results (win or lose) and you are responsible for 80% of the expenses.
It doesn't make sense to play smaller stakes and generate less EV for you because he cannot commit for the same amount.
If on the other side you weren't 100% sure of his level of competence, then even at $5-$50 it wouldn't make sense to team up with this player.

Yes I agree that would have been better.

I have a question maybe one of you guys might be able to answer: Do you know if it is legal to use a spy cam while playing? I did a Google search but couldn't really find a definitive answer. I was thinking that live streaming all blackjack play through a spy cam would be a way to both evaluate team members play and know for sure how much each player wins or loses, anyone had this idea? I had assumed it was illegal to use any device while playing.

Quote: theOmega623

I have a question maybe one of you guys might be able to answer: Do you know if it is legal to use a spy cam while playing? I did a Google search but couldn't really find a definitive answer. I was thinking that live streaming all blackjack play through a spy cam would be a way to both evaluate team members play and know for sure how much each player wins or loses, anyone had this idea? I had assumed it was illegal to use any device while playing.

I would say yes no matter what but if were getting technical, if the spy cam is connected to a computer that allows you to statistically remember and analyze the cards that have come out YES, but i am not a lawyer so dont quote me but NO if its just a camera recording play.

There are a FEW people on youtube who risk their (livelihoods?) who play games on hidden cameras.

Buuuuuut. If your like the SlotLady on Youtube, you could PAY a casino to let you film. Must be hard to do though. Casinos dont want you to film at all usually and i think its more of a privacy thing for the OTHER people who are there. You have to point the cameras down and you cant get the dealers face in... youtube has an automated face blur tool though so that shouldnt be a problem.

i say go for it. but you better have every step planned out.

It has to be small.

you need a battery (those are small these days)

it needs to be embedded in your clothing, so they have to destroy your clothing to get to it - they wont want to do that

and it needs to be able to be disconnected from the battery easily so you can say the battery is for charging your phone.

if i didnt already have this planned i wouldnt be telling you this stuff but i figured i would give you a head start because it wasnt hard to think about that basic stuff. Im way ahead of you - as well as many other people.

https://web.archive.org/web/20050216091208/http://www.casey-computer.com/

That link is an archive of what the "most popular" computers used to do. and the device laws are modeled after these computers from what i understand.