unJon
unJon
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
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July 21st, 2020 at 7:07:41 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Reporters get what they can get. Sometimes a company will release videos and sometimes they won't. Sometimes the police get videos and then they can become public. Sometimes videos are locked and you need a freedom of information request to get them and a court order.

The press has no special entitlements to evidence.

Where the press does have protection includes shielding sources and informants.

I once testified for a defendant in a rape case. My testimony concerned the length of his hair. I testified it was short. The victim said it was long.

The defendant and I had an encounter the morning before the alleged rape. The point of my testimony was that his hair couldn't grow so much in only a few hours.

The DA during his cross examination asked me how I happened to meet the defendant that morning?

I sat there and said nothing and I looked at the Judge.

Then the DA said, question withdrawn.

Now I can talk about it. The defendant met me to ask for help because the police were looking for him IN A DIFFERENT RAPE CASE. He needed help to get a lawyer.



Alan, interesting story. Thanks for sharing. One question if you don’t mind asking. It sounds like the defendant wasn’t meeting you in your capacity as a reporter, and was not a “source” or “informant” during the meeting in question. Fair or not? Just curious about the breadth of the journalistic protection and whether if the prosecutor had pushed his question if you might have been forced to answer.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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July 21st, 2020 at 8:16:55 AM permalink
Quote: unJon

Alan, interesting story. Thanks for sharing. One question if you don’t mind asking. It sounds like the defendant wasn’t meeting you in your capacity as a reporter, and was not a “source” or “informant” during the meeting in question. Fair or not? Just curious about the breadth of the journalistic protection and whether if the prosecutor had pushed his question if you might have been forced to answer.



Of course he was talking to me as a reporter. I'll give you more info.

I was the daytime reporter at Channel 5 in Syracuse. It was my first TV job. It was a Saturday. As the daytime reporter I had to go to five or six different events. One story would be my main story for the 6pm news, and the others might be just to shoot some video or to do a quick interview with a politician or at some community protest.

It was at an art show in North Syracuse that this vagrant looking guy came up to me. He says "are you a reporter?" I said yes. And he says "I need help. The cops are looking for me. I've been accused of raping this woman."

We chatted briefly and I told him I would help him find a lawyer. He didnt have a phone so I gave him a piece of paper with my phone number. I told him to call me.

He didnt call, but a couple of weeks later a lawyer called me to ask if I remembered talking to a man at the North Syracuse art show. The lawyer asked me to describe him. I gave him a detailed description and when I mentioned the length of his hair and his short sideburns the lawyer stopped me. That's when he said "I need you to repeat that in court."

I talked to my news director... Andy Brigham who in the 1970s was a famous investigative journalist, and he said we have an obligation to give this guy a fair chance in court... and I testified.

His lawyer specifically wanted me to testify because I had correctly described how he looked including his clothing and hair without prompting. I was blessed with a remarkable memory. Even to this day, some 44 years later, I remember exactly what he looked like even the beat up knee length dark green trenchcoat he was wearing.

The bottom line is he approached me as a reporter.
sabre
sabre
Joined: Aug 16, 2010
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July 21st, 2020 at 8:26:45 AM permalink
Your memory can't be that good, you think you saw 18 yos in a row at a craps table.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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July 21st, 2020 at 8:29:32 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

That movie is filled with so much ....The list could go on and on with that film

pure Hollywood, but most important is that the nearby Indian casion cleaned them out. despite their couting skills.
theOmega623
theOmega623
Joined: Oct 30, 2014
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July 21st, 2020 at 8:31:44 AM permalink
Basically, I am thinking of worse case scenario here. For example, you get caught counting and you are approached by security and they want to detain you. We all know that normally they have no legal right to do this, all they can do is ask you to leave and not return or trespass you. On the extremely rare occasion, counters have been forced to a back room and interrogated. Most counters will never experience anything like this, but on the extreme off chance they did and found your hidden cam could you be charged with cheating using a device?
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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Thanks for this post from:
WTflush
July 21st, 2020 at 9:06:13 AM permalink
Quote: theOmega623

, but on the extreme off chance they did and found your hidden cam could you be charged with cheating using a device?



In my opinion, you could be charged. Would it stick? that is another matter. But it would cost you money and time to find out and that is where the whole thing just isn't worth it to me.

Now, you do raise an interesting point in this day and age of body cams and protecting oneself. but just not worth it to me. If you want to go this route, there are recording apps on your phone, which would allow you to start recording in the event of a backroom or illegal detention. And of course you should have a game plan as to what you would do in the event of such a situation. If you are playing Vegas, that plan should include having Mr. Nersesian on speed dial.

I personally have never made it to a backroom situation. I'll repeat the story of the one time I came close. It was probably 12-13 years ago, before I moved to Vegas. I was here for a month playing. I was playing the strip and was backed off and surrounded by a couple suits and security and told to accompany them. As we turned down a hallway leading off the floor, I told one of the suits I wanted to call my attorney, Bob Nersesian. At mention of Bob's name, the entire party came to a halt. One of the suits spun around, glared at me for 5 second which seemed like years and scowled "go on get out of here". I think I may still hold the world record for 50 yard dash to the door. LOL!

By the way, I didn't know Mr. Nersesian at the time, nor had ever spoken to him. When I relayed that story to him years later, he tells me he should bill me for that incident.

Are you in Vegas, Omega? Wherever you play, you should have some sort of pre-planned idea of how you would handle a backroom situation. In Vegas, backrooming has become almost non existent now a days, in no small part because of Mr. Nersesian, but you do have casinos employing security that are completely unqualified and incompetent, and every once in a while you read about a case, so I would have a plan. Other, newer states and jurisdictions are a little behind Las Vegas in learning these lessons, and you still read about cases as they learn their lessons. Always have a plan.
theOmega623
theOmega623
Joined: Oct 30, 2014
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July 21st, 2020 at 9:25:08 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

In my opinion, you could be charged. Would it stick? that is another matter. But it would cost you money and time to find out and that is where the whole thing just isn't worth it to me.

Now, you do raise an interesting point in this day and age of body cams and protecting oneself. but just not worth it to me. If you want to go this route, there are recording apps on your phone, which would allow you to start recording in the event of a backroom or illegal detention. And of course you should have a game plan as to what you would do in the event of such a situation. If you are playing Vegas, that plan should include having Mr. Nersesian on speed dial.

I personally have never made it to a backroom situation. I'll repeat the story of the one time I came close. It was probably 12-13 years ago, before I moved to Vegas. I was here for a month playing. I was playing the strip and was backed off and surrounded by a couple suits and security and told to accompany them. As we turned down a hallway leading off the floor, I told one of the suits I wanted to call my attorney, Bob Nersesian. At mention of Bob's name, the entire party came to a halt. One of the suits spun around, glared at me for 5 second which seemed like years and scowled "go on get out of here". I think I may still hold the world record for 50 yard dash to the door. LOL!

By the way, I didn't know Mr. Nersesian at the time, nor had ever spoken to him. When I relayed that story to him years later, he tells me he should bill me for that incident.

Are you in Vegas, Omega? Wherever you play, you should have some sort of pre-planned idea of how you would handle a backroom situation. In Vegas, backrooming has become almost non existent now a days, in no small part because of Mr. Nersesian, but you do have casinos employing security that are completely unqualified and incompetent, and every once in a while you read about a case, so I would have a plan. Other, newer states and jurisdictions are a little behind Las Vegas in learning these lessons, and you still read about cases as they learn their lessons. Always have a plan.



Thanks for the input Kewlj! Always like to hear stories of personal experience from players, and yes alot of my play is in Vegas. I am honestly not worried for myself, I worked as a security guard for many years and I know full well what my rights are as a card counter, security certainly has to answer for their use of force and I think the vast majority of casinos these days know better. I would never voluntarily be back roomed or consent to search, they would have to physically force me and im aware that this type of thing is basically extinct when it comes to casinos and card counters these days, mostly due to Bob Nersesian. I listened to him on GWAE, it's important to know what you can and cant do as an AP. More than anything, I would want to reassure any players I might partner with that they are not doing anything illegal by wearing a spy cam. I cant help but feel that live streaming play in some way could pave the way for large teams of AP's to group together without fear of being ripped off.
heatmap
heatmap
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
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July 21st, 2020 at 9:48:26 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Do you mean legal under state or federal or tribal law, or do you mean permitted under casino rules?



Do tribal law take precedence over state and federal law? Or is it Federal -> state & tribal
heatmap
heatmap
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
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July 21st, 2020 at 10:03:59 AM permalink
Quote: theOmega623

Thanks for the input Kewlj! Always like to hear stories of personal experience from players, and yes alot of my play is in Vegas. I am honestly not worried for myself, I worked as a security guard for many years and I know full well what my rights are as a card counter, security certainly has to answer for their use of force and I think the vast majority of casinos these days know better. I would never voluntarily be back roomed or consent to search, they would have to physically force me and im aware that this type of thing is basically extinct when it comes to casinos and card counters these days, mostly due to Bob Nersesian. I listened to him on GWAE, it's important to know what you can and cant do as an AP. More than anything, I would want to reassure any players I might partner with that they are not doing anything illegal by wearing a spy cam. I cant help but feel that live streaming play in some way could pave the way for large teams of AP's to group together without fear of being ripped off.



like i said embed the camera in your clothing. There are plenty of hidden cameras on amazon that will suffice tbh and they sell ones that look like buttons on clothing. And the expensive cameras that are for security purposes, are like 1000 times the price PER camera that you could buy on amazon, and if one breaks its so much cheaper. Youll end up with broken ones that you have parts from others to fix with.

The only thing about the amazon ones are quality of picture. So you said that you need to simply just review what happens, so quality shouldnt be that much of a priority, because usually when you want to go SMALL you have to sacrifice quality of the image.



The smallest cheapest spy camera censors of the cameras on amazon are max .5in x .5in x .5in - which is actually kind of big
theOmega623
theOmega623
Joined: Oct 30, 2014
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July 21st, 2020 at 10:44:55 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

like i said embed the camera in your clothing. There are plenty of hidden cameras on amazon that will suffice tbh and they sell ones that look like buttons on clothing. And the expensive cameras that are for security purposes, are like 1000 times the price PER camera that you could buy on amazon, and if one breaks its so much cheaper. Youll end up with broken ones that you have parts from others to fix with.

The only thing about the amazon ones are quality of picture. So you said that you need to simply just review what happens, so quality shouldnt be that much of a priority, because usually when you want to go SMALL you have to sacrifice quality of the image.



The smallest cheapest spy camera censors of the cameras on amazon are max .5in x .5in x .5in - which is actually kind of big



Thanks heatmap! I think using an embedded cam is a great idea!

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