House adv. on Virtual bj

The video lottery casino near me..Aqueduct racetrack NY nevertheless has virtual bj.
I presume this is a random game involving some skill.

The rules are:

each player and dealer have their own shoe
cards are "reshuffled "after every hand
6 decks
dealer hits soft 17
double any two cards
can split aces once
double after a split
can only split one time
can surrender

My rough calculation using wizard calculator is house edge at about .5-.6 %. Is this correct ?
Thanks in advance.

Does blackjack pay 3-2 or even money?

Quote: LAD

The video lottery casino near me..Aqueduct racetrack NY nevertheless has virtual bj.
I presume this is a random game involving some skill.

The rules are:

each player and dealer have their own shoe
cards are "reshuffled "after every hand
6 decks
dealer hits soft 17
double any two cards
can split aces once
double after a split
can only split one time
can surrender

My rough calculation using wizard calculator is house edge at about .5-.6 %. Is this correct ?
Thanks in advance.

FWIW, since I don't KNOW the answer, anybody running a VLT based casino is reportedly accessing a central server and representing THOSE results in a visual presentation to the player, not a random number generator within the individual machine, or other randomizing mechanism, such as a non-gaffed deck of cards or pair of dice.

The result has been determined at the instant you push bet, and your control of the hand from there is NOT random - if you're meant to win, it will allow you to do that. For example, if you've won, even if you hit 20, it will give you an ace. Then your total of 21 will lock up the hand (auto-stand) and you will win or push.

I THINK that requirement supercedes the Class III gaming requirement in most jurisdictions that a deck of cards in video must emulate the results of an actual deck of cards. But I could be wrong. I'm just recalling past discussions about VLT.

But I think VLT is based on a pool of all participating machines of all types, and has a set return to players, the minimum mandated by the jurisdiction. Sort of like how a lottery or bingo game works.

Sometimes I think all the talk about bus trips to AC is just a distraction to keep the real prize hidden.

Quote: beachbumbabs

FWIW, since I don't KNOW the answer, anybody running a VLT based casino is reportedly accessing a central server and representing THOSE results in a visual presentation to the player, not a random number generator within the individual machine, or other randomizing mechanism, such as a non-gaffed deck of cards or pair of dice.

The result has been determined at the instant you push bet, and your control of the hand from there is NOT random - if you're meant to win, it will allow you to do that. For example, if you've won, even if you hit 20, it will give you an ace. Then your total of 21 will lock up the hand (auto-stand) and you will win or push.

I THINK that requirement supercedes the Class III gaming requirement in most jurisdictions that a deck of cards in video must emulate the results of an actual deck of cards. But I could be wrong. I'm just recalling past discussions about VLT.

But I think VLT is based on a pool of all participating machines of all types, and has a set return to players, the minimum mandated by the jurisdiction. Sort of like how a lottery or bingo game works.

THIS. From what I think I understand, they have done something along the lines of simulating the cards, statistically analyzed these cards, save the cards in a database, then use a mix of these odds in the specific decks to generate a consistent house egde. They already know a certain shoe contains only a certain amont of wins and dont allow the ones that have all the wins in it sort of thing. If anyone is interested where I got this information i will show you the patent.

Quote: LAD

The video lottery casino near me..Aqueduct racetrack NY nevertheless has virtual bj.
I presume this is a random game involving some skill.

I asked the NYS Gaming Commission about that last year.

Per NYS Gaming Commission: "The outcomes from all games or gaming devices in New York must be random."

Their table games are random. Their slots are VLT.

They have table games?

Quote: billryan

They have table games?

everyone i speak to about NY says they dont have table games. alot of people come from new york to pa to play table games

Quote: heatmap

everyone i speak to about NY says they dont have table games. alot of people come from new york to pa to play table games

There are table games in NY Casinos. There are VLT in New York Racetracks.

Quote: billryan

They have table games?

No.

I referred to them as table games to distinguish them from the slots.

Except for the Interblock Craps and Sic Bo games, they are all virtual.

The Interblock Baccarat once used real cards, but the shuffler broke down so often, they went virtual.

Quote: Tanko

I asked the NYS Gaming Commission about that last year.

Per NYS Gaming Commission: "The outcomes from all games or gaming devices in New York must be random."

Their table games are random. Their slots are VLT.

You were in the conversation, and I wasn't. But the quote reads like doublespeak to me.

Maybe Miplet or someone who knows a lot about VLT can better discuss it. What I'm saying is,

VLT is "random" as to who wins, and how much the prize is. So what he said was true. But that doesn't mean that a VLT displaying V21 will be random in the same way a deck of cards is random or with the same HE when compared apples to apples. It's similar to those VP machines that, when you've won, if you make an error and discard your winners, a genie or something will "magically" pop up and put them back into the hand. That's because the VLT has randomly chosen your machine to win, and it needs to make that happen.

So, if a machine will do that, the converse is probably also true. If you have JOB and your machine is only instructed to pay you at 1:1, not all the timing or holds you can make will improve your draw beyond that. You won't get a third jack or another pair, or any better-paying hand, unless you throw away the winning Jacks, then it will give you a pair of kings so you get the same result.

I know that the slot and vp machines are vlt and there are signs on the vp machines that say it is a vlt and are not affected by any element of skill.

HOWEVER..

Those signs are not on the virtual BJ or for that matter the virtual bacarrat.

I've been told by several people including employees that for some "strange reason " NY allows these games to be determined by skill i.e., players moves. The cards are dealt randomly from each 6 deck shoe. Therefore it shouldn't be any different than the virtual BJ machines that I see in some Las Vegas casinos.

Also in answer to a reply BJ pays 3:2

I think in NY state the casinos are either Class 3 (real casinos that use RNG and legit table games) or they are Class 2 (Racinos tht are bingo based games and virtual table games. But I haven't seen any that have both types. Its either one type of casino or the other. I think this is by law. So this seems indeed strange.

I think in NY state the casinos are either Class 3 (real casinos that use RNG and legit table games) or they are Class 2 (Racinos tht are bingo based games and virtual table games. But I haven't seen any that have both types. Its either one type of casino or the other. I think this is by law. So this seems indeed strange.

Video blackjack was not allowed in NY racinos up til 2015 or 2016 as they violated the VLT requirements that BBB stated.

I had discussions with staff at the time about this. The issue was the RNG aspect as well as lottery rules that stated the winners of any lottery based game including VLT had to share equally in the outcome.

Example: at roulette everyone shares in the outcome of the number the ball lands in (just like at lotto)

Ditto was fine for Craps n Baccarat and SicBo.

With Blackjack the dealers hand outcome is affected by player choices like insurance, double down, etc.

(Even if you used a central server to predetermin a wins payout how do you determine the players choice to double down or split pairs? )

It was in 2015 or 2016 they finally installed VBJ machines. This was coincidentally after the vote to build Vegas style gambling resorts upstate.

I believe it was part of the legislation that the NY racinos could add VBJ, have it go thru the central server and still use a local RNG.

There was an older thread on here where some newbie was discussing a VBJ bug where insurance could be overrun in the players favor. He didnt want to discuss where the bug was located but I successfully determined it was the NYC racinos and related to the internal RNG server still having to pass thru the central server (the players decisions could trick the central server that the bet didn't happen if u held the button long enough and lost but u were paid if u won)

I know it was NYC racinos because I tried the trick at a local one. This is what happened.

I repeatedly tried the holding of the button and instead of working (on insurance bets only) the game would lockup for a good 30 seconds, then unfreeze but without the desired result.

Upon the 3rd time I tried it the player (total stranger to me) sitting next to me suddenly says "Hey dude, that trick to only pay insurance when you win was stopped about 2 weeks ago. They fixed it cause everyone knew about it."

I thanked him for the info. So, clearly I had discovered the bug, its location and if a bunch of ploppies were taking advantage of it (the guy who alerted me kept playing BJ even after the advantage was killed) then it was necessarily a dead play.

Hope all that was helpful