Blackjack etiquette

I am trying to quantify the superstitious blackjack etiquette such as entering a shoe mid game where people think it messes up the game in a way.

Can you think of anything that you’ve witnessed that people do in response to arbitrary activities that otherwise no one even notices?

Quote: heatmap

I am trying to quantify the superstitious blackjack etiquette such as entering a shoe mid game where people think it messes up the game in a way.

Can you think of anything that you’ve witnessed that people do in response to arbitrary activities that otherwise no one even notices?

Jumping off your chair and circling your chair 3 times while flapping your arms like a chicken (thumbs in armpits), is sometimes frowned on, and elbows are unwelcome at a crowded table. However that doesn't seem to stop people.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Jumping off your chair and circling your chair 3 times while flapping your arms like a chicken (thumbs in armpits), is sometimes frowned on, and elbows are unwelcome at a crowded table. However that doesn't seem to stop people.

This shoe is going horribly so I’m going a start playing 2 hands to change things up ...

That might be the one I witness most often

With a CSM you could wait until the end of the shoe!!

Seriously if it's a shoe game and near the end then I'd wait, otherwise possibly ask the others whether they mind you joining in (sometimes one gets the reply please wait, so I respect that). However my local has a CSM so one can just join in.

Quote: michael99000

This shoe is going horribly so I’m going a start playing 2 hands to change things up ...

That might be the one I witness most often

i have a real reason why i do that, and in my opinion it actually does something, although i am still not sure if its just the gamblers fallacy. my reason is : if i hit en even amount of cards within the round, it wont switch up the cards, but if an uneven amount of cards were hit it will. Yeah i am crazy its okay with me though haha

Quote: heatmap

Can you think of anything that you’ve witnessed that people do in response to arbitrary activities that otherwise no one even notices?

I sometimes hear a remark like, "Normally I wouldn't split this, but we need to mix things up, because the dealer has been running hot." Sometimes they will try to get the blessing of the other players, which I suppose is a nice gesture, but, of course, doesn't matter. To such requests I always say something to the effect of "Do whatever you like, makes no difference to me."

Quote: Wizard

I sometimes hear a remark like, "Normally I wouldn't split this, but we need to mix things up, because the dealer has been running hot." Sometimes they will try to get the blessing of the other players, which I suppose is a nice gesture, but, of course, doesn't matter. To such requests I always say something to the effect of "Do whatever you like, makes no difference to me."

Dang I started this thread and am realizing I’m the one who is technically superstitious haha I mean I only have what I can link to on the internet but solid proof I don’t have so I’m the one who splits things when I feel like it is what I’m saying.

Although any time I come across a split even when I am Playing with others I apologize because I feel like splitting is mostly a gamble for the whole table but it’s only on 8s and 9s against a ten otherwise I just do it if the dealer is showing a seven or lower

One thing I like to do is put my money on the table and play the cards I'm dealt. Anything else the other players have done hasn't been memorable enough.

Quote: heatmap

Although any time I come across a split even when I am Playing with others I apologize because I feel like splitting is mostly a gamble for the whole table but it’s only on 8s and 9s against a ten otherwise I just do it if the dealer is showing a seven or lower

It's a myth that the actions of one player affect other players over the long run. I will never apologize for making the right play and will never rebuke another player for doing anything, unless they ask to get corrected if they make a basic strategy error.

Quote: Wizard

It's a myth that the actions of one player affect other players over the long run. I will never apologize for making the right play and will never rebuke another player for doing anything, unless they ask to get corrected if they make a basic strategy error.

When people go to 2 hands or do an unusual split to “change up” a cold shoe , I used to just laugh at their idiocy.

Now what I do is, I wait and see if the table all loses the next hand. Then I say damn if you’d stayed with 1 hand we all would’ve won. Even though I’m not keeping track and really have no idea.

I recently had a fun experience at a $25 table at Sands PA. An older Jamaican guy who looked like George Foreman sat down and started playing $25 per hand on two hands. As the count got better I increased my bet to $150 and went on a nice run of five wins in a row with 2 Blackjacks. The count then dropped and so did my bets.

Then the guy raised his bets to $100 and $150 on each hand and got a 14 & 15 vs a dealer 3. I had 17 so I stood, but he used the excuse of "somebody's gotta take a card" and drew a 9 for the bust. Dealer flips a 10 and pulls a 6!

He then says, "See, you have to take a card if I stayed he gets 21!" Dealer then corrected him and said "No, it would've been 22!"

I dryly agreed and walked away with my winnings shaking my head, to which he said "Why you mad? I only hit cuz you're betting small, if you kept betting big I wouldn't a hit dat!"

So it was MY fault that he made the wrong move due to lowering my bet??? AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA, classic!!!

Quote: BedWetterBetter

I recently had a fun experience at a $25 table at Sands PA. An older Jamaican guy who looked like George Foreman sat down and started playing $25 per hand on two hands. As the count got better I increased my bet to $150 and went on a nice run of five wins in a row with 2 Blackjacks. The count then dropped and so did my bets.

Then the guy raised his bets to $100 and $150 on each hand and got a 14 & 15 vs a dealer 3. I had 17 so I stood, but he used the excuse of "somebody's gotta take a card" and drew a 9 for the bust. Dealer flips a 10 and pulls a 6!

He then says, "See, you have to take a card if I stayed he gets 21!" Dealer then corrected him and said "No, it would've been 22!"

I dryly agreed and walked away with my winnings shaking my head, to which he said "Why you mad? I only hit cuz you're betting small, if you kept betting big I wouldn't a hit dat!"

So it was MY fault that he made the wrong move due to lowering my bet??? AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA, classic!!!

I run around sands Bethlehem all the time because I live there we most likely have sat at a table together I’ve got all kinds of crazy theories maybe I will make you laugh one day haha

Quote: BedWetterBetter

I dryly agreed and walked away with my winnings shaking my head, to which he said "Why you mad? I only hit cuz you're betting small, if you kept betting big I wouldn't a hit dat!"

So it was MY fault that he made the wrong move due to lowering my bet??? AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA, classic!!!

I don't think that he implied that it was your fault. He believed that what he did was correct, so no one was at fault.

Quote: michael99000

When people go to 2 hands or do an unusual split to “change up” a cold shoe , I used to just laugh at their idiocy.

Now what I do is, I wait and see if the table all loses the next hand. Then I say damn if you’d stayed with 1 hand we all would’ve won. Even though I’m not keeping track and really have no idea.

IMHO, this appears to me somewhat like kicking someone when they are down, especially when the speaker really has "no idea" of the veracity of the comments shared. I expect such comments go a long way toward dampening good feelings all around the table (something I usually try to avoid). Not sure why someone would deliberately go out of his/her way to make other players feel bad, when that "someone" freely admits not knowing whether the (potentially) hurtful barb is true or not.

Also, it seems to me that comments such as this may cause other players -- perhaps less knowledgeable players -- to refrain from splitting (when they should split) for fear of themselves receiving (possibly untrue) comments like, "Damn! If you'd stayed with 1 hand we all would have won."

Quote: Wizard

It's a myth that the actions of one player affect other players over the long run. I will never apologize for making the right play and will never rebuke another player for doing anything, unless they ask to get corrected if they make a basic strategy error.

Michael. I don't think it matters in the long run or the short run.

Quote: BigJer

Michael. I don't think it matters in the long run or the short run.

In the short run, it obviously matters. Guy at third base takes a hit on 16 with the dealer showing a six. He draws a ten and busts. Dearer turns over a ten and draws a five for 21. Had third base played properly, dealer busts. How much more short term does it get? In the long term, this play will help as much as it hurts so it washes out but in the short term??

Quote: BlackjackLover

I don't think that he implied that it was your fault. He believed that what he did was correct, so no one was at fault.

Sounds to me like he based his decision based upon MY bet and not his own. He came to the conclusion that someone "must take a card" because the dealer is showing a low card. Which is utter non-sense and the excuse for people who just don't want to trust the odds of basic strategy because they can't conform to some kind of norms in society.

He then justified by that decision by looking over at my bet and seeing a single green chip, so there would be no big loss to me if he did hit and took a dealer bust card. A few hands earlier he had 12 vs dealer 5 and told me that he stood on it because my bet was big($125).

Seems kind of cut and dry he thinks he has some moral duty to hit or not hit based upon the other player's bets. But I find it hilarious that he would not only get upset that he cost us the hand by making the wrong move, but that it was due to my fluctuating bets that confirmed his decision to make the move.

When more than one person is dealt a 12 against a dealer 2 and one person tells the table that, only one of us should hit as we don't want to take the dealer's bust card and they begin to poll the table to try and determine who should hit -- I do not participate in the poll and play my hand regardless of the poll results

Never screw with the Sacred Flow of the Cards.

There was a lady at a table sometimes playing two hands. She did not play on the last few hands, so when the shoe ended, I asked the lady if I could join, and she said, "No, because sometimes I play two hands." She then looked at the other players and exclaimed, "He knows I'm playing two hands!"

Do you think it's proper etiquette to play two hands when others are waiting? What is everyone else's opinion?

Quote: ziyu.lu

There was a lady at a table sometimes playing two hands. She did not play on the last few hands, so when the shoe ended, I asked the lady if I could join, and she said, "No, because sometimes I play two hands." She then looked at the other players and exclaimed, "He knows I'm playing two hands!"

Do you think it's proper etiquette to play two hands when others are waiting? What is everyone else's opinion?

I would agree that a player sitting at a spot for a long time has the right to play One or Two spots at their discretion. If they feel you will only harm their chances of winning, you should respect their opinion, no matter how wrong it is.

When I join a table, I always ask the person closest to the spot I'm targeting "Are you playing one or two hands?" and they reply normally say "Just one." But occasionally you'll get that spiteful individual who will say "Two hands" and only play one or play two until you leave and go back to one hand. I say leave em' to their own misfortune as they will only complain if you take a spot away from them and make you wish you never sat down at the table!

Quote: ziyu.lu

There was a lady at a table sometimes playing two hands. She did not play on the last few hands, so when the shoe ended, I asked the lady if I could join, and she said, "No, because sometimes I play two hands." She then looked at the other players and exclaimed, "He knows I'm playing two hands!"

Do you think it's proper etiquette to play two hands when others are waiting? What is everyone else's opinion?

Most casinos I've been to have already decided how to handle this before you got there. Either they will ask her to choose a hand, or ask you to wait. Those that ask you to wait, will usually not allow her to hold the hand without playing it.

So, I would not ask the player. I would ask the casino (pit boss) to take care of it, either by asking her to give one up, or to put you on the waiting list, however they do it. And to insist, if you're waiting, that she does play the second hand or give it up.

We all know, though, that there are people who are given/have earned special consideration on things like this, so it may not go your way.

My question is more, why didn't the casino step in and either tell her to give it up, or ask you to wait? They're not doing their jobs.

I say that as a person who nearly insists on 2 hands at PGP, plays some other games 2 handed. If the casino takes a hand away from me at PGP, I usually get up. If their policy is I can play 2, then I play 2 even if someone wants in. If I'm ready to drop one, I let the spot go, even if I might want to play it later. I don't think it's fair to hold a spot if you're not betting it.

Actually when I asked her if I could join, the dealer also mentioned that she was playing two hands. I wasn't making a stink about it, but she made it feel like I was not respecting her space.

Only opinion that matters is the pit bosses.

I think it is bad etiquette to play multiple hands if others are waiting, but concede that most casinos seem to allow it.

Quote: BigJer

Michael. I don't think it matters in the long run or the short run.

Well, if you take the dealer's bust card, it mattered for that hand and everybody will remind you of it.

I'm almost done with the second edition of Gambling 102. I'd like to present my chapter on gambling etiquette here to get your comments. Contrary to the title of this thread, it is about gambling etiquette in general, not just blackjack, however I integrated some issues raised here already. Thank you in advance for your help.

Gambling Etiquette

• Don’t correct or critique another player’s play unless he’s receptive to suggestions. In particular, don’t harass the last player to act in blackjack. It’s a myth that a bad player, particularly at third base, causes the entire table to lose.
  
• Be courteous to the dealers. It isn’t their fault when you lose. If you can’t take losing, then don’t play at all.
  
• Tip the dealers. Dealers usually make minimum wage and rely on tips to make a decent living. Losing is not an excuse not to tip. Dealers should be tipped according to the level of service they provide.
  
• Tip the cocktail waitresses. One dollar per drink is the minimum. Ordering water does not excuse you from tipping.
  
• Tip slot personnel when you receive a hand-pay jackpot. It’s touchy subject about the amount. My personal opinion, which I admit is on the low side, is 0.5% to 2%, depending on the size of the jackpot, the larger the jackpot, the lower the percentage. It seems to be expected to tip more at small bars.
  
• Do your best to understand rules and strategy before you play. Try not to slow down a game because you don’t know how to play, unless you are the only one playing.
  
• If you make a bet using different chip denominations on a table game, put the higher denominations on the bottom of the stack.
  
• Once you make a bet in a table game, never touch it unless you win or push.
  
• Do not drink past the point where it annoys other people.
  
• I recognize that smokers, unfortunately, have a right to smoke in casinos. However, if you must, try to be respectful of non-smokers, especially if they were at the table first. Ideally, if there are non-smokers at the table, it would be nice if you stepped away from the table to smoke.
  
• If you enter a blackjack game in the middle of the shoe, ask the other players if you may join mid-shoe and do so only if there are no objections. In a single- or double-deck game, I would just wait for the shuffle, which is often required anyway.
  
• Do not hog multiple betting spots if other players are waiting to play.
  

I submit that the only time there is any credence to the idea of "taking the bust card" or "killing the table" is in a blackjack tournament.

Often players in a blackjack tournament will put out a min bet, and then make an outragrous play in an attempt to make the table lose. As mentioned before, making a goofy "wrong" play is just as likely to help the table as it is to hurt them, but if you're lucky enough to kill the table with your play, you might put a player or two on tilt, and THAT is where you gain a sizeable advantage.

I always wait for the shuffle before playing. That's because I count and I don't know what the count is if I just jump in the middle.

I don't care if other people join the game in the middle of the deck. Sometimes it's allowed and sometimes it's not. I don't care either way.

I don't tell other people how to play. However, I'll give them basic strategy if they ask.

If I make a basic strategy move that "causes" someone else to lose and they complain, I completely ignore them. I may as well be deaf. I don't care what you think because you are superstitious.

One time I was playing single deck and this woman sat down at third base and announced to everyone "I'M PLAYING THIRD BASE SO I NEED TO SEE ALL THE CARDS". Next time this happens, I'm going to announce "go play the 6 deck shoe at Silver Legacy where they deal the cards face up". A couple of times she asked me what cards I have, and one time I said "I don't know" and the other time I said "I have 16". Sorry but I am not going to help you gain the tiny little advantage you have in playing third base and being able to see all the cards in a pitch game. What's in it for me? BS "good luck"? GMAFB this is not a team sport! I can't stand people like that! Fortunately it's only happened once, and next time I will refuse to expose my cards. Too bad, go play a shoe game and leave me alone!

I make a toke bet for the dealer occasionally rather than tipping based on how much I'm winning. The amount of work the dealer does has nothing to do with whether I win or lose, and the dealer has no control over whether I win or lose. The frequency of toke bets can depend on the dealer, but it doesn't vary a lot.

As an insider, there are many ways we handle this.

If we are talking about a small player (whatever that means for the particular property) we would probably say something like "You are welcome to play 2 hands if you like, but you must play them every hand. If not we would like you to give up one for this new player"

If it is a bigger player, we will tell you, "Sorry that person is playing 2 spots"

It also matters if there are other tables at that limit with space available. I will walk a new player to a table with an available seat at the same game and same limit.

YMMV