Looking for help with specific rule

Hi guys, I have a question I'm wondering if anybody here can kindly help with. My local casino sometimes run a promotion where if the player wins a hand with 5 or more cards, they get a 6 to 1 payout. Am I right in thinking that this likely shifts the house edge to a player edge? Or is winning with 5 cards to rare to shift the edge that much? And if so, is anyone able to calculate for me? My maths isn't quite up to the task! :-)

I'm also wondering how the optimal strategy would change to best fit the rule. The only similar rule I've been able to find the the 5 Card Charlie rule shown here: /games/blackjack/rule-variations/automatic-winner-charlie-rule/ That strategy doesn't quite fit though as I would not automatically win with 5 cards, just get the increased payout if I did win. I think the strategy would change from standard though, like maybe always hit if you have less than 17 with 4 cards or something?

From memory I think the other rules are:
- Either 6 or 8 decks
- Blackjack pays 3 to 2
- Dealer stands on soft 17
- Double any first 2 cards
- Double after split
- Split pairs only once
- Dealer does not peak
- No surrender

Thank you in advance for any help on this. I'd really appreciate it!

With those splitting rules, no peek, and no surrender, you are already down 0.3%. I dont think that Charlie rule would be able to make up such such a huge disadvantage, even if it pays 6 to 1, since it probably doesn't happen that much. And remember, even if it was in your favor and you started winning too much, they would just change the rules the next day, lol :)

Quote: rumpled

Hi guys, I have a question I'm wondering if anybody here can kindly help with. My local casino sometimes run a promotion where if the player wins a hand with 5 or more cards, they get a 6 to 1 payout. Am I right in thinking that this likely shifts the house edge to a player edge? Or is winning with 5 cards to rare to shift the edge that much? And if so, is anyone able to calculate for me? My maths isn't quite up to the task! :-)

I'm also wondering how the optimal strategy would change to best fit the rule. The only similar rule I've been able to find the the 5 Card Charlie rule shown here: /games/blackjack/rule-variations/automatic-winner-charlie-rule/ That strategy doesn't quite fit though as I would not automatically win with 5 cards, just get the increased payout if I did win. I think the strategy would change from standard though, like maybe always hit if you have less than 17 with 4 cards or something?

From memory I think the other rules are:
- Either 6 or 8 decks
- Blackjack pays 3 to 2
- Dealer stands on soft 17
- Double any first 2 cards
- Double after split
- Split pairs only once
- Dealer does not peak
- No surrender

Thank you in advance for any help on this. I'd really appreciate it!

I have to say, without being an expert, that I would definitely apply 5 card Charlie strategy to that promotion. I would also do some informal hi-lo awareness (since I don't count) as the shoe progresses and take some chances when the shoe has used up a fair amount of 9 thru k cards when i have an opportunity to hit 17 or less.

A 5 card Charlie without busting is worth 1.46%. If you must also win the hand, then it would likely reduce it substantially, that it's probably not even worth it for those reasons above, even if you could have a miniscule advantage.

And also, welcome to the forums.

Quote: nanumula

A 5 card Charlie without busting is worth 1.46%. If you must also win the hand, then it would likely reduce it substantially, that it's probably not even worth it for those reasons above, even if you could have a miniscule advantage.

And also, welcome to the forums.

The 6 to 1 pay would surely make up for having to win the hand.

Quote: nanumula

A 5 card Charlie without busting is worth 1.46%. If you must also win the hand, then it would likely reduce it substantially, that it's probably not even worth it for those reasons above, even if you could have a miniscule advantage.

And also, welcome to the forums.

You may well be right about the reduction with no auto-win, but if it pays 6-1, that's pretty significant, isn't it? You can lose 5 out of 6 of those hands the strategy says hit for the Charlie and still come out even .

For reference:

https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/rule-variations/automatic-winner-charlie-rule/

Well, I would rush over there to play quickly b/c that promotion won't last for long.

Quote: nanumula

Well, I would rush over there to play quickly b/c that promotion won't last for long.

Correct. I calculated the game and my only advice is to play. Play 2 or 3 spots if you can.

If it does shift to a player advantage, then the advantage probably gets shifted back by people who too often incorrectly hit on four cards, hoping for that winning Charlie.

By your post I am going to guess that you are somewhere in the UK. If the casino has the no hole card rule where splits and doubles are lost on a dealer blackjack, then this promotion will not overcome it.

Bonus points for anyone who can figure out why I suspect a UK poster.

Quote: FCBLComish

By your post I am going to guess that you are somewhere in the UK. If the casino has the no hole card rule where splits and doubles are lost on a dealer blackjack, then this promotion will not overcome it.

Bonus points for anyone who can figure out why I suspect a UK poster.

Combination if timing is post and OP saying “dealer does not peek”?

Quote: nanumula

I dont think that Charlie rule would be able to make up such such a huge disadvantage, even if it pays 6 to 1, since it probably doesn't happen that much.

WTF?

Quote: FCBLComish

Bonus points for anyone who can figure out why I suspect a UK poster.

Because although he made an error in peak versus peek, he said 'my casino run' rather than 'runs' which is the English way of dealing with collective nouns such as committee and government .

I actually took it from the word "maths"

Quote: FCBLComish

I actually took it from the word "maths"

Heck even I say 'maths' as an affectation. Its common in the UK, Australia and I believe Canada too. I also say "the gout" instead of 'gout' which is also an affectation that I picked up to make people think I know what on earth I am talking about. I rarely do, you know.

I still don't know basic arithmetic but I am now at the point where I often get the answer but am in such doubt that I have to silently count just to make sure that I'm correct. Now you know why blackjack players often find me annoyingly slow.

Thank you everyone for the help on this, and for the welcome to the forum. I really appreciate it :-)

Quote: AxelWolf

WTF?

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