Its official. I quit
Quote: ZenKinGI suggest you take out as many 9s, 10s and aces as you can, program the ASMs, cut off 2 decks and make everything 6:5 if you want a chance at stopping me. I suggest you also tell management to keep being non-transparent to their customer base without any rational explanation as to why you guys do what you do with the cards you order.
If nobody read anything else you've ever written, that right there is enough to let them know you've chosen the wrong profession.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13If nobody read anything else you've ever written, that right there is enough to let them know you've chosen the wrong profession.
ZCore13
And you and others have yet to give me a rational explanation about the shady practices casinos use regarding pre shuffled cards. Go ahead ill wait. There is none.
If a casino is going to throw the preshuffled cards that they receive into the ASM to shuffle them, what exactly is the point of them coming pre shuffled? Wouldnt the same being accomplished by just having the cards come in order for all to see?
There is also no time being saved at all because the dealer still has to check the cards for any marks or damage.
I actually dont think there are missing cards or extra 4s and 5s replacing 10s and Aces, but the lack of transparency frustrates me. Also im very paranoid about the ASMs. Most of the frustration though comes from me being so cursed. To get to vegas and have this happen to me even though its only 200 hours just symbolizes my life. You guys dont understand the other stuff in my life where ive been so unlucky as well. I know everyone has something going on with their own lives and maybe im sounding like a whining child, but the amount of frustration just boils over and i have a quick trigger with anger at times.
Just one time can something ever go right or have a bit of 'luck', thats all
To be 100% honest you've been given at least a dozen rational explanations as well as ways to statistically prove or disprove your claims. You are simply choosing not to accept them as rational explanations, which doesn't mean they're not. You also refuse to simply prove it with easy to do stats. So really all you have is "nah I don't believe that... they cheat" on an endless loop which no one cares about anymore because we took you seriously, addressed the situation, gave you rational explanations and the know how to prove your claims and you've simply ignored all of the above. So now... no one takes you seriously.Quote: ZenKinGAnd you and others have yet to give me a rational explanation about the shady practices casinos use regarding pre shuffled cards. Go ahead ill wait. There is none...
Quote: RomesTo be 100% honest you've been given at least a dozen rational explanations as well as ways to statistically prove or disprove your claims. You are simply choosing not to accept them as rational explanations, which doesn't mean they're not. You also refuse to simply prove it with easy to do stats. So really all you have is "nah I don't believe that... they cheat" on an endless loop which no one cares about anymore because we took you seriously, addressed the situation, gave you rational explanations and the know how to prove your claims and you've simply ignored all of the above. So now... no one takes you seriously.
Read the end of my post. Its more about the frustration of the lack of transparency and why they do what they do. All it does is lead to questions, which could be avoided.
Quote: RomesTo be 100% honest you've been given at least a dozen rational explanations as well as ways to statistically prove or disprove your claims. You are simply choosing not to accept them as rational explanations, which doesn't mean they're not. You also refuse to simply prove it with easy to do stats. So really all you have is "nah I don't believe that... they cheat" on an endless loop which no one cares about anymore because we took you seriously, addressed the situation, gave you rational explanations and the know how to prove your claims and you've simply ignored all of the above. So now... no one takes you seriously.
ZK: Once again, perspective.
You have your arms and legs. You are able to feed yourself. You have a family that loves you. You are American. You have a positive net worth. You are already in the top 1%. Your "loss" of whatever it is you lost is less than the mortgage penalty that I paid when selling my house to move to the United States.
You were able to go to Vegas and attempt something that few people don't have the opportunity to do.
And you call yourself cursed.
I can tell you in 12 years I've never seen or heard of a deck with a card missing, so I would have no concerns about a deck being missing cards or having extra cards when put in play if I used pre-sorted.
ZCore13
You're harping on a moot point. They're a private business and no one is twisting your arm to get you in the door. You CHOOSE to go to casinos. So if their laws/practice/private rules are to not show the cards, then you don't get to see them. If you think they're cheating you have ways to prove or disprove that theory. To sit and bitch repeatedly about the transparency is lunacy because it's completely irrelevant. You have 4 options to move forward, zero of which have to do with bitching about transparency:Quote: ZenKinGRead the end of my post. Its more about the frustration of the lack of transparency and why they do what they do. All it does is lead to questions, which could be avoided.
1) Accept their games are fair and play them.
2) Accept their games are not fair and don't play them.
3) Don't believe their games are fair and don't play them.
4) Don't believe their games are fair and PROVE IT.
Anything else is a simple waste of time falling on deafened ears from your repetitious unsubstantiated claims.
Quote: Zcore13Using pre-shuffled cards does save time and theoretically make the casino more money. I would never use them because I like the process of everyone being able to see all the cards being put in play if they choose to, but some in the business want cards being dealt during every possible second.
I can tell you in 12 years I've never seen or heard of a deck with a card missing, so I would have no concerns about a deck being missing cards or having extra cards when put in play if I used pre-sorted.
ZCore13
Im not even worried about 'missing' cards such as a short pack because I know the pit bosses check the amount of cards by counting them with the back of the cards face up. So the possibly of a short pack is eliminated. Also having 10s and Aces replaced with 4s and 5s woukd be too much of a risk in case more than 8 of them came out in an 8 deck shoe or 6 in a 6 deck shoe. What could be happening is Ive heard these machines can have codes punched into them. But i guess the fact that the player gets to 'cut' the deck before play would break any algorithm that is pre set.
I guess the more I think about it, maybe Ive been overreacting and no cheating is happening. What a waste of 9 months stressing over this.
Its just the lack of transparency and my horrible results that have frustrated me, thats all, and to get here and go through one of my biggest losing streaks and watch my bankroll continue free falling with expenses has ate at me. Maybe ive been sounding a bit entitled and spoiled, but its just been a hard transition for me
Quote: ZenKinGRead the end of my post. Its more about the frustration of the lack of transparency and why they do what they do. All it does is lead to questions, which could be avoided.
Your one and only beef is the fact that cards arrived pre-shuffled and they don't show them to you, which makes you believe that the cards *could* be barfed. Why does Las Vegas casinos have to be transparent to you?
The biggest cheats at the casino is player-dealer collusion. It's happened in craps. It's happened in Baccarat. It happens in Blackjack. Preshuffling the cards takes the opportunity for dealers to mark cards, or to engage in any kind of collusion with the player. Ensuring that neither the dealer nor the player knows any of the cards takes away that ability to cheat. Having the cards arrive in order allows a dealer to take an ace off the top or ten value cards off the bottom and arrange them in a shoe.
Casinos will not distinguish decks meant for blackjack hand-shoes vs blackjack CSMs. Some casinos will not even distinguish cards meant for other 52 card tables (all other games besides Pai-Gow Poker) vs Blackjack decks. So they make the policy the same at all tables: preshuffled, dealer doesn't see the cards, and right into the shuffler. No collusion. Randomness.
As I said before, in your 200 hours of time, you could have done mathematical variance on cards dealt to see if there was a problem with card distribution. I do it at Video Poker to ensure fair play by counting Aces or Twos (Depending on the game) against the total number of hands dealt. You didn't do that.
Quote: ZenKinG. What could be happening is Ive heard these machines can have codes punched into them. But i guess the fact that the player gets to 'cut' the deck before play would break any algorithm that is pre set.
I guess the more I think about it, maybe Ive been overreacting and no cheating is happening. What a waste of 9 months stressing over this.
People who work for ShuffleMaster, dealers, and pit bosses have confirmed on other threads that except for making the cards come out in a predetermined order (which is usually the A-K in the four suits) the machines have no buttons or programming available to deal cards in a way that would favor the dealer.
There was a thread where a person claimed that he bought a machine online and confirmed there was a "beast mode". WoV researchers determined that the person was completely lying, for reasons I cannot understand except for delusion.
Quote: boymimboPreshuffling the cards takes the opportunity for dealers to mark cards, or to engage in any kind of collusion with the player. Ensuring that neither the dealer nor the player knows any of the cards takes away that ability to cheat. Having the cards arrive in order allows a dealer to take an ace off the top or ten value cards off the bottom and arrange them in a shoe.
How would the dealer be able to arrange the cards if youre throwing the cards into the ASM to shuffle them?
Quote: RomesYou're harping on a moot point. They're a private business and no one is twisting your arm to get you in the door. You CHOOSE to go to casinos. So if their laws/practice/private rules are to not show the cards, then you don't get to see them. If you think they're cheating you have ways to prove or disprove that theory. To sit and bitch repeatedly about the transparency is lunacy because it's completely irrelevant. You have 4 options to move forward, zero of which have to do with bitching about transparency:
1) Accept their games are fair and play them.
2) Accept their games are not fair and don't play them.
3) Don't believe their games are fair and don't play them.
4) Don't believe their games are fair and PROVE IT.
Anything else is a simple waste of time falling on deafened ears from your repetitious unsubstantiated claims.
Well first off, thats a horrible customer service policy because if no one shows up their business will fail. Ypu dont simply tell your customer to go play elsewhere if i dont like it.
But thats irrelevant. The more Ive thought about this whole cheating thing, I kind of answered my own questions. I dont think im getting cheated actually, but the lack of transparency is still annoying because i dont see any rational explanation for cards coming pre shuffled. I guess i owe an apology for anyone willing to accept it for all the cheating nonsense ive said for 9 months. Its been a waste of energy.
Quote: ZenKinGHow would the dealer be able to arrange the cards if youre throwing the cards into the ASM to shuffle them?
Nothing stopping the dealer from keeping some 10s for himself and not putting them into the ASM.
Quote: boymimboNothing stopping the dealer from keeping some 10s for himself and not putting them into the ASM.
Nothing except Surveillance, Inspectors, Pit Bosses, Shift Managers Security, Department of Gaming video reviews and other players.
ZCore13
lol have you ever been to a casino? I'm agreeing with you, but that doesn't matter one bit. 999/1000 people whom enter a casino are a ploppy, and virtually none of them care about any of it. In fact, they're there EXPECTING to lose... so why would they care? And in turn, why would the casinos care about you, the 1/1000 who wants to see their cards?Quote: ZenKinGWell first off, thats a horrible customer service policy because if no one shows up their business will fail. Ypu dont simply tell your customer to go play elsewhere if i dont like it...
223 hours
Bankroll close to 50k again.
Total career earnings +43,642
1054.5 hours
And just like that the script has changed. And this was done after I lowered my bets to 2x150 from 2x250. I'd be up over +5k had I not lowered my bet.
Im actually at +3575 now in Vegas but my total is +1905 due to a -1670 loss in California earlier in the year. Had I not lowered my bets, I'd probably be over +7k in Vegas by now as well.
So much for 'Another one bites the dust'....
So much for me 'Tapping out'.
So much for me 'fleeing back to mom's basement'
So much for all the doubters.
Quote: ZenKinG+1905
223 hours
Bankroll close to 50k again.
Total career earnings +43,642
1054.5 hours
And just like that the script has changed. And this was done after I lowered my bets to 2x150 from 2x250. I'd be up over +5k had I not lowered my bet.
Im actually at +3575 now in Vegas but my total is +1905 due to a -1670 loss in California earlier in the year. Had I not lowered my bets, I'd probably be over +7k in Vegas by now as well.
So much for 'Another one bites the dust'....
So much for me 'Tapping out'.
So much for me 'fleeing back to mom's basement'
So much for all the doubters.
I'm glad you're in the black, Zen. Good for you for making more money than you lost. :)
ZCore13
Quote: ZenKinGIm not even worried about 'missing' cards such as a short pack because I know the pit bosses check the amount of cards by counting them with the back of the cards face up. So the possibly of a short pack is eliminated. Also having 10s and Aces replaced with 4s and 5s woukd be too much of a risk in case more than 8 of them came out in an 8 deck shoe or 6 in a 6 deck shoe. What could be happening is Ive heard these machines can have codes punched into them. But i guess the fact that the player gets to 'cut' the deck before play would break any algorithm that is pre set.
I guess the more I think about it, maybe Ive been overreacting and no cheating is happening. What a waste of 9 months stressing over this.
Its just the lack of transparency and my horrible results that have frustrated me, thats all, and to get here and go through one of my biggest losing streaks and watch my bankroll continue free falling with expenses has ate at me. Maybe ive been sounding a bit entitled and spoiled, but its just been a hard transition for me
I was about to quote your opening to your "Apology" thread back to you, but you're showing some needed perspective in this post after backsliding. Good to see - keep focus.
Quote: ZenKinG+1905
223 hours
Bankroll close to 50k again.
Total career earnings +43,642
1054.5 hours
And just like that the script has changed. And this was done after I lowered my bets to 2x150 from 2x250. I'd be up over +5k had I not lowered my bet.
Im actually at +3575 now in Vegas but my total is +1905 due to a -1670 loss in California earlier in the year. Had I not lowered my bets, I'd probably be over +7k in Vegas by now as well.
So much for 'Another one bites the dust'....
So much for me 'Tapping out'.
So much for me 'fleeing back to mom's basement'
So much for all the doubters.
So you said you started out in Vegas almost a year ago with about 50k, you’re up 1905 since you got there , and your bankroll is at about 50k now
So the cost of all the expenses of living in Vegas for a year .. rent food etc etc.. was only a total of 2000?
Quote: ZenKinGHad I not lowered my bets, I'd probably be over +7k in Vegas by now as well.
So much for 'Another one bites the dust'....
So much for me 'Tapping out'.
So much for me 'fleeing back to mom's basement'
So much for all the doubters.
Well done for not being a quitter. Well done also, for resizing your wagers, probably appropriately.
Just one slight red flag: Had I not lowered my bets, I'd probably be over +7k in Vegas by now as well. Is the way a degenerate gambler might think. I doubt you are a degenerate gambler*, so just keep on avoiding that line of thought.
*They say it takes one to know one.
I wish you a successful future and I'll not harp on about the fortunes you possibly didn't make on Bitcoin or locks of the century.
Quote: michael99000So you said you started out in Vegas almost a year ago with about 50k, you’re up 1905 since you got there , and your bankroll is at about 50k now
So the cost of all the expenses of living in Vegas for a year .. rent food etc etc.. was only a total of 2000?
If you're gonna reply at least know the facts of how much i started with. I had 58k when i got out here. Expenses have eaten a way at my bankroll mostly because i didnt play as much as i should have. Ive also made about 4500 through video game tournaments. Ive had about 14k worth of expenses whether it was rent, food, gas, expenses on starting up an online business, which I decided not to even pursue anymore, etc. Ive actually managed expenses pretty well
Quote: Zcore13So you make as much as someone that works a regular job and gets healfh/dental/vision insurance, paid time off and 401k matching. Congrats.
ZCore13
Difference is i did it part time, enjoy what i do, and work my own hours. Im not miserable sitting in an office cubicle making 40k a year working double the hours and being a slave to my boss. When those people look back at their life, what are they proud of? I can look back and say i did something many couldnt do and was a good life experience. Life's not all about money. You wont be able to take all your cash to the grave.
Quote: ZenKinGDifference is i did it part time, enjoy what i do, and work my own hours. Im not miserable sitting in an office cubicle making 40k a year working double the hours and being a slave to my boss. When those people look back at their life, what are they proud of? I can look back and say i did something many couldnt do and was a good life experience. Life's not all about money. You wont be able to take all your cash to the grave.
Seconded
If i had a choice of regular 9-5 or AP 9-9 i with same exact profit i would still pick AP
Nothing beats being your own boss
You are discovering what people have been trying to tell you.
You have an edge. All you need to do is play.
You're not a hero when winning nor are you a zero when losing.
Nothing matters except time spent grinding your edge.
Quote: ZenKinGDifference is i did it part time, enjoy what i do, and work my own hours. Im not miserable sitting in an office cubicle making 40k a year working double the hours and being a slave to my boss. When those people look back at their life, what are they proud of? I can look back and say i did something many couldnt do and was a good life experience. Life's not all about money. You wont be able to take all your cash to the grave.
I make a lot more than that and I am very happy in my profession, not miserable.
Unlike you, I am helping people to solve their real life problems.
I am my own boss as well.
So don't try pontificating: that dog won't hunt.
Just out of curiosity what have you done that you can actually feel proud about?
Quote: MrVI make a lot more than that and I am very happy in my profession, not miserable.
Unlike you, I am helping people to solve their real life problems.
I am my own boss as well.
So don't try pontificating: that dog won't hunt.
Just out of curiosity what have you done that you can actually feel proud about?
Taking over 43k from casinos with a $200 average bet playing straight-up over 1000 hours without any loss rebates, promotions, or mailers. I think that puts me in some rare company.
I've also traveled the world free of charge to many international video game tournaments and placed 2nd and the quarter finals as well as many national final appearances. Free hotels, food, and accommodation as well. Was minutes away from being a 2-time world champion in FIFA, but it wasn't meant to be I guess. I've also won loads of $200 gift cards for all my friends off a java game on a website that I was really good at. I won for nearly 20 people or more, whether it was a $200 gift card, a PSP, an Ipod, all of which at the time was $200 value. Yes, because I'm a good guy so I won for everybody, why not? I must have won for myself about 6 or 7 times before they took the game off the site as well.
I graduated college and got my bachelors. I have no debt and never had a credit card in my life. Parents never gave me any handout or 'allowance' or whatever b.s. kids get from their parents. Yes they paid for my college, but I told them I didn't want to go to school and that they didn't have to pay for me, but they forced me to go anyway. Had it been on my own dime knowing how tight I am with money, I most likely wouldn't have gone to school and get drowned in student loan debt. I also don't smoke or drink. Close to 50k in savings as well.
Not many in my age can say all that. They're all too busy getting drunk until life hits them at 30-35 and realize they're living paycheck to paycheck the rest of their life. So yeah, I'm pretty proud.
Quote: ZenKinGDifference is i did it part time, enjoy what i do, and work my own hours. Im not miserable sitting in an office cubicle making 40k a year working double the hours and being a slave to my boss. When those people look back at their life, what are they proud of? I can look back and say i did something many couldnt do and was a good life experience. Life's not all about money. You wont be able to take all your cash to the grave.
That sounds great, but go back and read your last 700 posts. Do they sound like they were written by someone who loves his work, and isn't miserable. If the last year was you enjoying yourself, I worry about your future.
Quote: ZenKinG
And just like that the script has changed.
So much for 'Another one bites the dust'....
So much for me 'Tapping out'.
So much for me 'fleeing back to mom's basement'
So much for all the doubters.
I'm glad to hear things are swinging back your way, just be prepared for when they swing back the other way again. Given an advantage, you're expected to come out ahead in the end, of course.
I believe the only reason anyone ever doubted you was the content of many of your rant-like posts. More of an attitude thing. I don't think that anyone here doubts your proficiency as a counter or your ability to do so successfully should you keep a level head. You've even said that you're just letting off steam here and are different in person, and that stance has some corroboration from people here who have met you.
In other words, I don't know that anyone really questions you in terms of ability.
What about the stuff that's really important?
Like raising a family.
That's what really matters, the rest is just amusement and self-indulgence.
Not impressed, sorry.
Quote: MrVZK, it sounds to me like you get a sense of pride from playing games.
What about the stuff that's really important?
Like raising a family.
That's what really matters, the rest is just amusement and self-indulgence.
Not impressed, sorry.
Oh now we're talking about raising a family? Interesting. Also why is raising a family and 'games' not mutually exclusive, why must they be different and not go together? Why can't you have both? Just because you and others cannot make money playing 'games', doesn't mean others cannot. Gotta love society based stereotypes. "Oh he plays 'games', he must be a loser, no one can make a living playing games, let alone raise a family. Run for the hills".
Besides 'gaming' won't be all I do. Tech sector index funds will soon come into effect thereby destroying any expenses I have. I might even get a small part time job for now until I can grow my bankroll to 75k, especially since Zcore has now probably informed all the casinos to start rigging the games to bring me back down. Nonetheless, I've had a plan in place for a while, just a matter of time until it all comes together. Would've came together by now had I not run so badly. Just more adversity like always.
Lastly, I dont live my life looking to impress others or make others happy. As long as Im content and can look back and have no regrets and that I did everything I could to succeed.
Quote: billryanSuperBowl week, you were all excited about your new internet venue . Six weeks later, you abandon it. Is that part of your plan?
I'm not going to go through with it. I told my friend who was working on this with me who handled the tech and website building and he understood where I'm at. Oh well, 2 months down the drain of working on it, but after every bank and merchant account in America struck us down, we had to look at Malta as an offshore idea since they are 'gaming' friendly and they also understand our business model that it wouldn't require a 'license' either, but who knows if the banks etc will want us as well since we are a start-up in a 'high risk' industry as the banks like to say. Also I'm not sure the numbers we project are all that realistic and if it's worth the headache of running my own online offshore business right now, not to mention the high incorporation costs and the maintenance of it all.
Im just gonna stick to my original plan before I came out here. I'm also gonna look to get a side job for now until my bankroll can hit somewhere in the neighborhood of 75k.
Quote: ZenKinGI might even get a small part time job for now until I can grow my bankroll to 75k, especially since Zcore has now probably informed all the casinos to start rigging the games to bring me back down.
How did you know? They are all removing the good cards you like as we speak. They are also converting many of their shuffler to beast mode. I'd suggest moving to another town. Me and all the casinos have got you zeroed in in the Vegas area.
ZCore13
Quote: MrVZK, it sounds to me like you get a sense of pride from playing games.
What about the stuff that's really important?
Like raising a family.
That's what really matters, the rest is just amusement and self-indulgence.
Not impressed, sorry.
I don't know... I'm definitely more impressed with professional gamblers and video game champions than I am with someone raising a family. I mean, how many billions of families are there in the world? Can't be that hard...
Then again I don't have any kids, so I guess my opinion doesn't count for much.
Quote: ZenKinGDifference is i did it part time, enjoy what i do, and work my own hours. Im not miserable sitting in an office cubicle making 40k a year working double the hours and being a slave to my boss. When those people look back at their life, what are they proud of? I can look back and say i did something many couldnt do and was a good life experience. Life's not all about money. You wont be able to take all your cash to the grave.
Actually you seemed miserable for your time in Vegas. Blaming crooked casinos and ignoring every piece of advice given to go.
So cash doesn’t matter? It’s a f’n joke that others have accepted your “apology” to everyone working in casinos in Vegas. Since I don’t change my opinions based on the wind or half assed apologies, I I still believe you will fail. Simply because you don’t have the ability to see the entire picture in front of you. If you did you would be working with those who offered to help you.
Yea, your the best, yea your cursed, whatever. You are just another guy to me unwilling to do what it takes to succeed in today’s America.
And while I hope you prove me wrong, I also always donate to those with creative signs on the overpasses.
Quote: BozActually you seemed miserable for your time in Vegas. Blaming crooked casinos and ignoring every piece of advice given to go.
So cash doesn’t matter? It’s a f’n joke that others have accepted your “apology” to everyone working in casinos in Vegas. Since I don’t change my opinions based on the wind or half assed apologies, I I still believe you will fail. Simply because you don’t have the ability to see the entire picture in front of you. If you did you would be working with those who offered to help you.
Yea, your the best, yea your cursed, whatever. You are just another guy to me unwilling to do what it takes to succeed in today’s America.
And while I hope you prove me wrong, I also always donate to those with creative signs on the overpasses.
+43.6k over 1050 hours says you're wrong. Close to 50k and no debt and never had a credit card or handout from anyone and also without ever having a job worth more than 11 an hour also says you're wrong. Yup I don't have what it takes to succeed in today's America. I'm going to fail. You would be wise to listen to me more and so would everyone else at my age. Not many, especially my age can be as disciplined to save like I did and grind it out without ever asking for a hand out from government.
Oh, and yeah if everyone was like me, society and the economy would be much better off, but everyone wants a hand out, credit cards, loans, mortgages, everyone wants instant satisfaction with money they don't have and do not want to sacrifice and be disciplined. I'm more of the 'old age' living concept of saving and only paying for things I have money for, living within my needs, and not needing to ask for a handout from parents or the government. All this 'freebie' stuff and instant satisfaction through loans, credit cards, mortgages, etc., all it does is create a spoiled society with horrible cash management skills and creates a poor economic climate that continues to destroy itself. But this isn't a coincidence, the government knows what it's doing and has everyone my age and the younger generation right where they want them with no money and relying on government for everything so they can be controlled the rest of their lives.
I also laugh at all the people who say they just 'bought' a house and laugh even harder when they get 'congratulations' from their friends and family LOL. They didn't buy anything other than asking government to buy it for them and now are drowning in interest payments and they're being congratulated for it. They're better off paying for an apartment and not have that responsibility of payments looming over their head. Not to mention buying a house in your 20's is the worst decision one can make. All it does is 'lock' you in to an area and gives you no flexibility when this is the age where flexibility is much more important than money itself. People are sucked into what society expects from them and what everyone else their age is doing and fall into the trap.
Quote: ZenKinG+43.6k over 1050 hours says you're wrong. Close to 50k and no debt and never had a credit card or handout from anyone and also without ever having a job worth more than 11 an hour also says you're wrong. Yup I don't have what it takes to succeed in today's America. You would be wise to listen to me more and so would everyone else at my age. Not many, especially my age can be as disciplined to save like I did and grind it out without ever asking for a hand out from government.
Oh, and yeah if everyone was like me, society and the economy would be much better off, but everyone wants a hand out, credit cards, loans, mortgages, everyone wants instant satisfaction with money they don't have and do not want to sacrifice and be disciplined. I'm more of the 'old age' living concept of saving and only paying for things I have money for, living within my needs, and not needing to ask for a handout from parents or the government. I laugh at all the people who say they just 'bought' a house. They didn't buy anything other than asking government to buy it for them and now are drowning in interest payments. They're better off paying for an apartment and not have that responsibility of payments looming over their head. Not to mention buying a house in your 20's is the worst decision one can make. All it does is 'lock' you in to an area and gives you no flexibility when this is the age where flexibility is much more important than money itself.
Good for you on the no handouts but the Credit Card game is another game you should put in your repertoire. It’s a money maker if you have to discipline to handle it correctly. And on the home game, how much money can you borrow at 3.5%? Another winning game for those with the abilities to correctly manage it.
Your young, and honestly too stubborn to see the whole picture. I do hope you wake up and open your f’n eyes to the opportunities around you. The world is filled with followers and victims. You could make money beyond your dreams and live a life you only imagine.
Many on here are doing it, but it never comes easy. Wake the f up and embrace the opportunities. Very few have the abilities to do it. I actually believe you do. I hope you see the light.
Quote: ZenKinG
I also laugh at all the people who say they just 'bought' a house and laugh even harder when they get 'congratulations' from their friends and family LOL. They didn't buy anything other than asking government to buy it for them and now are drowning in interest payments and they're being congratulated for it.
If someone is "drowning" in interest then that's a personal finance problem, and has nothing to do with home ownership. Where I live, buying a house is cheaper than renting, even after factoring in bills, taxes, utilities, etc. Plus, once the mortgage is paid off, that number falls even more. That rent price is only going to go up.
Quote:They're better off paying for an apartment and not have that responsibility of payments looming over their head.
What are you talking about? Unless you're getting an apartment for free you still have payments "looming" over your head every month that will never decrease.
Quote:Not to mention buying a house in your 20's is the worst decision one can make. All it does is 'lock' you in to an area and gives you no flexibility when this is the age where flexibility is much more important than money itself.
Good thing I can sell my house if I ever need to move.
Quote:People are sucked into what society expects from them and what everyone else their age is doing and fall into the trap.
I don't give a darn what society "expects" me to do. I bought a house because it made the most financial sense for me.
Quote: TigerWuQuote: ZenKinG
I also laugh at all the people who say they just 'bought' a house and laugh even harder when they get 'congratulations' from their friends and family LOL. They didn't buy anything other than asking government to buy it for them and now are drowning in interest payments and they're being congratulated for it.
If someone is "drowning" in interest then that's a personal finance problem, and has nothing to do with home ownership. Where I live, buying a house is cheaper than renting, even after factoring in bills, taxes, utilities, etc. Plus, once the mortgage is paid off, that number falls even more. That rent price is only going to go up.
What are you talking about? Unless you're getting an apartment for free you still have payments "looming" over your head every month that will never decrease.
Good thing I can sell my house if I ever need to move.
I don't give a darn what society "expects" me to do. I bought a house because it made the most financial sense for me.
Yeah go ahead and tell me whats easier to do. Move out of an apartment or sell a house? Which is quicker as well? Ill wait. Fexibility is more important than purely momey when your in your 20s and early 30s. People buying houses amd getting married in their 20s is laughable and explains why everyone is broke their whole life. No one should be buying a house before 35 or getting married before 35 unless they're already set financially.
Also they should not let people sell their house after taking out a mortgage. Once again instant satisfaction bull$hit this society. No money to pay for a house and if you don't want to continue making payments, just find a buyer, so laughable. Yes I know you don't get the full profits of the house and only of what you paid for it and whatever difference is left over etc., but you shouldnt even be entitled to any of the profits either, nonetheless that's not even the point im trying to make. There's just too much fluff and instant satisfaction in today's society. No one understands the true essence of money in their pocket because it takes 2 seconds to get a loan at the tip of a finger or get something without any money in hand.
Depressing times indeed and explains why America has become the world's largest debtor when it once was the worlds strongest economy and world's largest creditor. Other countries are leaps and bounds ahead of us by now including China and Germany and they're laughing at us.
Quote: ZenKinG
People buying houses amd getting married in their 20s is laughable and explains why everyone is broke their whole life. No one should be buying a house before 35 or getting married before 35 unless they're already set financially.
I guess I personally can't really argue with this. I didn't get married or buy a house until my late 30's. Unnecessary student debt is also why people in their 20's end up broke their whole life. Although one of my good friends got married when he was like 20, his marriage is still going strong and he makes way more money than I do with a lot less education.
Yea you know it all, have all the answers. Yea, you will show us, lol.
But I will give you credit for not having $100k in college debt.
So what is your future plan to double, triple or multiple it 10x?
Obviously real estate is out.
The WoV world is waiting for your wisdom.
PS not quoting your reply to Tiger, but Thank You for returning to where you started! “ You should not be able to sell a house after taking a mortgage out on it”. Maybe your best one ever.
And yes I see it as sad to think some legitimate posters like PG thought you changed your stripes.
Quote: BozSays the guy in his mid to late 20’s with a $50,000 net worth, lol. “But I have no debt and didn’t fall for the home ownership scam”.
Yea you know it all, have all the answers. Yea, you will show us, lol.
But I will give you credit for not having $100k in college debt.
So what is your future plan to double, triple or multiple it 10x?
Obviously real estate is out.
The WoV world is waiting for your wisdom.
Actually im closer to 55-60k net worth since my car is owned outright and paid for it in cash. I can sell it for maybe 7-8k since i maintained it well and still looks nice. Hows that car loan looking for everyone else?
Lastly im not bragging at all, since 55k aint shit, nor do i have all the answers. Im just simply stating that the way society works today and how its run is completely wrong and all it does is create a spoiled society and economy thats reliant on the govt. Oh by the way, thats not a coincidence.
Our grandparents and our elders had it right. Thats the way it should be. Save up, dont ask for any handouts, and live within your means until you make it. You'll learn the true value of money that way as well.
Quote: ZenKinGActually im closer to 55-60k net worth since my car is owned outright and paid for it in cash. I can sell it for maybe 7-8k since i maintained it well and still looks nice. Hows that car loan looking for everyone else?
55-60k, you win, lol. The key question is still how are you going to double it? Not busting your balls, but come up with a plan. You can be special but I don’t see it in your actions. Come up with a plan, stop being a victim and LOOK at the world in front of you.
Doubling it doesn’t happen overnight, but it will never happen without a plan. I may bust your balls, but you have potential. Find your path and stop being so f’n bitter.
Quote: Boz55-60k, you win, lol. The key question is still how are you going to double it? Not busting your balls, but come up with a plan. You can be special but I don’t see it in your actions. Come up with a plan, stop being a victim and LOOK at the world in front of you.
Doubling it doesn’t happen overnight, but it will never happen without a plan. I may bust your balls, but you have potential. Find your path and stop being so f’n bitter.
Ive had a plan before I came here and still believe in it. I just ran bad in the beginning thats all. My projection was to have over 500k within 5 years.
Its also not a priority for me to double or triple it or whatever you said. As long as I can make my own hours, do something I enjoy, and live comfortably, Im happy. You cant take your money with you to the grave and id never spoil my kids with money. They better work for it.
Quote: TigerWuQuote: ZenKinG
I also laugh at all the people who say they just 'bought' a house and laugh even harder when they get 'congratulations' from their friends and family LOL. They didn't buy anything other than asking government to buy it for them and now are drowning in interest payments and they're being congratulated for it.
If someone is "drowning" in interest then that's a personal finance problem, and has nothing to do with home ownership. Where I live, buying a house is cheaper than renting, even after factoring in bills, taxes, utilities, etc. Plus, once the mortgage is paid off, that number falls even more. That rent price is only going to go up.
Interesting you say that because thats not the reality we live in. Just saw a commercial on a homeowner not being able to make the house payment LOL. So much for houses vs apartments debate. Face it house ownership is so much more stressful, not to mention maintenance of it as well. The costs are not even comparable. Its an illusion of the american dream. Wait till youre 35-40 when your a bit more financially stable before you buy a house. Also anyone buying a house with any ounce of debt should have their heads examined.
This all is the byproduct of a spoiled society that can get thousands of dollars and even hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans or credit lines at the tip of a finger whenever they want as long as they have good 'credit'. Yes having 'credit' is such a wonderful thing, we are all taught at a young age that credit is such a wonderful thing lol and have them spun into a web the rest of their lives with payments and interest. This all leads people to not know or understand the true value of money and leads to poor financial decisions down the road that destroys their lives.
This all could be summed up easily. If you dont have money for something, you do NOT DESERVE IT.
Simple. End of story. Economy would be fixed in the blink of an eye.
Quote: ZenKinGIve had a plan before I came here and still believe in it. I just ran bad in the beginning thats all. My projection was to have over 500k within 5 years.
Its also not a priority for me to double or triple it or whatever you said. As long as I can make my own hours, do something I enjoy, and live comfortably, Im happy. You cant take your money with you to the grave and id never spoil my kids with money. They better work for it.
Great plan, but it’s never as easy as you say. Just saying you have potential greatness in you. And by greatness I mean making money. No clue if it’s beating casinos or creating the next YouTube, the next MLM scheme or whatever.
But I’m not alone on here on seeing it. Take the energy you put into counting cards and maximize it to your advantage.
If money isn’t your goal, find what makes you tick and do it. But stop thinking others are wrong for how they see life and what is “success “.
The world can be yours. You are a refreshing voice of your generation. I hope you make the most it. Seriously.
Obviously, you can't just take the first person you come across on Craigslist.
