Its official. I quit
Quote: MrBoI have to conclude, zenking was not suspended for an insult, since in now 5 pages, no one has been able to identify who the insult was directed at. So I am assuming his suspension was more about language, several uses of the F-bomb.
If that is against the rules of the site, I can appreciate that.
Yes, against the rules.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/2-forum-rules/#post37215
Quote: ZenKinGJust lost 4500 in 2 trips. I've had enough of this mob city. Over 200 hours played and down 5k playing 90% of those hours by backcounting. Let that sink in. About a 5% chance of this happening and coincidently it happens as soon as I get to vegas.
I hope the mob is happy rigging the games. Bankroll down to 43k due to expenses and the 5k loss. Absolutey sickened. All the work ive put in to get to vegas gone before my eyes. Its actually umbelievable. You guys have no idea. Over 1100 hours played and +36.7k to show for it. Fuck off vegas. Glad money means so much to you fucking faggots
So. I've been asked to review and process this.
No personal insult towards the forum and ita members intended.
14 days for profanity. 4th offense logged, about the 7th overall for f-bombs.
Quote: MrBoOk, I have now gone back and read some of zenking's posts to familiarize myself with what is going on. After doing so, I have more questions than answers. Since zenking is not here to answer, can anyone confirm these details.
Zenking believes in is the 1970's and the mobs run Las Vegas casinos. ??
Zenking moved to Las Vegas in the last year and has played 200 hours of fairly low stakes blackjack. ??
20 hours a month might be an amount an extremely high stakes player plays, but a lower level player should be grinding many more hours to try to make a living wage.
Zenking has lost $5000 during his 200 hours of play in Las Vegas over the last year. ??
This is a relatively small loss over a very insignificant period of time. Has any one explained to zenking that blackjack card counting is not a short term type endeavor?
Zenkings total blackjack career consists of 1100 hours, including whereever he came from pre-Las Vegas. That should be about a years worth of play for a lower level grinder type player. And in the 1100 hours or about a year's worth of play, he is +38k ??
That sounds like a pretty decent result for a new player during their first 1000 hours, considering mistakes and the learning curve. I think the whole issue here may be unrealistic expectations.
Stop with all that rational logic. ZenKing is cursed. It really is that simple.
The part you left out is his exaggerated bankroll. Although he has the money he is not willing to put it at risk. His true bankroll was more like 10k and he is tapping out. Sayonara
Quote:Just lost 4500 in 2 trips. I've had enough of this mob city. Over 200 hours played and down 5k playing 90% of those hours by backcounting. Let that sink in. About a 5% chance of this happening and coincidently it happens as soon as I get to vegas.
Good grief, who would want to try and grind out wins by counting cards! Especially in LV. Is the minimalist life style really that appealing???
Nobody counts cards other than to camouflage what they're really doing to win... which is hole carding. And Las Vegas isn't where you want to be.
My suggestion to Zen is give up the minimalist dream and copy what the numerous 20/ 30 year olds are doing on this board. Take up hole carding. Travel to Indiana or Florida. You'll make real money and life will be good.
If you can't beat em....Quote: ZenKinGGlad money means so much to you f***ing fa**ots
Quote: MaxPenStop with all that rational logic. ZenKing is cursed. It really is that simple.
The part you left out is his exaggerated bankroll. Although he has the money he is not willing to put it at risk. His true bankroll was more like 10k and he is tapping out. Sayonara
I don't see the cursed aspect. I see normal variance that apparently he doesn't understand or recognize. Again, it seems we are back to unrealistic expectations and a lack of fundamental understanding of how card counting works.
I get the feeling members here are not willing, nor interested in helping provide a fundamental understanding of card counting because of this members attitude. Would it be against the rules to direct him to a forum more specifically about blackjack like BJ21, blackjack the forum or blackjackinfo where there might be members more willing to help?
Quote: JoemanF-bombs aside, I'm pretty sure referring to anyone as a "bundle of sticks" around here will merit a vacay, possibly a permanent one.
What does bundle of sticks mean? I guess I am really out of it, if I need someone to explain the insults to me.
faggot is a bundle of sticks and a fag is a cigarette.Quote: MrBoWhat does bundle of sticks mean? I guess I am really out of it, if I need someone to explain the insults to me.
both of them can be associated with flaming.
Quote: MrBoI don't see the cursed aspect. I see normal variance that apparently he doesn't understand or recognize. Again, it seems we are back to unrealistic expectations and a lack of fundamental understanding of how card counting works.
I get the feeling members here are not willing, nor interested in helping provide a fundamental understanding of card counting because of this members attitude. Would it be against the rules to direct him to a forum more specifically about blackjack like BJ21, blackjack the forum or blackjackinfo where there might be members more willing to help?
What did the folks at those forums do to deserve that?
Quote: MrBoI don't see the cursed aspect. I see normal variance that apparently he doesn't understand or recognize. Again, it seems we are back to unrealistic expectations and a lack of fundamental understanding of how card counting works.
I get the feeling members here are not willing, nor interested in helping provide a fundamental understanding of card counting because of this members attitude. Would it be against the rules to direct him to a forum more specifically about blackjack like BJ21, blackjack the forum or blackjackinfo where there might be members more willing to help?
ZenKing is actually an exceptionally smart person. He knows everything he needs to know. He just refuses to listen to reason. He could excel at whatever he chose to do. All he has to do is again accept reality. It's a shame to watch a gifted person flounder. Maybe he has a sadistic side and is happy with his failure. I'm not sure.
I'm sure ZK was offered every ounce of practical and moral support possible. Warnings, hints, sage advice and even the odd spreadsheet. He seldom gives a steady reaction, either grumbling and threatening to beat up the casino staff, or accusing the mob of controlling Vegas or else Chinese cards are stacked against him. Oh, and when he wins he's a genius.Quote: billryanWhat did the folks at those forums do to deserve that?
We had folks set out on AP careers before: Stabworld comes to mind. He/they generally sucked in the wisdom, used it and took their chances with good grace. ZK is obviously still lacking a certain something: Temperament. Hope he stays hydrated. WMW will maybe help him with a few tips on temperament.
OMG, Me and WMW agree on something. Call 911.
$:o)
Quote: mcallister3200200 hours in almost 9 months since moving to LV, and 1100 total career hours? Hoping I interpreted that wrong, at his BR and stakes he should be closing in on 1100 hours played in 9 months, should have 900, I know that’s not so easy but totally realistic. And with 1000 hours in you would not be down if you’re playing a winning game on decent games. 200 hours X maybe $75/hr, 15k EV. 9 months living expenses at say 1500, do the math, the formula inevitably is going to lead to ruin, you have to put in a lot of hours or have a job/no expenses, or get lucky, to make it work. Never gave yourself a real chance.
It was all fun and games until you started posting here and making sense bruh
Quote: OnceDearZK is obviously still lacking a certain something: Temperament. Hope he stays hydrated. WMW will maybe help him with a few tips on temperament.
OMG, Me and WMW agree on something. Call 911.
$:o)
Mr or Ma'am Once Dear, If , by chance, you are ever in the US (Im presume you are overseas based upon your language), I would love to take you to play some craps. Open invitation. Im on the East Coast. Any time! I promise you that you will have a change of heart and walk away saying... Damn , that boy is fr$#$% good!
Quote: MrBoI don't see the cursed aspect. I see normal variance that apparently he doesn't understand or recognize. Again, it seems we are back to unrealistic expectations and a lack of fundamental understanding of how card counting works.
I get the feeling members here are not willing, nor interested in helping provide a fundamental understanding of card counting because of this members attitude. Would it be against the rules to direct him to a forum more specifically about blackjack like BJ21, blackjack the forum or blackjackinfo where there might be members more willing to help?
Do you feel like ZenKing asked specific questions about card counting that were not addressed? or that there is insufficient info presented in the readily-searchable hundreds of posts on this site about how to count, how hard it is to count, how wild the swings while counting are, etc.? What do they do differently at BJ21? Do they really start from scratch every time a new person wants to talk about counting?
Quote: WatchMeWinMr or Ma'am Once Dear, If , by chance, you are ever in the US (Im presume you are overseas based upon your language), I would love to take you to play some craps. Open invitation. Im on the East Coast. Any time! I promise you that you will have a change of heart and walk away saying... Damn , that boy is fr$#$% good!
Thanks for the invite. OFC, I'm male and a Brit in the UK. May visit Vegas in November. East-Coast unlikely ever.
It may cheer you to know I just hit and run my own online game £150 in £250 out. That's me done for the night.
Quote: rdw4potusDo you feel like ZenKing asked specific questions about card counting that were not addressed? or that there is insufficient info presented in the readily-searchable hundreds of posts on this site about how to count, how hard it is to count, how wild the swings while counting are, etc.? What do they do differently at BJ21? Do they really start from scratch every time a new person wants to talk about counting?
ZK felt that the casinos were cheating him. He identified his own SD being at about -2 or 5th percentile. He understands this, deep down.
He waffled between being cheated (probably false), being unlucky (probably true), being lucky (true only when he was appearing a comeback), and being the greatest (always).
People on the forum tried to help him branch out to other games. People on the forum tried to have him keep plugging away at his game. Others identified problems that he had with his attitude. Others deny his existence. Others denied his abilities. Some did all five.
Frankly, however, his pattern was that the maturity to weather the downturns and just chalk it up to bad luck which will always happening, even on the first attempt, was lacking.
None of us of course can disprove that the casinos were using preshuffled somewhere in China with missing cards. Because some casinos wouldn't show the cards face up to him, he was able to carry on his belief until it came reality for him.
Certainly one can feel the sting of bad luck. I've had some stunningly bad luck at VP, but I've come to the realization that some of it is my fault (I am not a perfect VP player, for example). I've thought that the machine was cheating me (in the moment) but I've gone back home and done the math and realized that I was probably just unlucky. Now, of course, to have proof that the machine was cheating me, I'd have to do some rigorous testing on that machine that would look at the distribution of cards. I've done that on the floor at times, looking for the distribution of Aces or Twos in a game, and counting the number of times I would get 4-of-a-kinds against the number of hands played.
But it is one thing to say bad luck and another to come up with a theory that you in particular is being cheated. One has to remember that when, at VP, you see another person on another machine pull out a 12x 4A for thousands, or a Royal. It happens, probably as often as you expect. The same is true in Table Games. For every person running -2, there is likely another person running +2 (standard deviations, not units), assuming that they know their own normal, accounting for their play.
ZK will be back. He just feels a bit sore, understandably so. I expect his ban for the F-bomb will be short, even with his past form. Will he ever control his emotions? No room for them in his game.Quote: Lucca3927And another one bites the dust, right?
Exactly! Good work! Chip Chip Chip!Quote: OnceDear
It may cheer you to know I just hit and run my own online game £150 in £200 out. That's me done for the night.
Quote: WatchMeWinExactly! Good work! Chip Chip Chip!
Bad Bad OnceDear. Just had to push for £250. Degenerate bstrd.
Made it, of course.
Quote: MaxPenZenKing is actually an exceptionally smart person. He knows everything he needs to know. He just refuses to listen to reason. He could excel at whatever he chose to do. All he has to do is again accept reality. It's a shame to watch a gifted person flounder.
There seems to be some real contradictions in your post. Evident from zenking's post is that he does not understand normal variance. So he most certainly does not understand everything he needs to know and understand to be successful.
How smart or intelligent a person is does not necessarily correlate to success playing blackjack even if the player has a fundamental understanding of card counting. Case in point would be Eliot Jacobson, Ph D in mathematics, clearly understands the mathematics of card counting, but attempted and failed to play professionally and ended up working for the casino industry.
Quote: MrBoThere seems to be some real contradictions in your post. Evident from zenking's post is that he does not understand normal variance. So he most certainly does not understand everything he needs to know and understand to be successful.
How smart or intelligent a person is does not necessarily correlate to success playing blackjack even if the player has a fundamental understanding of card counting. Case in point would be Eliot Jacobson, Ph D in mathematics, clearly understands the mathematics of card counting, but attempted and failed to play professionally and ended up working for the casino industry.
Understanding something and dealing with reality are 2 different things. ZenKing obviously cannot emotionally deal with variance. ZenKing has said that there would be no-one better than him to run a casino.
Quote: rdw4potusDo you feel like ZenKing asked specific questions about card counting that were not addressed? or that there is insufficient info presented in the readily-searchable hundreds of posts on this site about how to count, how hard it is to count, how wild the swings while counting are, etc.? What do they do differently at BJ21? Do they really start from scratch every time a new person wants to talk about counting?
I haven't read enough to know what was and wasn't addressed. What has become evident is that the environment here is now toxic to anyone helping him, mostly because of his own attitude and behavior. BJ21 is probably not a good example any longer, but at some of the other blackjack specific forum, there are some long time successful members and players that are willing to help newer players. At blackjack the forum, such players would include Norm Wattenberger, Don Schlesinger, bigplayer and Zenmaster Flash. Don Schlesinger also is at blackjackinfo, along with KewlJ. All of these players should be able to impress that normal variance and swings are part of blackjack card counting play.
What's it to you?
ZenKing turned himself into a punching bag. Not everyone is treated the way he is treated, and not everyone acts the way he acts. For the most part, people are greeted with a helpful attitude, and ridicule is earned, not automatically given.
Quote: MrBoI haven't read enough to know what was and wasn't addressed. What has become evident is that the environment here is now toxic to anyone helping him, mostly because of his own attitude and behavior. BJ21 is probably not a good example any longer, but at some of the other blackjack specific forum, there are some long time successful members and players that are willing to help newer players. At blackjack the forum, such players would include Norm Wattenberger, Don Schlesinger, bigplayer and Zenmaster Flash. Don Schlesinger also is at blackjackinfo, along with KewlJ. All of these players should be able to impress that normal variance and swings are part of blackjack card counting play.
None of those people can teach ZK anything. At this point, I doubt anyone can. A few weeks ago, he was interested in a side project. At least two people gave him very valuable advice on how to look into taking it to the next level. I'll bet a doughnut he never followed up on it.
Quote: MaxPenZenKing obviously cannot emotionally deal with variance.
My impression, and I may be wrong, is that he doesn't understand the variance associated with card counting. You must have an understanding of it first. From what I have read, I don't believe he understands it. And I think he has worn out his welcome here to the point that no one is interested in helping him understand it.
But, if you are correct and he does have a fundamental understanding of variance and just cannot accept that this is the way card counting works, then he has no business pursuing card counting as anything other than a hobby.
Quote: Dalex64MrBo,
What's it to you?
ZenKing turned himself into a punching bag. Not everyone is treated the way he is treated, and not everyone acts the way he acts. For the most part, people are greeted with a helpful attitude, and ridicule is earned, not automatically given.
What's it to me? Do I need some sort of special invitation to express my opinion? I am a 40 year professional blackjack player and I just see a young guy that doesn't understand the fundamentals of how variance works, and he is being ridiculed for it.
I am not here to defend zenking. I wouldn't consider him for my team. But on a message board forum, I would like to help him understand variance and that what he sees as some sort of oddity, is in fact completely normal variance. After he understands that if he can't handle variance then he isn't cut out for blackjack play, but I really don't think he has gotten to the understanding point yet and I don't see anyone offering much in the way of constructive help.
Quote: MrBoWhat's it to me? Do I need some sort of special invitation to express my opinion? I am a 40 year professional blackjack player and I just see a young guy that doesn't understand the fundamentals of how variance works, and he is being ridiculed for it.
I am not here to defend zenking. I wouldn't consider him on my team. But on a message board forum, I would like to help him understand variance and that what he sees as some sort of oddity, is in fact completely normal variance. After he understands that if he can't handle variance then he isn't cut out for blackjack play, but I really don't think he has gotten to the understanding point yet and I don't see anyone offering much in the way of constructive help.
You are a very late entry into this affair. Let's leave it at that. I moved out here a few months before ZK and local members have gone out of their way to be helpful to both of us.
You aren't Bojack, from Ken Smiths forums, are you?
Quote: billryanYou aren't Bojack, from Ken Smiths forums, are you?
I have used a number of handles on different forums. My handle here was so that one specific person in my first posts, would know who I was and might consider what I was saying. I'd like to just leave it at that.
What handle where you on Ken's forum?
Yes, and we thank all you 'green inkers' for your enforcement efforts.Quote: beachbumbabsThere are rules. Everyone who signs up agrees to them. We enforce them as best we can. End of story.
It doesn't take much time to type some symbols to "blur" what would otherwise be utterly unacceptable language but often even that should be avoided. I even hesitated when I posted that thread about the quality of the beer at Casino Royale having doubled in price, but the curse word was actually a direct quote. Think of the forum as a craps table and don't use language that the Boxman would not allow even if no women happened to actually be present at the table at the time.
So, once again, a collective hat tip to all the green inkers.
Quote: MrBoI don't see the cursed aspect. I see normal variance that apparently he doesn't understand or recognize. Again, it seems we are back to unrealistic expectations and a lack of fundamental understanding of how card counting works.
I get the feeling members here are not willing, nor interested in helping provide a fundamental understanding of card counting because of this members attitude. Would it be against the rules to direct him to a forum more specifically about blackjack like BJ21, blackjack the forum or blackjackinfo where there might be members more willing to help?
You might try reading 300-some pages of posts of assistance, discussion, and support, including several personal meetings people scheduled with ZK, many posts of guidance and references, over the last year and a half, in several threads, before passing erroneous judgment on the people here.
You might also try checking memberships on those other forums for either ZenKing or Lone Wolf (as in his sig) to see how many of them had no patience for his worst impulses and banned him. I know of more than one among your preferred options.
I am one of those who has worked again and again to keep him viable here, get others to help him or meet with him, make sure he had not turned suicidal at one point (where he said he was contemplating it), and back off even legitimate criticism when it seemed necessary. Given that, your post pisses me off.
As I said, do the full archives, then you can comment. Click on his name, go back to the first time he posted, read it all, with dozens of members responding. It will take you about 4 days, non-stop.
Quote: MaxPenZenKing has said that there would be no-one better than him to run a casino.
He's wrong on that part too. Variance goes both ways. You can't flip your lid when someone beats you for $100,000 even though you had the advantage over them the whole time.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13He's wrong on that part too. Variance goes both ways. You can't flip your lid when someone beats you for $100,000 even though you had the advantage over them the whole time.
ZCore13
Not with his own money.
Quote: MrBoI have used a number of handles on different forums. My handle here was so that one specific person in my first posts, would know who I was and might consider what I was saying. I'd like to just leave it at that.
What handle where you on Ken's forum?
shadroch
Anyways... I don't know how I missed the ZK thread about hookers on the roof. If anyone can help me find that one, I will gladly owe them a beer. I'll be at the cal in a few weeks to pay the debt.
Not that my vote counts, but I do enjoy reading ZK threads. I think I like the drama... And the preshuffled Chinese prison cards.
Finally, I'm not challenging the rules, but 14 days for a f bomb on the internet seems extreme. I realize it's at least the 4th time and there were multiple warnings... But what's the limit? How many more f's until it's nuke time?
I recall one member being nuked for threatening a members life on this board. I'm generally curious how many f bombs are equivalent to 1 death threat.
Quote: MaxPenI think it's funny that there are articles on hookers and what not published on the site but if you drop the eff BOMB......Watch out.
And....if you look at the profile of author of that article, and read the threads reguarding it, I’m 99% sure it was written under a known duplicate account.
queen
Quote: ontariodealerand another one bites the dust.
queen
Not really. Zenking is coming back in 2 weeks. :)
Quote: ontariodealernot that he quit here (who cares)...the fact that he's packing in counting cards in l. v.
Okay, thanks for clarifying. :) I thought you were talking about his recent suspension. ;)
HE JUST DOESNT WANT TO ACCEPT AND DEAL WITH IT.
I have been doing AP since the early 90's and have known more AP's than I can count. I cant think of one (even guys that have more money than god) who were like robots when it came to losing money. I'm sure there are a few rare people who have no emotions when it comes to losing, I just haven't met them yet.
Most of the guys I knew that had very high-risk tolerances are not in the game anymore. There are a rare few that got very lucky and hit big early on and are still doing very well to this day.
Quote: MrBoWhat's it to me? Do I need some sort of special invitation to express my opinion? I am a 40 year professional blackjack player and I just see a young guy that doesn't understand the fundamentals of how variance works, and he is being ridiculed for it.
I am not here to defend zenking. I wouldn't consider him for my team. But on a message board forum, I would like to help him understand variance and that what he sees as some sort of oddity, is in fact completely normal variance. After he understands that if he can't handle variance then he isn't cut out for blackjack play, but I really don't think he has gotten to the understanding point yet and I don't see anyone offering much in the way of constructive help.
He understands variance quite well and has demonstrated that several times in his posts. He just can't believe his own variance and attributes it to cheating. That takes maturity.
Well, when Lady Variance goes against me I don't like to accept it either. I blame the fates, the crew, the dice, the shooter, the cigarette smoke .... have never blamed any stacked decks of Chinese heritage though.Quote: AxelWolfHE JUST DOESNT WANT TO ACCEPT AND DEAL WITH IT.
Went grocery shopping last evening and one of the quarts of milk leaked all over everything on the way home. Now I know I should not buy the milk first, stack heavy cans on top of things and then jamb on the brakes on the motorized cart causing the milk carton to fall, but come to think of it I think I did see a Chinese ex-con near my cart!
Funny. Sad. Karma?Quote: ZenKinGJust lost 4500 in 2 trips. I've had enough of this mob city. Over 200 hours played and down 5k playing 90% of those hours by backcounting. Let that sink in. About a 5% chance of this happening and coincidently it happens as soon as I get to vegas.
Timing was excellent. It was a FANTASTIC time to come to Vegas.
But ZenKing didn't pick up on the dozens (maybe hundreds of hints) in the posts.
Some non-counting situations were here in Vegas from July-Nov 2017, which were fantastic for low-budget APs.
The timing was phenomenal. The universe sent ZenKing some fantastic karma. And WHY did the universe push ZenKing to choose the particular MONTH he did to visit Vegas? But he didn't pick up his baseball glove to receive the karma, and it's long gone...
We all "tilt". Experience helps us handle it, predict it, have strategies for dealing with it.Quote: AxelWolfI have been doing AP since the early 90's and have known more AP's than I can count. I cant think of one (even guys that have more money than god) who were like robots when it came to losing money. I'm sure there are a few rare people who have no emotions when it comes to losing, I just haven't met them yet.
Some people are not ready for high variance (the low side of variance. most people like the high side of variance).
(1) After the stock-market lost all of 2018's gains in 1 week (-11% correction),
(2) I had a flat tire just before heading to the airport, and had to replace two tires for $500 on my return.
(3) Then in two hours, I lost all of 2018's casino gains. Negative for the year.
It's that "bad news happens in threes" thing. :-) Not mathematical...
Not a great February.
P.S. Stocks recovered 57% of the correction. So life's ups & downs continue.
I think if he keeps at AP, eventually something will come up and things will click for him. As Max pointed out, he's very intelligent and would be successful at many things, unfortunately, no matter how smart/ good you are at counting there's no way to outsmart the variance(perhaps in some cases).
As for now, It seems to me as if he's being stubborn about counting and he isn't going to give up untill one of two things happen...________or__________.
I hope he figures things out and does well.
I'm all for some serious ribbing, but this place can be brutal. We got people coming out of the woodwork just to give him sh*t. It's hard to watch, I really hate to see anyone I like getting bashed on this bad, especially when it's about serious stuff.
