Shuffle master truth solved
Quote: jopkeBecause there is hardware that allows for the sorting of cards, it would technically be possible to write software to make the machine deal cards any way you want. I have played around with decompiling the EPROMs used in older SHFL products and done some research on the Linux version used in the more modern ones. I think, in theory, someone could do it, but it would be very difficult and complicated.
I have talked to a number of folks who buy and sell shufflers, including SHFL techs, and I have yet to hear of it actually happening.
if you're willing to sell me one, i'm willing to do a PoC.
Can. More hands per hour, faster paced games
That draw excitement to the table. Most of the casinos I’ve seen don’t actually use then IDENTIFY part when shuffling a 6 deck shoe, rather just “missing card”
He had a bad week or few playing blackjack and theorized it was the shuffler.
He then pretends to buy a SM-MD3 and make claims about it having a beast mode and that casinos use the beast mode towards the end of the week to guarantee defeats of players.
He gets called out on it.
He cannot submit any proof.
I really don't understand what brings people to come up with this level of bull-crappery. To what end?
Quote: boymimboYou know, the weird thing about this is that a person was just willing to flat out lie to try to prove a point.
I really don't understand what brings people to come up with this level of bull-crappery. To what end?
I mean, it’s kinda our fault. These kind of things usually end up in more entertaining and informative threads for whatever reason.
How much attention would OP of gotten if he just calmly claimed that shufflemasters had a cheat mode? Instead he comes up with an in-depth web of lies, and several casino employees and shuffle master repair guys explaining in detail why this is BS. Which is a much better read.
Same with ZK...if he just came to the forum and said “awh shucks guys I’m losing” he would have gotten like 5 responses
in full view the insides of the machine..
This Master Shuffler is definetly rigged as I have observed many players got wiped clean when it is in so called “ beast mode”...
This forum unable to post video..
I will glady sent the video to anymore who wish to see
the machines when it is being repaired on the spots.
You can see the LEDs light blinking.. and the wheels turning.. somebody who has electronics or wiring knowldge can figure it out.
Quote: PaulCalvinsonAnybody wanna see an actual Master Shuffler being repair in a casino ?while other tables are still playing
in full view the insides of the machine..
This Master Shuffler is definetly rigged as I have observed many players got wiped clean when it is in so called “ beast mode”...
This forum unable to post video..
I will glady sent the video to anymore who wish to see
the machines when it is being repaired on the spots.
You can see the LEDs light blinking.. and the wheels turning.. somebody who has electronics or wiring knowldge can figure it out.
I love the "this forum is incapable of posting video/pictures" excuses. As if that absolves anyone of providing evidence.
Post your stuff to YouTube (if a video) or Imgur (if a picture) and link it here. It's not rocket surgery.
Quote: PaulCalvinsonAnybody wanna see an actual Master Shuffler being repair in a casino ?while other tables are still playing
in full view the insides of the machine..
This Master Shuffler is definetly rigged as I have observed many players got wiped clean when it is in so called “ beast mode”...
This forum unable to post video..
I will glady sent the video to anymore who wish to see
the machines when it is being repaired on the spots.
You can see the LEDs light blinking.. and the wheels turning.. somebody who has electronics or wiring knowldge can figure it out.
Gotta love the throw away accounts showing up every time a shuffler discussion comes up. I watch the machines being cleaned/repaired every week. I even clean them myself almost daily. You think blinking lights mean something? And beast mode... lol.
ZCore13
Quote: PaulCalvinsonAnybody wanna see an actual Master Shuffler being repair in a casino ?while other tables are still playing
in full view the insides of the machine..
This Master Shuffler is definetly rigged as I have observed many players got wiped clean when it is in so called “ beast mode”...
This forum unable to post video..
I will glady sent the video to anymore who wish to see
the machines when it is being repaired on the spots.
You can see the LEDs light blinking.. and the wheels turning.. somebody who has electronics or wiring knowldge can figure it out.
I was skeptical up until the part where you saw lights blinking and wheels turning, an obvious sign that beast mode was activated by casino mgmt
Quote: michael99000I was skeptical up until the part where you saw lights blinking and wheels turning, an obvious sign that beast mode was activated by casino mgmt
dag nabit! where is this video i want to see i want to seeeee
Quote: TigerWuWhy do casinos need to cheat with their shuffle machines? They make millions on the square. Why would I want to make $50 million illegally when I can make $45 million legally and not risk losing everything and going to jail? I just don't understand these conspiracy theories....
In general average income people cannot understand why filthy rich people cheat and steal
But it happens so damn often
They simply get into a never enough mode (Beast Mode lol)
Thats a sad fact unfortunately
Quote: TigerWuWhy do casinos need to cheat with their shuffle machines? They make millions on the square. Why would I want to make $50 million illegally when I can make $45 million legally and not risk losing everything and going to jail? I just don't understand these conspiracy theories....
This is a bogus argument. "Casinos" don't have motivations and make decisions; rather people have motivations and make decisions.
Top managers and executives often can earn very large bonuses if they can make revenues grow by a certain target number. They are given these incentive bonuses by the Board of Directors because stockholders want to see revenues increase every year, every quarter. The casino industry may plausibly be having difficulty making revenues grow each quarter. I think this kind of pressure is behind the upward creep in House Edge on casino games.
It is not at all difficult for me to believe that someone might resort to "enhancing the revenues" from table games in order to earn that $100,000 bonus this quarter. I am not claiming that it is happening, but most of us who have worked in senior management of a corporation can tell horror stories about unlawful or horrible things that have been done so that senior executives could earn their bonuses.
Quote: gordonm888
It is not at all difficult for me to believe that someone might resort to "enhancing the revenues" from table games in order to earn that $100,000 bonus this quarter. I am not claiming that it is happening, but most of us who have worked in senior management of a corporation can tell horror stories about unlawful or horrible things that have been done so that senior executives could earn their bonuses.
Okay, but in this specific instance, how many people have to be involved for this conspiracy to work?
Some senior execs, the dealers (who are going to notice something funny about the machines they work with 8 hours a day), the Shufflemaster techs, the pit staff... no one besides the execs are going to get that revenue bonus, so no one else has any incentive to play along, and that's too many people to keep quiet for any length of time.
If execs want those bonuses, it's way too easy to do it legally (as you said, higher house edges) than to perpetrate a conspiracy involving perhaps dozens of people from several different companies. It's probably far more likely they'd just cook the books somehow than get involved in a scheme with way too many loose ends and easily verifiable technical evidence just sitting out on a casino floor.
If I were managing at a place that had 100% tourists (Think Primm NV) then I would tighten the heck out of everything. For a place with 100% locals (your local indian casino), things have to be loose enough for people to want to come back.
My favorite casino quote is that you can shear a sheep once a month, but you can only skin him once.
Look at the difference between a LV Strip property and a LV Locals property to see the difference. Pai Gow Poker Progressive jackpot has a $5 bet at one, and a $1 bet at the other. Jackpots are relatively the same size. They are holding a much higher percentage of that $5 compared to the $1.
There is no reason to do anything illegal with a shuffle machine, not when there are so many legal and ethical ways to accomplish the same result.
PS If any casinos are hiring and paying $100,000 quarterly bonuses, please give me a call.
Quote: FCBLComish
PS If any casinos are hiring and paying $100,000 quarterly bonuses, please give me a call.
Screw the bonus, I'll take a straight $100,000 a year salary!
Quote: WizardTo anyone who watches the video, please explain to me how watching a guy lubricate and clean the parts proves the game is cheating.
Read english madam...
It is for the expert who knows a thing about electronics and wiring.. they may figure it out.
This is my opinion that I think the MS is rigged from
personal experience.. cos you know a certain hand that
you have is good for a win..but the MS always comes out
a point higher than you.. example you bet big at 3K
on carribean stud and have been playing for about 45 mins.. lets say u sit in number 4.. fixed position..
They are watching you how you play and your pattern or traits.. how u bet big and small amount..etc..
Remember they have camera all over...
They know what you are doing.. Do you know they know?... You think casino are stupid when a thinking players comes in to wipe the casino.. they let him get away?
About the 3K bet I place.. I got a full house.. a high chances of winning.. dealer got full house too with QQQ33 while I got a 10 10 10 6 6....
you know how much i could have walked away with this win.. you may say.. ahhh.. it is possible both way dealer and player have very good cards...
the point is.. base on observations of other player..
I found a pattern that a player who wages highbet.. sooner or later he will be dealth with low value card.. and the rest is history... my point is... If you played 10 consecutive game in poker.. the possibilty of loosing 10 game in a row is as remotely as being strike by lightning.
Also the dealer is always given the last SET of cards after all the players(5) are dealth with... don’t you think that dealer being dealth last may actually hae the MS to be programmed to give him the best cards while others are given low value cards.... If they are fair.. why not throw a dice and if it turns up 3.. then sitter 3 will be serve first and dealer served 4... so these means that even if MS is rigged... the dice is in control...
Think about this.. dealer always serve last sets of cards..
Do u get it..
Quote: heatmapdag nabit! where is this video i want to see i want to seeeee
As said before.. email me you adresss..
No gimmick..
Quote: AcesAndEightsI love the "this forum is incapable of posting video/pictures" excuses. As if that absolves anyone of providing evidence.
Post your stuff to YouTube (if a video) or Imgur (if a picture) and link it here. It's not rocket surgery.
You want come and get it.. email me
Quote: Zcore13Gotta love the throw away accounts showing up every time a shuffler discussion comes up. I watch the machines being cleaned/repaired every week. I even clean them myself almost daily. You think blinking lights mean something? And beast mode... lol.
ZCore13
Of cos you watch.. reallyyyyy.......!!!!!!
Proof it with video.. u sent me email.. u will get the video
as I said.. no gimmick...
I am sure many here would like to see live action in a Casino where the MS is being repair on the SPOT..
Quote: PaulCalvinsonRead english madam...
It is for the expert who knows a thing about electronics and wiring.. they may figure it out.
This is my opinion that I think the MS is rigged from
personal experience.. cos you know a certain hand that
you have is good for a win..but the MS always comes out
a point higher than you.. example you bet big at 3K
on carribean stud and have been playing for about 45 mins.. lets say u sit in number 4.. fixed position..
They are watching you how you play and your pattern or traits.. how u bet big and small amount..etc..
Remember they have camera all over...
They know what you are doing.. Do you know they know?... You think casino are stupid when a thinking players comes in to wipe the casino.. they let him get away?
About the 3K bet I place.. I got a full house.. a high chances of winning.. dealer got full house too with QQQ33 while I got a 10 10 10 6 6....
you know how much i could have walked away with this win.. you may say.. ahhh.. it is possible both way dealer and player have very good cards...
the point is.. base on observations of other player..
I found a pattern that a player who wages highbet.. sooner or later he will be dealth with low value card.. and the rest is history... my point is... If you played 10 consecutive game in poker.. the possibilty of loosing 10 game in a row is as remotely as being strike by lightning.
Also the dealer is always given the last SET of cards after all the players(5) are dealth with... don’t you think that dealer being dealth last may actually hae the MS to be programmed to give him the best cards while others are given low value cards.... If they are fair.. why not throw a dice and if it turns up 3.. then sitter 3 will be serve first and dealer served 4... so these means that even if MS is rigged... the dice is in control...
Think about this.. dealer always serve last sets of cards..
Do u get it..
congrats.....as a dealer for 45 years and a forum reader for the last 10 this is the stupidest post ever.....be proud.
if you are dealer for 45 years.. you should be alive by now... are you and extra from The Walking Living..?
I heard they making a Dealer Living Casino Series
staring dealer versus Patrons..
i can go watch them being repaired at my casino of which i live 5 minutes away
if you have ever read or found the trail of crumbs ive been throwing you would know that i dont care about the inside, as no one else should, because its a means to an end. and that end is shielded from everyone physically, as in if you can see electrical signals within the memory of the circuit board, you might have cancer. the memory and computations are more important to me. your video is all hype bruh
Quote: PaulCalvinsonQuote:a dealer for 45 years and a forum reader for the last 10 this is the stupidest post proud.
if you are dealer for 45 years.. you should be dead by now... are you and extra from The Walking Dead..?
I heard they making a Dealer Zombie Casino Series
staring dealer versus Patrons..
PaulCalvinson
We do not allow personal insults in here. This above, and your "Read English madam" (implying HE is stupid) remark to the Wizard are on the razor's edge. Say what you like about what someone else posts, (as OntarioDealer did above), but do not direct rude remarks at people. Warning. Thank you.
Also, there is a blue "quote" button in the reply box. Use that if you wish to quote someone.
Quote: heatmapim crazy, but not stupid
i can go watch them being repaired at my casino of which i live 5 minutes away
if you have ever read or found the trail of crumbs ive been throwing you would know that i dont care about the inside, as no one else should, because its a means to an end. and that end is shielded from everyone physically, as in if you can see electrical signals within the memory of the circuit board, you might have cancer. the memory and computations are more important to me. your video is all hype bruh
hold your horses man’mm...
read my first post.. I am just adding to the discussion about MS.. whether it is rigged or not or can it be rigged?
As there is no definite way to proof.. ones must gather as much information as possible..
Clues are..
MS picture or video
Stastics of data in actual playing
Obervation at least an hour of patrons played.
How they lose and whom loses.
I have all these data.. so imho.. Base on reading and research and with current Texhnologies and AI..
the possibilties are there.. The fact I am asking is
why.. don’t the casino throw a dice and see whom are serve with the first Set of cards?
why must the dealer always be last to serve the cards?
If the dealer are always serve last.. then technically they can programmed the dealer always have high value cards.. which means alot for a poker game.
I am not talking about black jack.. cos a high value card and with 6 decks serve nobody benefits but when applied to poker game.. all high value cards can made or break you...
enforcing communits liberals snow flakes feeling here..
yeah.. he has ever right to warned me..
Oh boy.. I am so scare.. FBI.. CIA gonna come for me
Boys.. watch what you said man...
He is the Enforcer of speech and he dicide what is to be said and not.. Welcome to Comuunist forum..
You just beat Kim Jun Ill to the top spot.
Forgive me Dear Leader..
Quote: PaulCalvinsonseems to me people can’t handle words..
Rest my case.
Insult me for all I care..
If words can kill..
I think your life is a failure.. Can’t handle it.
You edited this just as I was quoting it. I will address what you first said.
No one called YOU stupid. One person said your response to the Wizard was the stupidest post ever on this forum. There's a difference.
People showed an interest in seeing the video you offered. You can correspond with them by Private Message (the envelope on the menu bar above).
But you shouldn't expect people here to just believe your claims. You're dealing with the math of the game, with very short session results, and with swings (volatility) every game demonstrates, called variance. You have almost no evidence of a bias, and yet you claim the shufflers are rigged.
Prove it. That's all anyone is saying. Except many of us know you won't be able to, including those who work in the industry.
By the way, IF the game were rigged, it would be much easier to do it if the dealer receives their hand FIRST, not last. There's no way for the shufflers to know how many players are playing how many hands. So how is the dealer supposed to consistently get a better, or the best, hand at the table if they get their hand last? You'd be slightly more believable if you didn't put little dedicated watchers counting players and changing the cards up every hand into your conspiracy theory.
Quote: PaulCalvinsonguess there is a NSA beachbumbas policing and
enforcing communits liberals snow flakes feeling here..
yeah.. he has ever right to warned me..
Oh boy.. I am so scare.. FBI.. CIA gonna come for me
Boys.. watch what you said man...
He is the Enforcer of speech and he dicide what is to be said and not.. Welcome to Comuunist forum..
You just beat Kim Jun Ill to the top spot.
Forgive me Dear Leader..
What? You edited again...to this?
Since this rudeness is directed at me, I will let OD or Wizard make the call.
Quote: beachbumbabsSince this rudeness is directed at me, I will let OD or Wizard make the call.
I call for a three-day suspension.
Quote: MintyHmm, other than the spacing, bjpro and PaulCalvinson write quite similarly. Interesting coincidence. On a related note for future posters whose first postings here are bold claims: you will have much more credibility if you're writing in complete, well-punctuated, grammatically accurate sentences. While I certainly won't claim to be an expert here, I think jopke comes off as more trustworthy due to the presence of both facts and a more coherent set of posts.
There are valid arguments for it to be possible to hack a shuttle master into a beast mode. But why bother when you can just call your competing executive and agree to collude and start rolling out 6-5 blackjack and 1-3-6 three card. Changing payouts and making the best games more expensive to play increases the margins. And heck probably the best way for casinos to make more money is to increase their slot holds which of course they are entitled to do with absolutely no clue to the public except to see a slot technician changing the eproms in the middle of the night.
Rigging a shuttle master to make a few extra bucks is just a dumb concept.
Quote: MintyAbsolutely agree! Every time I'm in Vegas and see 6/5 tables full of people I just shake my head hope the Blackjack Gods have mercy on their souls. Hahaha.
In a thread chock full of wildly bold and unsubstantiated claims about shufflers
this post stands out as being quite reasonable.
Of course with all this 'ante' stuff and even payouts it may soon
be that black jack experts will recommend seeking out 6:5 games.
After all, casinos put large sign on the marquee trumpeting six to five
due to player ignorance and laziness.
As to rigged shufflers that is akin to casinos buying shaved dice.
Quote: FCBLComishI was going to come on here and ask the OP how the shuffler knows how many people are playing, and when the "last" packet of cards should come out, but then I figured I would just be wasting internet ink.
That's been asked dozens of times and usually ignored.
ZCore13
Quote: FCBLComishI was going to come on here and ask the OP how the shuffler knows how many people are playing, and when the "last" packet of cards should come out, but then I figured I would just be wasting internet ink.
It doesnt matter how many people are playing or even who 'hits' or doesnt 'hit' on whatever ridiculous hand they have. As long as the shuffler separates the 'good' cards from the 'bad' cards with a very wide margin, the dealer will clean house. A high density of 7s and 2s grouped together can also cause damage or separating the aces from the tens resulting in a lot of pushes and made soft hands by the dealer.
Whether its actually rigged or even has the capability to be rigged, who knows, but I definitely wouldnt put it past an illogical, irrational, and immoral indudtry that relies on taking your money to keep the lights on.
Quote: ZenKinGWhether its actually rigged or even has the capability to be rigged, who knows, but I definitely wouldnt put it past an illogical, irrational, and immoral indudtry that relies on taking your money to keep the lights on.
Casinos aren't "taking" anybody's money.... people willingly GIVE it to them.
I don't need to steal your wallet if I know you're going to drive over to my house and hand me your money with a smile on your face.
reputable even if you only get one dollar for it.
Quote: GialmereI agree that it's not worth it for casinos to cheat. They don't have to. I imagine that a small fry place would be squashed like a bug but, just out of curiosity, what would happen if a BIG name casino on the strip (say Caesars Palace with its big money lawyers) was caught red-handed rigging ALL its card shufflers? Would the Nevada Gaming Commission actually suspend its gambling license? Maybe an eight or nine figure fine? Both? The integrity of the state's main tourism draw would seem to demand some sort of heavy hand.
You know what would happen? NOTHING. Too much tax revenue lost for the city for a big name casino to ever lose their license, so whoever keeps using that argument is drunk off the koolaid. At most they'll get a petty 100k fine and have it covered up by the media of what actually went down and make it sound like it was just an 'accident' or that the pit bosses were not paying attention or doing their job, which also will have the added benefit to justify the fine. Then it's rinse and repeat like usual and all the drones in public buy the story and think justice was served.
I highly doubt they would even come close to losing their licence. They would toss some people under the bus, get fined, and that would be the end of it.Quote: FleaStiffIt would be a heavy fist: You will lose your license forever, so sell the place to someone
reputable even if you only get one dollar for it.
Quote: ZenKinGYou know what would happen? NOTHING. Too much tax revenue lost for the city for a big name casino to ever lose their license, so whoever keeps using that argument is drunk off the koolaid. At most they'll get a petty 100k fine and have it covered up by the media of what actually went down and make it sound like it was just an 'accident' or that the pit bosses were not paying attention or doing their job, which also will have the added benefit to justify the fine. Then it's rinse and repeat like usual and all the drones in public buy the story and think justice was served.
Wrong. Lol. Now the media is part of the collusion too huh? Directors, Managers, Dealers, Media, all against you. Lol. Your false and baseless accusations are hilarious.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Wrong. Lol. Now the media is part of the collusion too huh? Directors, Managers, Dealers, Media, all against you. Lol. Your false and baseless accusations are hilarious.
ZCore13
I never accused the pit bosses and dealers of being in on it if you actually read my posts, just higher management. Secondly, are you seriously going to sit here and tell me the media can't be controlled? That's the EASIEST of them all to manipulate and pay off and it happens every single day. I guess you also dont realize that the 'TV news', especially FOX news that you and every other drone sit back and watch each night on your couch, is bought out and controlled by politicians and the government.
Quote: ZenKinGI never accused the pit bosses and dealers of being in on it if you actually read my posts, just higher management. Secondly, are you seriously going to sit here and tell me the media can't be controlled? That's the EASIEST of them all to manipulate and it happens every single day.
The pit bosses and dealers would have to be in on anything except for a ridiculous notion that a Director or GM somehow invents a way to reprogram shufflers to know how many players and hands are being dealt. If it has anything to do with cards, dealers put them out and in some cases sort them afterward.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13The pit bosses and dealers would have to be in on anything except for a ridiculous notion that a Director or GM somehow invents a way to reprogram shufflers to know how many players and hands are being dealt. If it has anything to do with cards, dealers put them out and in some cases sort them afterward.
ZCore13
No they wouldn't because the cards come pre shuffled. The dealers never see what is in the pack as they just lay out the cards with the back facing them and check for marks, then throw it in the ASM, unless you're the Palms of course where there isnt even an ASM to verify the preshuffled cards. The floormen and shift managers dont see what's in there either because all they do is 'count them down' in the pit with the backs facing them to make sure its a 'complete set'. So if there is NO ASM and it comes preshuffled, what easily could be happening is the factory replacing 10s and Aces with 4s and 5s and the pit bosses and dealers would have no idea what is going on because the 'count' always says 312 cards for a 6 deck game and 416 cards for an 8 deck game.
I will say this though, when I think about it logically and every scenario even when its pre shuffled and NO ASM, having learned a while ago that pit bosses actually 'count the cards down' to see if the total number of cards are there, the only way for them to cheat, at least from a missing or adding cards standpoint, would be to replace 10s and Aces with 4s and 5s, which is a huge risk because if more then 6 or 8 of the same suited 5s for example came out before the shuffle, it would easily be exposed. Also if there is an ASM, these machines supposedly have to pass the compliant department to make sure they're not tampered with, so the ASM would know whats actually in the pack. The only actual way they could still cheat would be to program the ASM to not identify which cards are missing and also program the shuffler to somehow not allow more of 6 or 8 of the same suit to enter play for the scam to ever be exposed, but even for me, that's a bit 'out there' and too much work I think for a casino to try that.
Quote: ZenKinGNo they wouldn't because the cards come pre shuffled. The dealers never see what is in the pack as they just lay out the cards with the back facing them and check for marks, then throw it in the ASM, unless you're the Palms of course where there isnt even an ASM to verify the preshuffled cards. The floormen and shift managers dont see what's in there either because all they do is 'count them down' in the pit with the backs facing them to make sure its a 'complete set'. So if there is NO ASM and it comes preshuffled, what easily could be happening is the factory replacing 10s and Aces with 4s and 5s and the pit bosses and dealers would have no idea what is going on because the 'count' always says 312 cards for a 6 deck game and 416 cards for an 8 deck game.
So the factory is in on it now? But no $15 an hour employee has ever said anything?
ZCore13
