ZenKinG
ZenKinG
Joined: May 3, 2016
  • Threads: 56
  • Posts: 1443
July 10th, 2017 at 7:47:38 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Gaming regulations are very strict in Nevada. That includes cards and dice. Casinos would be fined heavily if they were found playing with crooked decks and the bad press that an MGM or CZR property would get from being caught on their most popular game would be devastating.

You should also realize that there are a bunch of people from MGM and CZR who read these forums all of time and you see them interject from time to time. In my opinion, the industry watches what this site is doing. There are also plenty of inside people who have left these casinos who would tell us if the decks were crooked. We would also see on the profit sheets a higher hold percentage for Blackjack on the strip casinos vs the downtown casinos.

Latest gaming revenue report

But here's a hint. 21 statewide for the last 12 months running is showing a win % of 14.42%. (148 casinos, 2,597 tables).
Clark county is 14.28%
Downtown is 13.71%
Strip is 14.14% (12 - 36 million dollar is showing 4 locations, 33 tables and 17.92%, 36-72 million showing 6 locations, 152 tables, 14.21%, 72 million+ showing 24 locations, 1,118 tables and 14.11% win)
North Las Vegas 20.28%
Laughlin 17.58%
Boulder 15.63%
Mesquite 16.78%
Rest of Clark 14.49%
Tahoe 15.78%
Elko 19.32%
Washoe (Reno) 14.57%

Blackjack composes about 12% of the revenue pie statewide, 15% on the strip, with 1 cent slots making more than Blackjack does. Bacarrat is the largest game on the Vegas strip making about as much as 1 cent slots

So in short, no evidence of the strip commanding more win % compared to the rest of Clark county or the state average. If the cards were gaffed you'd see a spike in those numbers on the strip with gaming likely raising more than an eyebrow.



Well, go ahead and explain to me how a casino can get caught when a gaming commission agent literally told me they dont check the cards either. They claimed they do periodic checks, but i have never ever seen a gaming agent inside a casino go up to a table. The only ones who knows what's in that pile of preshuffled chinese prison cards is some china shop halfway across the world and the top executives of these corporations.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
July 10th, 2017 at 8:01:06 PM permalink
The cards are manufactured in the USA and are preshuffle at the factory.

The story about the prison is a joke.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 5994
July 10th, 2017 at 8:51:42 PM permalink
Quote: ZenKinG

Quote: boymimbo

Gaming regulations are very strict in Nevada. That includes cards and dice. Casinos would be fined heavily if they were found playing with crooked decks and the bad press that an MGM or CZR property would get from being caught on their most popular game would be devastating.

You should also realize that there are a bunch of people from MGM and CZR who read these forums all of time and you see them interject from time to time. In my opinion, the industry watches what this site is doing. There are also plenty of inside people who have left these casinos who would tell us if the decks were crooked. We would also see on the profit sheets a higher hold percentage for Blackjack on the strip casinos vs the downtown casinos.

Latest gaming revenue report

But here's a hint. 21 statewide for the last 12 months running is showing a win % of 14.42%. (148 casinos, 2,597 tables).
Clark county is 14.28%
Downtown is 13.71%
Strip is 14.14% (12 - 36 million dollar is showing 4 locations, 33 tables and 17.92%, 36-72 million showing 6 locations, 152 tables, 14.21%, 72 million+ showing 24 locations, 1,118 tables and 14.11% win)
North Las Vegas 20.28%
Laughlin 17.58%
Boulder 15.63%
Mesquite 16.78%
Rest of Clark 14.49%
Tahoe 15.78%
Elko 19.32%
Washoe (Reno) 14.57%

Blackjack composes about 12% of the revenue pie statewide, 15% on the strip, with 1 cent slots making more than Blackjack does. Bacarrat is the largest game on the Vegas strip making about as much as 1 cent slots

So in short, no evidence of the strip commanding more win % compared to the rest of Clark county or the state average. If the cards were gaffed you'd see a spike in those numbers on the strip with gaming likely raising more than an eyebrow.



Well, go ahead and explain to me how a casino can get caught when a gaming commission agent literally told me they dont check the cards either. They claimed they do periodic checks, but i have never ever seen a gaming agent inside a casino go up to a table. The only ones who knows what's in that pile of preshuffled chinese prison cards is some china shop halfway across the world and the top executives of these corporations.



The revenue numbers and percent wins don't support your last paragraph and your claims that strip casinos are gaffing the games. And (apparently) you're not stupid, ZK. You could actually sit at one of the tables and count cards and come to the realization that in a six deck game with a 50% penetration that after about 10 shoes you would see every card coming out of that shoe and could verify for yourself. You say the decks are rigged and you have the capability to count cards. Tell us what cards are missing. Is it the 10 of hearts? The Jack of spades? Is it different in each deck?
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
ZenKinG
ZenKinG
Joined: May 3, 2016
  • Threads: 56
  • Posts: 1443
July 10th, 2017 at 9:11:07 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Quote: ZenKinG

Quote: boymimbo

Gaming regulations are very strict in Nevada. That includes cards and dice. Casinos would be fined heavily if they were found playing with crooked decks and the bad press that an MGM or CZR property would get from being caught on their most popular game would be devastating.

You should also realize that there are a bunch of people from MGM and CZR who read these forums all of time and you see them interject from time to time. In my opinion, the industry watches what this site is doing. There are also plenty of inside people who have left these casinos who would tell us if the decks were crooked. We would also see on the profit sheets a higher hold percentage for Blackjack on the strip casinos vs the downtown casinos.

Latest gaming revenue report

But here's a hint. 21 statewide for the last 12 months running is showing a win % of 14.42%. (148 casinos, 2,597 tables).
Clark county is 14.28%
Downtown is 13.71%
Strip is 14.14% (12 - 36 million dollar is showing 4 locations, 33 tables and 17.92%, 36-72 million showing 6 locations, 152 tables, 14.21%, 72 million+ showing 24 locations, 1,118 tables and 14.11% win)
North Las Vegas 20.28%
Laughlin 17.58%
Boulder 15.63%
Mesquite 16.78%
Rest of Clark 14.49%
Tahoe 15.78%
Elko 19.32%
Washoe (Reno) 14.57%

Blackjack composes about 12% of the revenue pie statewide, 15% on the strip, with 1 cent slots making more than Blackjack does. Bacarrat is the largest game on the Vegas strip making about as much as 1 cent slots

So in short, no evidence of the strip commanding more win % compared to the rest of Clark county or the state average. If the cards were gaffed you'd see a spike in those numbers on the strip with gaming likely raising more than an eyebrow.



Well, go ahead and explain to me how a casino can get caught when a gaming commission agent literally told me they dont check the cards either. They claimed they do periodic checks, but i have never ever seen a gaming agent inside a casino go up to a table. The only ones who knows what's in that pile of preshuffled chinese prison cards is some china shop halfway across the world and the top executives of these corporations.



The revenue numbers and percent wins don't support your last paragraph and your claims that strip casinos are gaffing the games. And (apparently) you're not stupid, ZK. You could actually sit at one of the tables and count cards and come to the realization that in a six deck game with a 50% penetration that after about 10 shoes you would see every card coming out of that shoe and could verify for yourself. You say the decks are rigged and you have the capability to count cards. Tell us what cards are missing. Is it the 10 of hearts? The Jack of spades? Is it different in each deck?



With all due respect, you clearly don't know what card counting consists of. You are not tracking individual suits and denominations. Were you being sarcastic?
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 5994
July 10th, 2017 at 11:00:40 PM permalink
No. I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I know exactly what card counting is. I've done it. Successfully. But my day job working from home 80% is far more profitable and fun.

You are claiming that the decks are rigged. To verify that, you can look for individual cards. That's what I would do. I would flat bet $25 all day and verify that all the cards are present in the decks. One way would be to count the frequency of each card on the sample size and perform statistical analysis on the cards. For example, count face cards and divide by the total cards dealt. Write down the results. If the results are consistently under 4/13ths then you know that the Chinese are shorting you face cards. Do the same with 3s to 6s. If the results are consistently over 3/13ths then you know that the Chinese are giving you extra low cards. Better yet, your true count totals at the end of each shoe should help you. If it is always coming out negative then you know that high cards are missing or low cards are excessive. That would be easy enough to do.

There are ways to prove that you are right or wrong.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
ZenKinG
ZenKinG
Joined: May 3, 2016
  • Threads: 56
  • Posts: 1443
July 10th, 2017 at 11:26:13 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

No. I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I know exactly what card counting is. I've done it. Successfully. But my day job working from home 80% is far more profitable and fun.

You are claiming that the decks are rigged. To verify that, you can look for individual cards. That's what I would do. I would flat bet $25 all day and verify that all the cards are present in the decks. One way would be to count the frequency of each card on the sample size and perform statistical analysis on the cards. For example, count face cards and divide by the total cards dealt. Write down the results. If the results are consistently under 4/13ths then you know that the Chinese are shorting you face cards. Do the same with 3s to 6s. If the results are consistently over 3/13ths then you know that the Chinese are giving you extra low cards. Better yet, your true count totals at the end of each shoe should help you. If it is always coming out negative then you know that high cards are missing or low cards are excessive. That would be easy enough to do.

There are ways to prove that you are right or wrong.



With most casinos cutting off 1.5 or more on 6 deckers and 8 deckers, even if you sat there day after day, you would never get sufficient information to get a good feel for what's actually left. Maybe if casinos were cutting off a half deck or less, your test might work. From the time ive played so far i havent had many extreme TCs at the end of a shoe anyway so doing your test would leave me with the same information as i started with.

All in all, im sure the game is fair anyway, it's just the shady procedures ive seen not only here but in PA as well and i dont understand it one bit. All it does is kill the transparency between the patron and casino. To make things worse they claim they do it as a profit maximizing strategy LOL. Yea some strategy that is, when 95% of the time tables are empty after changing the cards or opening up a table for gaming that day.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 5994
July 10th, 2017 at 11:55:07 PM permalink
Most casinos change cards every few hours. The changing of cards when people are already at the table is why they do this. A fifteen minute wait to do a card change will send players to other tables or worse yet a meal or a departure from the casino. A two minute wait means that the players stick around or go to the bathroom and come right back. The profitability issue comes mid-day when they change cards and there are people already playing. They follow the same procedures whether it is at beginning of day or end of day.

For example, a couple of days ago I was up in Reno playing PGP and the cards were changed. Normally, I take that cue to run to the bathroom and come back. On a long change of cards I would have sauntered off to something else and meander back 20 - 30 minutes later. In this case, because the cards were getting changed much more quickly I had to move a bit quicker. Nonetheless, I went to the bathroom, went to find my glasses in the restaurant (they were there), looked for my wife (she disappeared and went up to our room) and then I scoped out a VP DW Progressive game .25 where the night before I had knocked up the 4D progressive from $320 to $413 all by myself. The machine was locked out earlier in the day and it opened up and I noticed that the 4D jackpot was now up to $498. Apparently that locked game was being held for someone to pick off that Jackpot (at $413 the game becomes a 1.2% player advantage). So I played it and within about 2 minutes it hit and recovered the $300 I had tossed into the game on the previous night (a 7x Comp multiplier helped). Anyway, the whole excursion took 10 minutes and by the time I was back the PGP had already played 5 hands since the shuffle.

Any strategy that saves the casino time is good for the casino. It means that on the Saturday swing shifts when tables are about to open they can open 15 minutes quicker. Most people believe in the cards. What they don't believe in is the shuffling machine or the dealer.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
ZenKinG
ZenKinG
Joined: May 3, 2016
  • Threads: 56
  • Posts: 1443
July 11th, 2017 at 12:11:05 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Most casinos change cards every few hours. The changing of cards when people are already at the table is why they do this. A fifteen minute wait to do a card change will send players to other tables or worse yet a meal or a departure from the casino. A two minute wait means that the players stick around or go to the bathroom and come right back. The profitability issue comes mid-day when they change cards and there are people already playing. They follow the same procedures whether it is at beginning of day or end of day.

For example, a couple of days ago I was up in Reno playing PGP and the cards were changed. Normally, I take that cue to run to the bathroom and come back. On a long change of cards I would have sauntered off to something else and meander back 20 - 30 minutes later. In this case, because the cards were getting changed much more quickly I had to move a bit quicker. Nonetheless, I went to the bathroom, went to find my glasses in the restaurant (they were there), looked for my wife (she disappeared and went up to our room) and then I scoped out a VP DW Progressive game .25 where the night before I had knocked up the 4D progressive from $320 to $413 all by myself. The machine was locked out earlier in the day and it opened up and I noticed that the 4D jackpot was now up to $498. Apparently that locked game was being held for someone to pick off that Jackpot (at $413 the game becomes a 1.2% player advantage). So I played it and within about 2 minutes it hit and recovered the $300 I had tossed into the game on the previous night (a 7x Comp multiplier helped). Anyway, the whole excursion took 10 minutes and by the time I was back the PGP had already played 5 hands since the shuffle.

Any strategy that saves the casino time is good for the casino. It means that on the Saturday swing shifts when tables are about to open they can open 15 minutes quicker. Most people believe in the cards. What they don't believe in is the shuffling machine or the dealer.



Caainos only change the cards once a day for shoe games. I already confirmed that. They also only change it around 4am when its dead and no ones there. So again tell me how this is a profit strategy?
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14484
July 11th, 2017 at 12:46:18 AM permalink
no, I don't recall difference between win and drop.
No, I don't see how Baccarat and MiniBacc have different win rates when its same rules just different amounts bet and differently dressed dealers.

As to prisons and cards... the used cards are sorted as part of a prison labor contract. No other involvement.

And New Mexico casinos actually force the dealers to sort the cards into proper order before the deck is retired which is very boring work.

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