D Day in Vegas

How long ago did you prove the casinos were cheating you? Yet you've continued to let them cheat you out of thousands of dollars. How long ago did you prove you were cursed more than anyone else has ever been cursed? Yet you continue to lose thousands of dollars simply because you continue to play knowing full well you are cursed.

Handing your money to known cheaters and playing blackjack with a curse is entirely on you. Just as we have proven the casinos cheat and you are cursed, we are now proving it is your choices that are causing all of your problems

Here you go again with your lies about adding extra 4s and 5s to the deck,but you still haven't ever shown any proof.It should be trivial for the world's greatest counter ie... (you)
To watch for 7 of a particular suit of 4s and 5s in a 6 deck game. Then you would have proof but you can't prove what isn't true.

just start doubling down on hard 15s and 16s....that'll teach 'em!

ZK, If you strongly feel Vegas games are rigged, why can't you travel to other places and play. I am sure that there are plenty of beatable games in USA. You can try other casino destinations like Biloxi, tunica, Shreveport. Heard that they have good beatable games but I never played there.

Quote: fearlessdragon

ZK, If you strongly feel Vegas games are rigged, why can't you travel to other places and play. I am sure that there are plenty of beatable games in USA. You can try other casino destinations like Biloxi, tunica, Shreveport. Heard that they have good beatable games but I never played there.

Expenses would eat up my bankroll. I dont feel like paying for flights, hotel, rental cars, and also paying rent back in vegas when im not even there. Hit a losing streak on top of it with all the traveling and it would be a nightmare. Maybe if I could ever hit EV, Ill start traveling more and maybe just move out of my apartment as well.

There was a post on other counting site one of the ancients i consider about Mr. Kool jason claiming how Mr. ZenKing claimed he had a 50k or 60k bankroll.
now Kool Jay claimed that the Zk ranted and complained about losing 5k, 10k and even 20grand this is NOT!!! a full blown 50k roll as we all know

thats fair but what i do not understand or comprehend is that why is Zk mad about winning in the long run?? this guy claimed to win in the neighborhood of the 40kish

there are legions of gamblers who wish they could make 5k a year and gamble w/ the casinos bank so i really dont understand when he losses 3k or 6k hes just losing SOME of THEIR winnings and not his bank account money'''


so tell me why is he complaining and about this that and the other???

Quote: ZenKinG

No wonder everyone who comes here to count moves on to other AP plays, it's because this mob ridden city rigs their games. The reason they back you off is simple, it's not because they're scared of you making money off them, it's to perpetuate the scam to not let you play long enough to know they're cheating you.

It's not because it's rigged, they move on to other AP plays because same have a much bigger edge, and often, a lower bankroll requirement. The better AP's also network together so that they can pool a large bankroll, if needed, for a play that justifies it.

You're still sitting on the kind of stack that you can very easily become a machine AP, and I mean, solo easy. I don't know how much of it you'd have to figure out on your own at this point or who might still be willing to help you, but you are certainly bankrolled enough.

Quote: sidthesquid

There was a post on other counting site one of the ancients i consider about Mr. Kool jason claiming how Mr. ZenKing claimed he had a 50k or 60k bankroll.
now Kool Jay claimed that the Zk ranted and complained about losing 5k, 10k and even 20grand this is NOT!!! a full blown 50k roll as we all know

thats fair but what i do not understand or comprehend is that why is Zk mad about winning in the long run?? this guy claimed to win in the neighborhood of the 40kish

there are legions of gamblers who wish they could make 5k a year and gamble w/ the casinos bank so i really dont understand when he losses 3k or 6k hes just losing SOME of THEIR winnings and not his bank account money'''


so tell me why is he complaining and about this that and the other???

I'd probably get a suspension if I gave you the diagnosis, so we'll just say he doesn't stay hydrated enough. :)


ZCore13

i truly do not understand his understanding of blackjack, my sims show you can easily and i mean easily lose 1/3 or 2/3 of his bankroll depending on his max bet 250 no wonder hes complaining so much LOL but in reality its THEIR money and not his money so he should shut up be happy his not gambling with his own income and soldier on like Kool jay did for over a decade

i mean Kool jay cried about losing 33 max bets a couple times 5 years into his career so whats the deal? you lost 8 grand but make 30 grand or upwards of 50k a year ??

wow is all i have to say to that

Quote: sidthesquid

There was a post on other counting site one of the ancients i consider about Mr. Kool jason claiming how Mr. ZenKing claimed he had a 50k or 60k bankroll.
now Kool Jay claimed that the Zk ranted and complained about losing 5k, 10k and even 20grand this is NOT!!! a full blown 50k roll as we all know

thats fair but what i do not understand or comprehend is that why is Zk mad about winning in the long run?? this guy claimed to win in the neighborhood of the 40kish

there are legions of gamblers who wish they could make 5k a year and gamble w/ the casinos bank so i really dont understand when he losses 3k or 6k hes just losing SOME of THEIR winnings and not his bank account money'''


so tell me why is he complaining and about this that and the other???

You dont understand? Maybe if you actually put in the hours and werent a fraud player like every other counter on these forums, just maybe you would understand. Or maybe its because i will never hit my EV ever? Im performing at half of my EV after 1000 hours. 1000 HOURS. Better to just shut up and dont talk about things u have no idea about. Those people who you claim woukd be happy makimg 5k are playing much smaller stakes or dont have an edge at all so thats not even a comparison.

Not to mention as soon as i move out i hit one of my biggest losing streaks ever. Its not all blackjack frustration but the fact im honestly cursed. Not one time in my life am i ever on the good side of a 50/50. I have the worst timing known to man. I have to work twice as hard as the next guy just to be even.

At this point i dont give a fuck anymore. I already proved im the best and have no regrets. If this kind of bad luck and all the garbage in between, if thats what it takes, i dont even care anymore. I honestly feel bad for the next pit boss that backs me off. I want to see this city get rid of me.

I thought you were down 1 SD from EV?

Quote: ZenKinG

You dont understand? Maybe if you actually put in the hours and werent a fraud player like every other counter on these forums, just maybe you would understand. Or maybe its because i will never hit my EV ever? Im performing at half of my EV after 1000 hours. 1000 HOURS. Better to just shut up and dont talk about things u have no idea about. Those people who you claim woukd be happy makimg 5k are playing much smaller stakes or dont have an edge at all so thats not even a comparison.

Not to mention as soon as i move out i hit one of my biggest losing streaks ever. Its not all blackjack frustration but the fact im honestly cursed. Not one time in my life am i ever on the good side of a 50/50. I have the worst timing known to man. I have to work twice as hard as the next guy just to be even.

At this point i dont give a fuck anymore. I already proved im the best and have no regrets. If this kind of bad luck and all the garbage in between, if thats what it takes, i dont even care anymore. I honestly feel bad for the next pit boss that backs me off. I want to see this city get rid of me.

Mods, seriously when is this going to end? He continues to insult people and has been warned about language at least 12 times. Sounds like a good time for the ban hammer.

Quote: GWAE

Mods, seriously when is this going to end? He continues to insult people and has been warned about language at least 12 times. Sounds like a good time for the ban hammer.

I don't know about a ban... I gotta say this thread has grown on me and I, like many others, enjoy reading it. Also a daily reminder to all of us of how maddening perfectly plausible bad variance can be.
I would argue that at least he's always kept it to this one thread and everyone on this thread knows what to expect by now.
But that's just based on my selfish wish and not the rules :)

I've just joined but I marvel at a thread where someone thinks they're going to withdraw $$$$ from the casinos with only $61k as an overall gaming/living bankroll. Just what casinos salivate over. Try counting two tables at once. That ought to do the trick.

Quote: ZenKinG

You dont understand? Maybe if you actually put in the hours and werent a fraud player like every other counter on these forums, just maybe you would understand. Or maybe its because i will never hit my EV ever? Im performing at half of my EV after 1000 hours. 1000 HOURS. Better to just shut up and dont talk about things u have no idea about. Those people who you claim woukd be happy makimg 5k are playing much smaller stakes or dont have an edge at all so thats not even a comparison.

Not to mention as soon as i move out i hit one of my biggest losing streaks ever. Its not all blackjack frustration but the fact im honestly cursed. Not one time in my life am i ever on the good side of a 50/50. I have the worst timing known to man. I have to work twice as hard as the next guy just to be even.

At this point i dont give a fuck anymore. I already proved im the best and have no regrets. If this kind of bad luck and all the garbage in between, if thats what it takes, i dont even care anymore. I honestly feel bad for the next pit boss that backs me off. I want to see this city get rid of me.

Zen king, you seem to insult people quite a lot from what I have seen breezing through the older pages of this thread.
In my hometown we would take that to the streets and it wouldn’t go so well I fear not for you.

Quote: ZenKinG

Or maybe its because i will never hit my EV ever? Im performing at half of my EV after 1000 hours. 1000 HOURS. Better to just shut up and dont talk about things u have no idea about.

You are greatly miscalculating your "Expected" Value. If you were to re-calculate correctly by accounting for cheating casinos and curses you would learn that you are actually far ahead of expectations. Again, these struggles are caused entirely from your choices: You chose to use an obviously wrong mathematical formula.

Oh well, I see it coming now.

Quote: horse

I've just joined....

My spidey sense is telling me that this isn't the first time you've joined....

Quote: ZenKinG

Meanwhile you got all these other counters who go on GWAE that all talk about how wonderful their positive variance has been and how 'lucky' they've been.

The show wouldn't be that interesting if the people that went on the show were losing.

People who lose don't tent to keep at it for long and probably don't get much experience to be invited on the show.

Everyone understands that you are destined to lose and Your Vegas is rigged. So when are you going to jump off the Dam bridge? Some might want to come out and watch that as well. If you are planning on heading back to mom's basement some might want to give you some of their extra free gas cards.

Quote: ZenKinG

You dont understand? Maybe if you actually put in the hours and werent a fraud player like every other counter on these forums, just maybe you would understand. Or maybe its because i will never hit my EV ever? Im performing at half of my EV after 1000 hours. 1000 HOURS. Better to just shut up and dont talk about things u have no idea about. Those people who you claim woukd be happy makimg 5k are playing much smaller stakes or dont have an edge at all so thats not even a comparison.

Not to mention as soon as i move out i hit one of my biggest losing streaks ever. Its not all blackjack frustration but the fact im honestly cursed. Not one time in my life am i ever on the good side of a 50/50. I have the worst timing known to man. I have to work twice as hard as the next guy just to be even.

At this point i dont give a fuck anymore. I already proved im the best and have no regrets. If this kind of bad luck and all the garbage in between, if thats what it takes, i dont even care anymore. I honestly feel bad for the next pit boss that backs me off. I want to see this city get rid of me.

Can't stop you from feeling sorry for yourself, but I can do something about the f-bomb and the personal insults to sid. You don't get to call him a fraud. You don't get to tell him to shut up.

7 days. See you then.

Oh no!!!! No drama for 7 days!!!! ZenKing is ZenKing is Zen King. I love this thread because I can fish out a lot of useful info.

What will we all do for entertainment around here? I wanted to see what happened to our cursed counter who is trying to beat the mob casinos. We should get a guest star to make this more interesting.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

My spidey sense is telling me that this isn't the first time you've joined....

No IP match as yet.

Quote: Mission146

No IP match as yet.

Definitely is familiar with the "can you count two tables" debate though.

Tough to really compare anything based on two posts.

Quote: SalGovernale

Zen king, you seem to insult people quite a lot from what I have seen breezing through the older pages of this thread.
In my hometown we would take that to the streets and it wouldn’t go so well I fear not for you.

SalGovernale, otoh. See ya, WoN.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Definitely is familiar with the "can you count two tables" debate though.

Sure I've read some about it, I'm familiar with it and I play a lot of blackjack, so my comment was meant to be facetious because I know it can't be done with any level of meaningful confidence/acuracy.

If you're this paranoid about what I wrote then block me. Or are you motivated by conflict? Doesn't make much sense that you'd attack a new member so fast.

Quote: sidthesquid

There was a post on other counting site one of the ancients i consider about Mr. Kool jason claiming how Mr. ZenKing claimed he had a 50k or 60k bankroll.
now Kool Jay claimed that the Zk ranted and complained about losing 5k, 10k and even 20grand this is NOT!!! a full blown 50k roll as we all know

thats fair but what i do not understand or comprehend is that why is Zk mad about winning in the long run?? this guy claimed to win in the neighborhood of the 40kish

there are legions of gamblers who wish they could make 5k a year and gamble w/ the casinos bank so i really dont understand when he losses 3k or 6k hes just losing SOME of THEIR winnings and not his bank account money'''


so tell me why is he complaining and about this that and the other???

Is there a reason you keep bringing up KJ and insist on using his first name?

Nvm. I should read the suspension list.

Quote: ZenKinG

At this point i dont give a fuck anymore. I already proved im the best and have no regrets. If this kind of bad luck and all the garbage in between, if thats what it takes, i dont even care anymore. I honestly feel bad for the next pit boss that backs me off. I want to see this city get rid of me.

This is the 2nd time that I know of that this person has made a threat towards casino staff. If I knew who he was I'd report him to the police. I would suggest anyone that does know any details about him to do exactly that. These threats are not funny and should be taken very seriously.

ZCore13

I don't see any threats. Just frustration.

@ZenKing, just remember, the person backing you off is likely just following orders from his superior, and they are well within their rights to kick you out. So don't take it out on the messenger. He likely doesn't want to back you off, FYI.

I think this thread should be required reading for anyone who wakes up one day and decides to invest the time and effort to learn to count cards.

Agreed. For me, I've given myself an 18 month ban on gambling. I don't have the bankroll to make it through the variances.

As for ZK, I do worry about his mental health. Too much paranoia, threats of violence the next time he is backed off, and far too much frustration to justify the real variances he will experience at the game. I get the frustration of being below variance.

But gambling institutions will protect their games to get their EV out of every game. For Blackjack counting countermeasures they've been working on for decades and is probably one of the easiest things to detect by security especially in Caesars/MGM/WynnCo properties where information and best practices are shared.

As for the cheating by adding small cards to shoes, likely not. The advent of 6-5 BJ guarantees that BJ becomes just another carnival game to most. But if Casinos are going to cheat people out of money it will be through slots and high-limit, not the mid-level play that ZK does. The fact that he's logged hundreds of hours in various Vegas institutions without a player's card will attract suspicion.

Quote: prozema

I think this thread should be required reading for anyone who wakes up one day and decides to invest the time and effort to learn to count cards.

I think its more of a cautionary tale of how not to act on a forum when trying to make it as an AP. He could be a very skilled, smart, honest person, but alienating just about everyone in the community is a very bad idea.


If you are a conspiracy theorist by nature, you might want to avoid AP.
I'm not suggesting people should always assume everything is on the up and up and there zero possibility of cheating, just don't let the idea that casinos are cheating you creep so far into your head that it makes you go crazy.

Write what you want, but don't post it for 12 hours. After that, if it still makes sense for you to post what you felt, share it with the world to read for all time.

Quote: speedycrap

Oh no!!!! No drama for 7 days!!!! ZenKing is ZenKing is Zen King. I love this thread because I can fish out a lot of useful info.

Hopefully we will get an update tomorrow.

Quote: AxelWolf

I think its more of a cautionary tale of how not to act on a forum when trying to make it as an AP. He could be a very skilled, smart, honest person, but alienating just about everyone in the community is a very bad idea.


If you are a conspiracy theorist by nature, you might want to avoid AP.
I'm not suggesting people should always assume everything is on the up and up and there zero possibility of cheating, just don't let the idea that casinos are cheating you creep so far into your head that it makes you go crazy.

Unfortunately there are many people who use the cheat card as an excuse for losing, No scratch that ... unfortunately should actually read fortunately, as any excuse they come up with to stop doing something ( gambling) is actually a good thing. I must remind myself in future to wholeheartedly agree with the next person that starts to complain to me how the game is rigged and we are being cheated. Thus I will actually help that person to not come back, and I will not have to participate in engaging with similar repetitive dialogue. Love the movie ground hog day, just over listening to verbal loops of cheating etc .
Thanks
Kind regards. Merry Christmas season.

Quote: prozema

Hopefully we will get an update tomorrow.

I hope the young man moves on with grace, may we also gracefully move forward as well.
Kind regards
Enjoy Christmas season.

Quote: beachmonkey

I hope the young man moves on with grace

Who's she?

Funny thing is, if he was calm, polite and humble he probably would have been ignored.

By behaving crazy, abrasive and arrogant he got attention which lead to tons of advise the chance to meet and work with people etc.

Seems to work this way on every level.

Quote: Rigondeaux

Funny thing is, if he was calm, polite and humble he probably would have been ignored.

By behaving crazy, abrasive and arrogant he got attention which lead to tons of advise the chance to meet and work with people etc.

Seems to work this way on every level.

I agree with some of that but some of the stuff he says online goes too far over the top( I'm sure he knows this) he needed/needs to find some balance.

To me, its just ZK being ZK doing a little venting and being a bit controversial online, for whatever reason.
Personally, I think I can see through all that crazy online talk, but there are many others who can't, even if they could they wouldn't want to take a chance that he may actually be nuts. So, the chance to work with people(assuming he has some interest in that) gets diminished.

Everyone wants to see and meet the freaks at the circus sideshow, they may even invite them to the party, but not too many people are going to invite them to their workplace.

IMO he's not a freak, he's a good guy in my book, but now he has to convince others.

He should come throw axes, maybe that will be an outlet for frustration.

Quote: MrV

Who's she?

Christmas Vacation:

https://youtu.be/0ZcZVugtF6w

Quote: AxelWolf

I agree with some of that but some of the stuff he says online goes too far over the top( I'm sure he knows this) he needed/needs to find some balance.

To me, its just ZK being ZK doing a little venting and being a bit controversial online, for whatever reason.
Personally, I think I can see through all that crazy online talk, but there are many others who can't, even if they could they wouldn't want to take a chance that he may actually be nuts. So, the chance to work with people(assuming he has some interest in that) gets diminished.

Everyone wants to see and meet the freaks at the circus sideshow, they may even invite them to the party, but not too many people are going to invite them to their workplace.

IMO he's not a freak, he's a good guy in my book, but now he has to convince others.

He might be. So might Lavar Ball, or Trump or others. But they got to where they are by being abrasive, controversial, occasionally saying things that were patently wrong and so forth.

ZK was our Lavar Ball. There's probably more good advice in his threads than any other recent threads on here. If he came on here and acted normal, or nicer than normal, he might have gotten one or two generic responses and many of us wouldn't even really know who he was.

Quote: MrV

Who's she?

Youngest sister to Harmony and Merry Christmas.
Kind regards

Quote: beachmonkey

Youngest sister to Harmony and Merry Christmas.
Kind regards

Oh, her.

Yeah, she's amazing.

Quote: AxelWolf

IMO he's not a freak, he's a good guy in my book, but now he has to convince others.

You seem to be a good friend to him, good for you both. He has only to convince himself that he is a good guy, as for the others , myself included , should not be used as the barometer of acceptance , far from it.
Faceless people on a keyboard/ mobile phones displaying various forms of psychosis, so he’s better off believing in him self rather than just talking about it. I’m sure you’re helping him though this as well. Good man.
Kind regards.

I’m puzzled by this concept of being backed off, heat etc. Even before legal casinos in Sydney we had under ground casino ( still do ) you could card count then on various tables from single deck to multi deck etc. They knew you counting and you knew they knew you are counting. Yes sometimes you took lots of cash but we knew to give some back next time round.
I’m not sure if it was because I knew quite a few dealers, floor managers etc ,( only 3million people in Sydney in those days, small city ) if that was the reason one understood table / gangster owned casino etiquette . As per previous post somewhere here I am observant.
Now in the legal casino I run a cage account. I withdraw my daily starting bankroll, I work the tables then at the end of the day I deposit back into my cage account on upstairs gaming floor, as opposed to holding other patrons up on main gaming floor while they wait for the paper work to be completed. As a side note , years ago ,I used to take pleasure in the subtle art of flaunting the fact I was making money, deposit into account etc as other patrons would ask about the delays, smuggly I would say sorry I’m putting money into my account, wank, wank.
So what I’m saying is the casino knows I have money, they know I make money from them, they have cameras they have my account details etc. Just to clarify I do put less cash back into the account, yes I do have a loss day , other times I take my weekly profit out or I simply hold the difference for a few days in chips then put all winnings back in a day or so later. I do engage in conversations with the suits at the upstairs cage re oh I lost a lot to day, I was up heaps but only profit a couple hundred etc. No heat they know what I play see you tomorrow thanks.
I was told by a dealer that our players card has information that the dealer has access to on there screen ie bad personal things, red flag stuff, I’m clean apparently.
I do try and leave a table just after dealer change at the end of my perceived session . So yes I do employ basic camouflage.
I use my cage account interstate also save me from carrying large cash on planes and hotels etc. Full disclosure I’m not a whale nor am I aspiring to be a whale as that not my intention re this post.
I also know the guy/gal playing next to me draw more attention to themselves, they lose/ win way more than I do as I point out to the dealer/ suits nearby.
As per start of this post I don’t understand being backed off or heat that would stop me from earning a living from a one casino horse town. Is it a approach thing. ? Or a personal conduct thing? I know I’m not an overly likeable person ,which sits just fine by me , so it’s not my charisma helping me.
Perhaps as per usual I’m over thinking this and just go with the it’s not my problem re heat etc and go on my merry Christmas way.
Kind regards

Regarding the cheating allegations, James Grosjean's take on it from page 236 of Exhibit CAA:



"Many counters, who enjoy a massive edge (≈1% !), often wonder why they could possibly have an extended losing streak. Variance? Inconceivable! They resolve the cognitive dissonance with the simplest explanation---cheating."