What is the lowest spread you've been backed off for?
April 25th, 2017 at 8:11:10 PM
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Hi folks, I'm curious how small a spread APs have utilized at blackjack, but been backed-off nonetheless.
I have traditionally spread 1-8, but more recently pulled it back to a 1-6 spread in hopes this would draw less heat. To no avail; got backed-off 5 times using this approach on my last Vegas trip. (note, this was all at double deck games).
I'm trying to get a better sense of what spread is tolerable on average (understood this may vary widely based on particular shops' tolerance levels, cover betting, time at the table, green chips vs black chips, etc). Could you fly below the radar with 1-4 spread? Need to whittle it down to a 1-3 spread? Pointless endeavor to find a tolerable spread?
Thanks for sharing your experiences/insights.
I have traditionally spread 1-8, but more recently pulled it back to a 1-6 spread in hopes this would draw less heat. To no avail; got backed-off 5 times using this approach on my last Vegas trip. (note, this was all at double deck games).
I'm trying to get a better sense of what spread is tolerable on average (understood this may vary widely based on particular shops' tolerance levels, cover betting, time at the table, green chips vs black chips, etc). Could you fly below the radar with 1-4 spread? Need to whittle it down to a 1-3 spread? Pointless endeavor to find a tolerable spread?
Thanks for sharing your experiences/insights.
April 25th, 2017 at 8:37:56 PM
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Flat betting;).
I wonder if session length might be more the issue than spread for you though, or just playing the wrong places or a known face.
I would vote for the last pointless to find a tolerant spread but i suppose it depends on your goals of you're trying to get the money or just break even+comps.
Would you consider shoes? Here and there you might be surprised what you can get away with on a shoe at same place that won't tolerate anything on a DD.
Lastly you might consider a less rigid spread on DD, most recreational players seem to bet within a range of around 3 with an occasional potshot big bet, maybe you can design a less rigid ramp that gives them what they're looking for, something like coming off the top with 2 units, spreading up to 4 or down to 1, with an occasional 8+ unit or so bet at TC +5-6 might be less noticeable than betting like a robot 1-6 or 1-8 maxing at +4.
I wonder if session length might be more the issue than spread for you though, or just playing the wrong places or a known face.
I would vote for the last pointless to find a tolerant spread but i suppose it depends on your goals of you're trying to get the money or just break even+comps.
Would you consider shoes? Here and there you might be surprised what you can get away with on a shoe at same place that won't tolerate anything on a DD.
Lastly you might consider a less rigid spread on DD, most recreational players seem to bet within a range of around 3 with an occasional potshot big bet, maybe you can design a less rigid ramp that gives them what they're looking for, something like coming off the top with 2 units, spreading up to 4 or down to 1, with an occasional 8+ unit or so bet at TC +5-6 might be less noticeable than betting like a robot 1-6 or 1-8 maxing at +4.
April 26th, 2017 at 7:01:35 AM
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mcallister gave you some good advice. The best part in my opinion, would you consider show games?
If you're on a trip to LV, and you only go there 1-4 times per year, you should be blasting away. Las Vegas is QUANTITY over quality. If you ramp your spread down, play with cover off the top and cover plays that all cost you EV, you'll reduce your EV hideously to what it could be. Keep the 1-8, or even go to a 1-10 or 1-12 and just blast away looking for the places that tolerate your action. Now, this definitely still depends on your level; $5-$40 is not considered "the same" as $25-$200 nor $100-$800. So your level of play should affect your decision, but overall I'd say try new places and find the ones tolerate a decent spread. When I say this I hope you realize I mean tolerate it for a max bet or two as you should still keep your sessions under 1 hour and move from shop to shop. Vegas is quantity, not quality... and double deck is just more/less asking for heat.
Like mcallister said, you'd be amazed that a 1-6 spread would get you backed off on DD, yet a 1-20 spread doesn't even get blinked at, at the same places with a shoe game. Of course this varies from casino to casino as well, but in general the shoe games are MUCH less sweaty than the DD games in Vegas.
If you're on a trip to LV, and you only go there 1-4 times per year, you should be blasting away. Las Vegas is QUANTITY over quality. If you ramp your spread down, play with cover off the top and cover plays that all cost you EV, you'll reduce your EV hideously to what it could be. Keep the 1-8, or even go to a 1-10 or 1-12 and just blast away looking for the places that tolerate your action. Now, this definitely still depends on your level; $5-$40 is not considered "the same" as $25-$200 nor $100-$800. So your level of play should affect your decision, but overall I'd say try new places and find the ones tolerate a decent spread. When I say this I hope you realize I mean tolerate it for a max bet or two as you should still keep your sessions under 1 hour and move from shop to shop. Vegas is quantity, not quality... and double deck is just more/less asking for heat.
Like mcallister said, you'd be amazed that a 1-6 spread would get you backed off on DD, yet a 1-20 spread doesn't even get blinked at, at the same places with a shoe game. Of course this varies from casino to casino as well, but in general the shoe games are MUCH less sweaty than the DD games in Vegas.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
April 27th, 2017 at 7:42:18 PM
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Thanks for the replies guys. Might be a fool's errand to find a spread casinos will tolerate. I'll have to restrategize around the points you mentioned (session time, shoe games, less rigid ramping).
