Moving out to play

Quote: ZenKinG

But of course there's secret powers that wont let that happen or you will be dead like many previous presidents.

And we officially jump the shark.

Quote: monet0412

I told you... if and when you move to Vegas make sure you have your hand out all day every day. You better learn to ask Hosts and anyone else in power for anything and everything! If your going to try to make a living counting cards only and pay for everything on your own without taking any freebies your gonna have a very difficult time. I don't understand how people are going to choose a dark path like counting cards or gambling for a living and try to live like some upstanding young citizen who pays taxes, tithes to the church, and pays cash for everything. It is like everyone has forgotten that gambling is not an honest trade! I don't care what these APs on the Internet or this site tell you! It is a cesspool no matter how perfumed that air is up on the strip or those 5 thousand dollar leather chairs your sitting in, make no mistake this is a dark path not a path of light no matter how much these AP's preach honesty! Did you see the movie Casino? Do you even know the true story about Lefty and the Ant? Don't you remember that we are supposed to be out here robbing the joint?? Does anyone realize all the blood that has been spilled all over the streets so you can sit in your Black Jack chair trying to count cards all day long in air condition? Do you realize your heading down a path of hustling for a living? Do you realize that Vegas is a town of nothing but Hustlers looking for Edges and Weak Spots? This place is the land of Wolves and you sound more and more like a Lamb! I know your not really going to move here anyway but your posts are getting further and further out there!

I keep telling myself I am done with this thread but you keep sucking me in with these outrageous posts and I just can't help myself to keep taking the bait!

You sure went off the deep end with assumptions about me. You went off and completely assumed that I dont hustle. I dont even know where you got 'honesty' from etc when I never even mentioned any of that. To each their own.

Quote: ZenKinG

The only handout/loan that should be given is to small businesses as they make the world go round. For individuals, all handouts should cease to exist. I'd fix this country in a heartbeat.

As long as "fixing" the United States doesn't require knowing how to fill out a rental application, or understanding that furniture does not appear in your home via the furniture fairy.

I'm starting to doubt that this is a real account. It would be disappointing if this is an elaborate troll.

Quote: ZenKinG

Paying my house with cash, which is the way it should be. If you cant afford something in life, you dont get it or deserve it. No handouts for anyone. The only handout/loan that should be given is to small businesses as they make the world go round. For individuals, all handouts should cease to exist. I'd fix this country in a heartbeat.

Are you really equating handouts with for-profit lending? Do you propose to outlaw the banking industry? You say you have a business degree, but you don't perceive the equivalence between paying $800/month for temporary use of an apartment worth $150k and paying $800/month for temporary use of a bundle of cash worth $150k. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

Quote: monet0412

I told you... if and when you move to Vegas make sure you have your hand out all day every day. You better learn to ask Hosts and anyone else in power for anything and everything! If your going to try to make a living counting cards only and pay for everything on your own without taking any freebies your gonna have a very difficult time. I don't understand how people are going to choose a dark path like counting cards or gambling for a living and try to live like some upstanding young citizen who pays taxes, tithes to the church, and pays cash for everything. It is like everyone has forgotten that gambling is not an honest trade! I don't care what these APs on the Internet or this site tell you! It is a cesspool no matter how perfumed that air is up on the strip or those 5 thousand dollar leather chairs your sitting in, make no mistake this is a dark path not a path of light no matter how much these AP's preach honesty! Did you see the movie Casino? Do you even know the true story about Lefty and the Ant? Don't you remember that we are supposed to be out here robbing the joint?? Does anyone realize all the blood that has been spilled all over the streets so you can sit in your Black Jack chair trying to count cards all day long in air condition? Do you realize your heading down a path of hustling for a living? Do you realize that Vegas is a town of nothing but Hustlers looking for Edges and Weak Spots? This place is the land of Wolves and you sound more and more like a Lamb! I know your not really going to move here anyway but your posts are getting further and further out there!

I keep telling myself I am done with this thread but you keep sucking me in with these outrageous posts and I just can't help myself to keep taking the bait!

That's kinda dark and the opposite of what my experiences have been. Don't get me wrong, there are some fairly shady hustlers and whatever out there. I have dealt with some, especially pre 2005. Knowing who to avoid, who to keep an eye on, who to keep at arms length or who to run from as fast as possible is paramount. I don't think that's something that can be taught, either you know instinctively or you don't. The problem I see often is the extremes. Either they don't trust anyone or they trust everyone.
---------------------------------------------------------------
It seems as if ZK has all the answers and he knows best.
I honestly don't think he wanted any advice, he just wanted to tell his story. I'm certain he knew what the reactions would be.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Whatever happened to the guy thay was going to live in his car and AP for a living in LV?(probably died from the heat in the car) That was a solid idea (-;
----------------------------------------------------------------
"

Quote: monet0412

I keep telling myself I am done with this thread but you keep sucking me in with these outrageous posts and I just can't help myself to keep taking the bait!"

LOL!

Quote: Calder

And we officially jump the shark.

You are about three pages late, but it's kool.

Quote: axel

Whatever happened to the guy thay was going to live in his car and AP for a living in LV?(probably died from the heat in the car) That was a solid idea (-;

I vaguely remember someone saying they were just getting into BJ CC and wanted to figure out a way to have cheap expenses.....so he thought the best idea would be to become a truck-driver.....fantasizing about the grandeur of roaming the country on his free will, going when and where he pleases, to count cards at all the casinos, while doing a truck-driving thing as a side gig type of thing.

There have been worse ideas, though. That's for sure. I'm sure I've had a few myself....I still think pimpin' hos would be a good deal though. I like fury full-length jackets and chains and cigars.

Health care costs?

Only one more year under potential parental coverage.

In the words of The Godfather

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GHNwVdgAAC4

Quote: Dalex64

Health care costs?

Only one more year under potential parental coverage.

Dont need healthcare. Fasting > healthcare

No, but the law says you need insurance, or pay a penalty. Either way it will cost you something. Assuming you are planning on making a good enough living to not have the costs completely subsidized.

Quote: ZenKinG

Paying my house with cash, which is the way it should be.

Yeah this is a good idea. I plan to do this, walking into the owner's house like this:

Nevada is one of the easiest states to get both Medicaid and SNAP.
It's a shame the OP doesn't believe in such things.

Quote: billryan

Nevada is one of the easiest states to get both Medicaid and SNAP.
It's a shame the OP doesn't believe in such things.

And i dont believe in credit either or any handouts for that matter. If everyone including the government had the same mindset as me you can bank on this country being 10x better.

To put it simply, if you want something, earn it. You dont have the money? You dont get it. It's as simple as that folks. Only small businesses would be the exception. For individuals, they can go f*k themselves. No cash? Go work. Pretty straightforward society we would have and no lazy bums collecting welfare checks and milking the system. Get rid of unemployment bullsh*t, get rid of every single handout there is. You dont wanna work? You die. No more mortgages, no more anything.

But let's be realistic, all of the idiots against this love this socialism and the government has no problem turning this country into a socialist country and soon to be communistic country and all of you are perfectly fine with that. Makes me laugh hysterically. The whole credit thing for apartments just makes me laugh even more. The guy with 50k+ in cold hard cash cant get an apartment(haven't tried yet, just making a point), but the guy living off of food stamps with a credit score of 1000 gets treated like a king, not just in apartments, but in everything. Just goes to show how stupid this country has become and you can blame mainstream media and a corrupt government with their own agenda for this. The once most powerful country in the world is now the worlds biggest debtor. Go figure. Yeah you guys got it all right. What is it now? 20 trillion in debt? LOL. Yea we're on the right path.

double post ^

Quote: ZenKinG

And i dont believe in credit either or any handouts for that matter.

In general I agree with you, but the vast majority of people can live in a nicer house by using credit (a mortgage). Since getting a mortgage allowed me into my first house likely 5-7 years faster than if I saved up the needed cash, it was a no-brainer. And the mortgage interest deduction likely saved me money compared to if I just was paying rent. Proper use of credit is definitely an "AP" move as well. I think you are a tad too stubborn about some things. I think if you really want to be a successful Vegas AP you will need to expand your horizons. I just work for a living, but IF I ever decided to do AP, I would try and open as many options as possible.

So OP wants to rent for 1k a month instead of buying a house because you shouldn't use credit to buy a house and only pay cash. It truly is a shame the entire world isn't made up of a bunch of OPs like he wishes.

Not my fault the country is the way it is. I didn't make the rules, I'm just playing the game the way they have it set up. If one day they change the game to the OPs liking... No problem... I can that play game too! Always gonna be exploits or cracks in the system for me to find anyway 😄

Try to remember that nobody or no country stays on top forever! This game is like king of the mountain... The king will fall eventually... Long Live The King!!

Quote: ZenKinG

And i dont believe in credit either or any handouts for that matter. If everyone including the government had the same mindset as me you can bank on this country being 10x better.

To put it simply, if you want something, earn it. You dont have the money? You dont get it. It's as simple as that folks. Only small businesses would be the exception. For individuals, they can go f*k themselves. No cash? Go work. Pretty straightforward society we would have and no lazy bums collecting welfare checks and milking the system. Get rid of unemployment bullsh*t, get rid of every single handout there is. You dont wanna work? You die. No more mortgages, no more anything.

But let's be realistic, all of the idiots against this love this socialism and the government has no problem turning this country into a socialist country and soon to be communistic country and all of you are perfectly fine with that. Makes me laugh hysterically. The whole credit thing for apartments just makes me laugh even more. The guy with 50k+ in cold hard cash cant get an apartment(haven't tried yet, just making a point), but the guy living off of food stamps with a credit score of 1000 gets treated like a king, not just in apartments, but in everything. Just goes to show how stupid this country has become and you can blame mainstream media and a corrupt government with their own agenda for this. The once most powerful country in the world is now the worlds biggest debtor. Go figure. Yeah you guys got it all right. What is it now? 20 trillion in debt? LOL. Yea we're on the right path.

So you let your family pay for your schooling, then decided it was a waste and below you to actually use the degree you were given. Now you want to abandon your family and the freeloading life you've been enjoying. That about right?


Please tell me your degree is in business or economics.

Quote: billryan

So you let your family pay for your schooling, then decided it was a waste and below you to actually use the degree you were given. Now you want to abandon your family and the freeloading life you've been enjoying. That about right?


Please tell me your degree is in business or economics.

If you read the OP, you would know it's a business degree. Besides I was pushed into school anyway and even told them to just send me to community college to save money because I didnt want to go to school, but they forced me anyway, so if anything it's their fault that they paid as I told them I didnt want to go and even tried to save them costs. I would have never gone to school if someone didnt pay for it. Besides, what's worse, wasting 4 years of your life or paying 35k for schooling, which isnt much at all. So either way I came out the wrong side of that.

And no, im not abandoning my family, it's time to move out.

Quote: GWAE

So OP wants to rent for 1k a month instead of buying a house because you shouldn't use credit to buy a house and only pay cash. It truly is a shame the entire world isn't made up of a bunch of OPs like he wishes.

I dont understand your post, tell me where im wrong? Are you implying paying for an apartment is contradictory to what i preach? I dont understand what you're talking about.

Quote: RS

Quote: axel

Whatever happened to the guy thay was going to live in his car and AP for a living in LV?(probably died from the heat in the car) That was a solid idea (-;

I vaguely remember someone saying they were just getting into BJ CC and wanted to figure out a way to have cheap expenses.....so he thought the best idea would be to become a truck-driver.....fantasizing about the grandeur of roaming the country on his free will, going when and where he pleases, to count cards at all the casinos, while doing a truck-driving thing as a side gig type of thing.

There have been worse ideas, though. That's for sure. I'm sure I've had a few myself....I still think pimpin' hos would be a good deal though. I like fury full-length jackets and chains and cigars.

It was a different guy . I can't remember who. I actually don't think the truck driver thing is a bad idea if you have enough time and money. I can see that actually working, especially with a steady income coming in. Traveling you might find some good games and keep your face from getting burnt out. Truck drivers seem to adapt well living on the road without spending much.

Quote: ZenKinG

And i dont believe in credit either or any handouts for that matter. ... To put it simply, if you want something, earn it. You dont have the money? You dont get it. It's as simple as that folks. ... No more mortgages, no more anything. ... The whole credit thing for apartments just makes me laugh even more. The guy with 50k+ in cold hard cash cant get an apartment(haven't tried yet, just making a point), but the guy living off of food stamps with a credit score of 1000 gets treated like a king, not just in apartments, but in everything.

I don't think anyone has ever lived off food stamps and had a credit score of 1000, but let's not let facts get in the way of a good rant.

You apparently really do want to outlaw lending. Without which, of course, not a single casino in Las Vegas would ever have been built. Let's ignore that inconvenient truth as well.

The real point here is that you don't even comprehend your own hypocrisy. If you really want to live a life where you only pay for things with cash and never incur any debt at all, then renting an apartment would be a violation of your strict creed. Renting an apartment is no different than renting money -- you need to be credit-worthy to do either. According to your logic, both are handouts, so in order to avoid handouts you need to buy your living quarters with cash. Start with an RV, work up to a condo, then a house. On your bankroll, and since you need the majority of your cash for revenue generation, you shouldn't be looking at spending more than $10k to start. For example:


https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/rvs/5925852759.html

double post again

Quote: MathExtremist

I don't think anyone has ever lived off food stamps and had a credit score of 1000, but let's not let facts get in the way of a good rant.

You apparently really do want to outlaw lending. Without which, of course, not a single casino in Las Vegas would ever have been built. Let's ignore that inconvenient truth as well.

The real point here is that you don't even comprehend your own hypocrisy. If you really want to live a life where you only pay for things with cash and never incur any debt at all, then renting an apartment would be a violation of your strict creed. Renting an apartment is no different than renting money -- you need to be credit-worthy to do either. According to your logic, both are handouts, so in order to avoid handouts you need to buy your living quarters with cash. Start with an RV, work up to a condo, then a house. On your bankroll, and since you need the majority of your cash for revenue generation, you shouldn't be looking at spending more than $10k to start. For example:


https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/rvs/5925852759.html

You must have mis read my post, which is a common occurrence when people want to argue just to have their own argument. I've said multiple times now, I support businesses who need the money, but NOT individuals. Nice try, but no one can argue against what i preached. Face it, socialism has never worked before and neither has pure democracy. There's not a country with a socialistic economy that didnt commit suicide. You can add democracy to that list as well as democracy is nothing but socialism in disguise which eventually leads to communism, and you can bet america is going down that path.

And no, renting an apartment has nothing to do with renting money. Maybe that's what GWAE was trying to say and calling me a hypocrite. I got cash to pay for what i want and an apartment is considered a 'business' that falls under what i said i would support to giving out loans. And now im using my own money to pay for what i want, in this case supporting myself by living in an apartment, while supporting the economy by supporting the apartment business to the owner. There's no asking for a handout whatsoever and am not asking anyone to pay for any service. Im paying for the service through my own cash. Also just to make this clear, the owners of these apartments would qualify for a loan to build these apartments as it's considered a 'business'.

Quote: monet0412

Not my fault the country is the way it is. I didn't make the rules, I'm just playing the game the way they have it set up. If one day they change the game to the OPs liking... No problem... I can that play game too! Always gonna be exploits or cracks in the system for me to find anyway 😄

Try to remember that nobody or no country stays on top forever! This game is like king of the mountain... The king will fall eventually... Long Live The King!!

And that's the problem, instead of trying to exploit the system, if everyone just started living the 'right' way, everyone would end up being better off in the long run and actually force 'change' with a sustainable and growing economy All these high interest rates, inflation, and now hyperinflation, is all due to the handout socialistic scheme in place. Go ahead and tell me how much a gallon of milk cost back in the early 1900's? So while you think you're exploiting the current economy, you're actually getting backhanded with higher prices without you even knowing about it. Of course our working wages also went up, but not enough to cover the ratio of how it was back then and guess what, it's only going to get worse.

I would fix this country in a heartbeat. The black people in slums would be off their a** so fast working, there wouldnt be time to shoot up neighborhoods and being in gangs, when their welfare check stops coming in. Oh you don't want to work? You dont eat. You dont eat, you die, sucks for you, get off your a** and get a job. I would create a billion jobs by the time i left office with a growing and actual sustainable economy.

Quote: ZenKinG

And that's the problem, instead of trying to exploit the system, if everyone just started living the 'right' way, everyone would end up being better off in the long run and actually force 'change' with a sustainable and growing economy All these high interest rates, inflation, and now hyperinflation, is all due to the handout socialistic scheme in place. Go ahead and tell me how much a gallon of milk cost back in the early 1900's? So while you think you're exploiting the current economy, you're actually getting backhanded with higher prices without you even knowing about it. Of course our working wages also went up, but not enough to cover the ratio of how it was back then and guess what, it's only going to get worse.

I would fix this country in a heartbeat. The black people in slums would be off their a** so fast working, there wouldnt be time to shoot up neighborhoods and being in gangs, when their welfare check stops coming in. Oh you don't want to work? You dont eat. You dont eat, you die, sucks for you, get off your a** and get a job. I would create a billion jobs by the time i left office with a growing and actual sustainable economy.

If you had any F***ing heart at all you'd be out F***in' stealing for a living!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T84RXHhL7sc

Quote: MathExtremist

I don't think anyone has ever lived off food stamps and had a credit score of 1000, but let's not let facts get in the way of a good rant.

You apparently really do want to outlaw lending. Without which, of course, not a single casino in Las Vegas would ever have been built. Let's ignore that inconvenient truth as well.

The real point here is that you don't even comprehend your own hypocrisy. If you really want to live a life where you only pay for things with cash and never incur any debt at all, then renting an apartment would be a violation of your strict creed. Renting an apartment is no different than renting money -- you need to be credit-worthy to do either. According to your logic, both are handouts, so in order to avoid handouts you need to buy your living quarters with cash. Start with an RV, work up to a condo, then a house. On your bankroll, and since you need the majority of your cash for revenue generation, you shouldn't be looking at spending more than $10k to start. For example:


https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/rvs/5925852759.html

I'm not sure what type of generator would run AC all night or what the costs would be. I think You would still have to pay for a monthly spot with hookups, unless you are going to live miserably. That's about $350 a month not including propane costs. Many RV parks won't even allow older RV's to rent long term.

Quote: ZenKinG

And i dont believe in credit either or any handouts for that matter. If everyone including the government had the same mindset as me you can bank on this country being 10x better.

To put it simply, if you want something, earn it. You dont have the money? You dont get it. It's as simple as that folks. Only small businesses would be the exception. For individuals, they can go f*k themselves. No cash? Go work. Pretty straightforward society we would have and no lazy bums collecting welfare checks and milking the system. Get rid of unemployment bullsh*t, get rid of every single handout there is. You dont wanna work? You die. No more mortgages, no more anything.

But let's be realistic, all of the idiots against this love this socialism and the government has no problem turning this country into a socialist country and soon to be communistic country and all of you are perfectly fine with that. Makes me laugh hysterically. The whole credit thing for apartments just makes me laugh even more. The guy with 50k+ in cold hard cash cant get an apartment(haven't tried yet, just making a point), but the guy living off of food stamps with a credit score of 1000 gets treated like a king, not just in apartments, but in everything. Just goes to show how stupid this country has become and you can blame mainstream media and a corrupt government with their own agenda for this. The once most powerful country in the world is now the worlds biggest debtor. Go figure. Yeah you guys got it all right. What is it now? 20 trillion in debt? LOL. Yea we're on the right path.

I'm definitely not one of them hippy liberals who believes in all that socialist nonsense....far from it, actually. However, it's not as simple as you make it seem. I don't like the idea of paying for someone else's medical expenses....or welfare....or any of that other government assisted whatever-the-he'll else it all is. But I also realize there are people who actually do need help and have conditions that prevent them from living a normal life, the ability to have a regular job, etc.

The truly scary thing, is anyone can end up in that situation practically over night. Years ago, a lady at my church (she did all the stuff, singing during service, cooked brownies for bake sales, came to church early and left late to pray with others in need, etc.). Never drank, never did drugs. She was probably early 50's. Anyway, one day she tripped down the stairs or something and broke her leg. Couldn't work for a few months. She got prescribed oxycodone or percoset or whatever the hell she got. Little while later, she became dependant on the stuff and months later...and eventually became full on addicted. Luckily for her, she had a lot of friends at the church and a husband who all helped her through it. Last I heard, which was probably 4-5 years after this all went down, she was still struggling. Not full blown addict anymore, but, going in and out of it, still struggling.

Some idiot could be on his motorcycle going 90, rear end you, he end up dying. Family sues you because your tail lights weren't working or your blinker wasn't on. And you're in financial ruin.


I'm not saying all recipients of welfare or other stuff have had crazy sh*t happen to them or they really are in a position where they need the assistance. I think there's a good chunk that just game the system. But I know some do, and I'd be terrified if I was in that situation and couldn't get help. I don't think the best system is some socialist bullsh** or even that our current system is the best. But I KNOW "f*** you, you gotta work to get money, don't work no money for you, not my fault you got unlucky" is not the right way to go, either.


Credit is an amazing thing. If you don't wanna use credit, then don't. But a few years down the road when you have a $300k bankroll, looking to buy a house and have a car that needs to be replaced, you might have different thoughts -- you can spend $200k of your $300k to get the stuff right now.....or you can spend $15-20k right now, get the stuff now, and pay off a loan over the next 5/10/15 years, allowing you to keep at least $250k+ in your bankroll. And before you accuse me of something, I've never taken out a loan. But I might soon for a house (even though I have the money to buy it with cash outright). But that's still a little ways off.

Quote: ZenKinG

You must have mis read my post, which is a common occurrence when people want to argue just to have their own argument. I've said multiple times now, I support businesses who need the money, but NOT individuals.

I didn't misread your post, I quoted you. Legally, corporations and people are equivalently able to enter into lending contracts. You can't outlaw loans to individuals without also outlawing loans to corporations, or it's a trivial matter to self-incorporate (as I did) and work around your policy.

Quote:

Face it, socialism has never worked before and neither has pure democracy. There's not a country with a socialistic economy that didnt commit suicide. You can add democracy to that list as well as democracy is nothing but socialism in disguise which eventually leads to communism, and you can bet america is going down that path.

If you think lending has anything to do with socialism, you have no grasp of the history of economics. Lending was a common occurrence even in biblical times, evidenced by the numerous verses in both the New and Old Testaments that deal with it.

Quote:

And no, renting an apartment has nothing to do with renting money. Maybe that's what GWAE was trying to say and calling me a hypocrite. I got cash to pay for what i want and an apartment is considered a 'business' that falls under what i said i would support to giving out loans. And now im using my own money to pay for what i want, in this case supporting myself by living in an apartment, while supporting the economy by supporting the apartment business to the owner. There's no asking for a handout whatsoever and am not asking anyone to pay for any service. Im paying for the service through my own cash. Also just to make this clear, the owners of these apartments would qualify for a loan to build these apartments as it's considered a 'business'.

You've got it backwards. You're not loaning money to a business. The owner of that apartment is making a loan to you -- an individual -- of his real property in exchange for a monthly fee. That's what an apartment rental is: you're not buying the apartment, you're just paying a fee to use it temporarily. Are you okay with him loaning the apartment to you in exchange for a periodic fee? If so, why is that different than the owner of $100,000 lending that sum to you in exchange for a monthly fee? Because that's precisely what an interest-only loan is. You don't own the $100,000, you're just paying a fee to use it temporarily. So why aren't you okay with someone loaning $100,000 to you in exchange for a periodic fee?

Explain a plausible distinction. Or just wake up and realize that for-profit lending of assets -- whatever those assets are -- is a perfectly legitimate way to make money in today's economy.

Quote: AxelWolf

It was a different guy . I can't remember who. I actually don't think the truck driver thing is a bad idea if you have enough time and money. I can see that actually working, especially with a steady income coming in. Traveling you might find some good games and keep your face from getting burnt out. Truck drivers seem to adapt well living on the road without spending much.

I just can't imagine it being as great as that guy was thinking. I'd think it'd be more like driving 8-12 hours a day then being stuck in the middle of texas. Can't drive 3 fewer hours or 3 extra hours to get to the casino because of truck driving laws or regulations. And if you're on the fastest route to your destination (they got GPS's so you can't really veer much off the path I think?), probably not gonna come upon all that many great casinos. Maybe if you're gonna be a full time trucker and play BJ a few hours a week it'd work.....but that's a far fetch from what that guy was envisioning, I reckon.

Quote: RS

Credit is an amazing thing. If you don't wanna use credit, then don't. But a few years down the road when you have a $300k bankroll, looking to buy a house and have a car that needs to be replaced, you might have different thoughts -- you can spend $200k of your $300k to get the stuff right now.....or you can spend $15-20k right now, get the stuff now, and pay off a loan over the next 5/10/15 years, allowing you to keep at least $250k+ in your bankroll.

...and experience the leverage that comes from investing $20k but controlling a $200k asset. If that appreciates 10%, you've made 100% on your investment. If the OP doesn't understand leverage and ROI, I don't hold much hope for him becoming a successful AP.

Quote:

And before you accuse me of something, I've never taken out a loan. But I might soon for a house (even though I have the money to buy it with cash outright). But that's still a little ways off.

If you've got the funds for a downpayment and the ability to buy, now may be the best time you'll have for a while. Interest rates are going to get bumped three more times in 2017 (according to Yellin). I got in this summer at less than 4%. According to bankrate.com, the 30-year rate was 4.02% last week and 4.17% now, which is a huge jump. And don't forget, mortgage interest is tax-deductible. According to Zillow, the median Las Vegas home is $205k. 20% down is $41k for a loan of $164k. Even at 4.5%, that's P&I of $831. With taxes and insurance maybe another $300-500/month, so if you're paying $1400/month rent, it may be cheaper for you to buy.

But for Vegas specifically, I heard an Uber driver tell me about a building glut in the valley right now. Something about tens of thousands of units worth of oversupply. That could depress pricing and/or asset appreciation. If you're just keeping the majority of your bankroll in cash, it might be worth talking to a realtor about your options. If the rate you'd pay on a mortgage and/or HELOC are lower than the appreciation you'd have on the property, you'd be APing the housing market...

Quote: RS

I'm definitely not one of them hippy liberals who believes in all that socialist nonsense....far from it, actually. However, it's not as simple as you make it seem. I don't like the idea of paying for someone else's medical expenses....or welfare....or any of that other government assisted whatever-the-he'll else it all is. But I also realize there are people who actually do need help and have conditions that prevent them from living a normal life, the ability to have a regular job, etc.

The truly scary thing, is anyone can end up in that situation practically over night. Years ago, a lady at my church (she did all the stuff, singing during service, cooked brownies for bake sales, came to church early and left late to pray with others in need, etc.). Never drank, never did drugs. She was probably early 50's. Anyway, one day she tripped down the stairs or something and broke her leg. Couldn't work for a few months. She got prescribed oxycodone or percoset or whatever the hell she got. Little while later, she became dependant on the stuff and months later...and eventually became full on addicted. Luckily for her, she had a lot of friends at the church and a husband who all helped her through it. Last I heard, which was probably 4-5 years after this all went down, she was still struggling. Not full blown addict anymore, but, going in and out of it, still struggling.

Some idiot could be on his motorcycle going 90, rear end you, he end up dying. Family sues you because your tail lights weren't working or your blinker wasn't on. And you're in financial ruin.


I'm not saying all recipients of welfare or other stuff have had crazy sh*t happen to them or they really are in a position where they need the assistance. I think there's a good chunk that just game the system. But I know some do, and I'd be terrified if I was in that situation and couldn't get help. I don't think the best system is some socialist bullsh** or even that our current system is the best. But I KNOW "f*** you, you gotta work to get money, don't work no money for you, not my fault you got unlucky" is not the right way to go, either.


Credit is an amazing thing. If you don't wanna use credit, then don't. But a few years down the road when you have a $300k bankroll, looking to buy a house and have a car that needs to be replaced, you might have different thoughts -- you can spend $200k of your $300k to get the stuff right now.....or you can spend $15-20k right now, get the stuff now, and pay off a loan over the next 5/10/15 years, allowing you to keep at least $250k+ in your bankroll. And before you accuse me of something, I've never taken out a loan. But I might soon for a house (even though I have the money to buy it with cash outright). But that's still a little ways off.

First off, way to throw out some bizarre scenarios. Secondly in each of those scenarios it's their fault. She should've never taken drugs to begin with at least not drugs with that type of strength. Oxycodone for a broken leg? LOL. Dont get me started on pharmaceutical companies and doctors. Nothing but corrupt salesmen and doctors working together to prescribe you either drugs you dont need or 'more' than you need just to get the extra commission.

Secondly, the motorcycle guy wont be able to sue you if he rear ended you, since it's his fault, regardless if he died. So i dont know how you lose that lawsuit and why a family would try to sue when it's clear hes the one that rear ended you. I guess you could've gave an example where i unluckily kill someone god forbid by accident, but that's completely off topic and has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Having insurance, you're still paying for it, and not getting a handout, so you will be covered.

Face it my way is the best way and only way for a country to operate. It isn't perfect but it's close. And it's as perfect as it can get.

Quote: MathExtremist

I didn't misread your post, I quoted you. Legally, corporations and people are equivalently able to enter into lending contracts. You can't outlaw loans to individuals without also outlawing loans to corporations, or it's a trivial matter to self-incorporate (as I did) and work around your policy.

If you think lending has anything to do with socialism, you have no grasp of the history of economics. Lending was a common occurrence even in biblical times, evidenced by the numerous verses in both the New and Old Testaments that deal with it.

You've got it backwards. You're not loaning money to a business. The owner of that apartment is making a loan to you -- an individual -- of his real property in exchange for a monthly fee. That's what an apartment rental is: you're not buying the apartment, you're just paying a fee to use it temporarily. Are you okay with him loaning the apartment to you in exchange for a periodic fee? If so, why is that different than the owner of $100,000 lending that sum to you in exchange for a monthly fee? Because that's precisely what an interest-only loan is. You don't own the $100,000, you're just paying a fee to use it temporarily. So why aren't you okay with someone loaning $100,000 to you in exchange for a periodic fee?

Explain a plausible distinction. Or just wake up and realize that for-profit lending of assets -- whatever those assets are -- is a perfectly legitimate way to make money in today's economy.

You're just clearly not understanding it. The owner of the apartment entered that business of loaning it out to me because he sees it as profitable, thats HIS choice, has nothing to do with me. If he doesnt like loaning it out, then he could do other things, but he chose that as HIS business. Now I come in there and want to support his 'business' by leasing out an apartment. This is apples to oranges to what i was originally talking about. Same thing with insurance plans, etc, im not against any of that as long as YOU pay for it without any handouts from anyone.

Once again face it, my economic viewpoint is the only way a country should be run, plain and simple.

Quote: SOOPOO

In general I agree with you, but the vast majority of people can live in a nicer house by using credit (a mortgage). Since getting a mortgage allowed me into my first house likely 5-7 years faster than if I saved up the needed cash, it was a no-brainer. And the mortgage interest deduction likely saved me money compared to if I just was paying rent. Proper use of credit is definitely an "AP" move as well. I think you are a tad too stubborn about some things. I think if you really want to be a successful Vegas AP you will need to expand your horizons. I just work for a living, but IF I ever decided to do AP, I would try and open as many options as possible.

That sucks for them. You want a nicer house, work for it until you can buy one. If it takes you another 5-7 years, too bad, go work harder. Where is all this entitlement coming from? No one should be entitled to anything. Entitlement has brought this country into 20 trillion in debt and doomed for another great depression. The printing press can only print so much. One day we all wake up and China will say FU** YOU and then what? Hope you got your gold and silver ready or some type of physical money and not some digital numbers in your bank account or paper in your wallet.

Quote: ZenKinG

You're just clearly not understanding it. The owner of the apartment entered that business of loaning it out to me because he sees it as profitable, thats HIS choice, has nothing to do with me. If he doesnt like loaning it out, then he could do other things, but he chose that as HIS business. Now I come in there and want to support his 'business' by leasing out an apartment.

So why can't I support a bank who entered the business of loaning its money out to me because it sees it as profitable? If I want to support a bank's 'business' by leasing out (a.k.a. "borrowing") $100,000, why would you prohibit that?

Quote: MathExtremist

...and experience the leverage that comes from investing $20k but controlling a $200k asset. If that appreciates 10%, you've made 100% on your investment. If the OP doesn't understand leverage and ROI, I don't hold much hope for him becoming a successful AP.

If you've got the funds for a downpayment and the ability to buy, now may be the best time you'll have for a while. Interest rates are going to get bumped three more times in 2017 (according to Yellin). I got in this summer at less than 4%. According to bankrate.com, the 30-year rate was 4.02% last week and 4.17% now, which is a huge jump. And don't forget, mortgage interest is tax-deductible. According to Zillow, the median Las Vegas home is $205k. 20% down is $41k for a loan of $164k. Even at 4.5%, that's P&I of $831. With taxes and insurance maybe another $300-500/month, so if you're paying $1400/month rent, it may be cheaper for you to buy.

But for Vegas specifically, I heard an Uber driver tell me about a building glut in the valley right now. Something about tens of thousands of units worth of oversupply. That could depress pricing and/or asset appreciation. If you're just keeping the majority of your bankroll in cash, it might be worth talking to a realtor about your options. If the rate you'd pay on a mortgage and/or HELOC are lower than the appreciation you'd have on the property, you'd be APing the housing market...

So you're happy donating all that money in mortgage interest? Wow. Im going to be saving tons of money buying in cash. Have fun paying all that interest. Another benefit of accepting no handouts.

Quote: MathExtremist

So why can't I support a bank who entered the business of loaning its money out to me because it sees it as profitable? If I want to support a bank's 'business' by leasing out (a.k.a. "borrowing") $100,000, why would you prohibit that?

Because YOU dont have any money. Actually thanks for reminding me, i would outlaw all mortgage companies and interest rate companies. So while i will support small businesses, anyone in the business of loaning out money at percentages rates, would be cut off. In the case of apartments, as i already have mentioned it's completely different as the renter is using his own money that he earned and worked for and not accepting no type of loan to lease the apartment. The owner on the other hand if he needs money to build an apartment, it would be ok as long as he is not LIVING in it and is purely in the business of buying and selling.

My only problem is when an individual is trying to pay for something with funds he doesnt have. Plain and simple.

Quote: ZenKinG

Because YOU dont have any money.

Of course I do. If I have the same $50,000 amount in my pocket that you have in yours, and you want to use yours to pay $1000/month in rent on an apartment, and I want to use mine to pay $1000/month in interest on a loan, what is the difference?

Quote: MathExtremist

Of course I do. If I have the same $50,000 amount in my pocket that you have in yours, and you want to use yours to pay $1000/month in rent on an apartment, and I want to use mine to pay $1000/month in interest on a loan, what is the difference?

I was talking about the example you gave, it's obvious you have money and definitely more than I do, at least for now. The problem and difference is you're destroying the economy and im not. You're contributing to inflation, hyperinflation, rising interest rates, all of that nonsense that could be prevented. If everyone starts adopting my mindset, it will all benefit us in the long run and our children will thank us for it and generations to come. Stop asking for a handout, make these mortgage companies cease to exist and dry them out completely. Take all your money out of these banks as well and convert your paper money into physical money. Get rid of all this bullshit digital currency and paper fiat.

Quote: ZenKinG

First off, way to throw out some bizarre scenarios. Secondly in each of those scenarios it's their fault. She should've never taken drugs to begin with at least not drugs with that type of strength. Oxycodone for a broken leg? LOL. Dont get me started on pharmaceutical companies and doctors. Nothing but corrupt salesmen and doctors working together to prescribe you either drugs you dont need or 'more' than you need just to get the extra commission.

Secondly, the motorcycle guy wont be able to sue you if he rear ended you, since it's his fault, regardless if he died. So i dont know how you lose that lawsuit and why a family would try to sue when it's clear hes the one that rear ended you. I guess you could've gave an example where i unluckily kill someone god forbid by accident, but that's completely off topic and has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Having insurance, you're still paying for it, and not getting a handout, so you will be covered.

Face it my way is the best way and only way for a country to operate. It isn't perfect but it's close. And it's as perfect as it can get.

Insurance will cover the car. Not sure if they'll cover for you being sued. What's it matter if it's your fault or not? It matters if you lose the case. And it would be your fault (arguably) if your tail lights were out....whether they really were or weren't. Or perhaps you had a beer an hour or 2 ago, driving home, some maniac jumps in front of your card....now you're on the line for DUI and murder or manslaughter.

My point was to throw out bizarre situations....because they can happen to anyone at anytime.

Who knows, maybe one day someone recognizes you, you're followed home, robbed, and you lost your BR. Even IF the guy gets caught, you're never seeing that money again.

You're right, you're right -- that would NEVER happen to you. You'd be vigilant and watch out for people. You'd never accidentally run someone over or get addicted to drugs or whatever else may happen. Keep believing that. Because nothing ever unfair happens and anything bad that happens to someone is that person's fault.


And I have no idea why you think loans are handouts. That's a pretty funny conclusion to come up with. Perhaps all that fasting helped you come up with that conclusion.

I'm still waiting to make it big in the penny stocks game, I figure if I fast 3 days per week it'll help me make better decisions. Do you have any advice on the subject?

Quote: ZenKinG

I was talking about the example you gave, it's obvious you have money and definitely more than I do, at least for now. The problem and difference is you're destroying the economy and im not. You're contributing to inflation, hyperinflation, rising interest rates, all of that nonsense that could be prevented. If everyone starts adopting my mindset, it will all benefit us in the long run and our children will thank us for it and generations to come. Stop asking for a handout, make these mortgage companies cease to exist and dry them out completely. Take all your money out of these banks as well and convert your paper money into physical money. Get rid of all this bullshit digital currency and paper fiat.

This is the best thing I've read today. I knew I came here for a reason!

Quote: RS

Insurance will cover the car. Not sure if they'll cover for you being sued. What's it matter if it's your fault or not? It matters if you lose the case. And it would be your fault (arguably) if your tail lights were out....whether they really were or weren't. Or perhaps you had a beer an hour or 2 ago, driving home, some maniac jumps in front of your card....now you're on the line for DUI and murder or manslaughter.

My point was to throw out bizarre situations....because they can happen to anyone at anytime.

Who knows, maybe one day someone recognizes you, you're followed home, robbed, and you lost your BR. Even IF the guy gets caught, you're never seeing that money again.

You're right, you're right -- that would NEVER happen to you. You'd be vigilant and watch out for people. You'd never accidentally run someone over or get addicted to drugs or whatever else may happen. Keep believing that. Because nothing ever unfair happens and anything bad that happens to someone is that person's fault.


And I have no idea why you think loans are handouts. That's a pretty funny conclusion to come up with. Perhaps all that fasting helped you come up with that conclusion.

I'm still waiting to make it big in the penny stocks game, I figure if I fast 3 days per week it'll help me make better decisions. Do you have any advice on the subject?

Once again someone twists my words and makes assumptions just to make an argument. I never said it wouldnt happen to me. Believe me, i try to prepare myself for the worst scenarios as im not the luckiest of people. If you hurt someone or even worse kill someone well that's a different topic, thats a debate on if insurance will cover you or not and is completely different than what we were talking about.

Yes, loans are handouts, you dont have money, so you need help to pay for something. That needs to be abolished. The only time a loan should be given is for a business venture and you then must prove all money is going towards that business. Of course with anything there will always be loopholes, but it will be strictly enforced or major penalties. Quite simply i can fix this country in a heartbeat. The thing is, many people have had my beliefs, but the problem is someone with these beliefs will never get elected. The shit is completely rigged and if you're not republican or democrat you never win. I guess you can do what trump did and just jump on one of the major parties. Ron Paul is the closest towards my line of thinking, but of course he will never win and neither will his son Rand.

I now make "Zen is a real person" an underdog.

I kind of hope he is, though. I've been sharing these posts around various camp fires.

Quote: ZenKinG

Once again someone twists my words and makes assumptions just to make an argument. I never said it wouldnt happen to me. Believe me, i try to prepare myself for the worst scenarios as im not the luckiest of people. If you hurt someone or even worse kill someone well that's a different topic, thats a debate on if insurance will cover you or not and is completely different than what we were talking about.

Yes, loans are handouts, you dont have money, so you need help to pay for something. That needs to be abolished. The only time a loan should be given is for a business venture and you then must prove all money is going towards that business. Of course with anything there will always be loopholes, but it will be strictly enforced or major penalties. Quite simply i can fix this country in a heartbeat. The thing is, many people have had my beliefs, but the problem is someone with these beliefs will never get elected. The shit is completely rigged and if you're not republican or democrat you never win. I guess you can do what trump did and just jump on one of the major parties. Ron Paul is the closest towards my line of thinking, but of course he will never win and neither will his son Rand.

What if I have the money to buy something but I want to take a loan out instead of using my money? Who's to say how I use my money or how someone else (lender) uses their money?

Quote: rigindux

I now make "Zen is a real person" an underdog.

I kind of hope he is, though. I've been sharing these posts around various camp fires.

What's the line? I might take it if the line is good enough.

Fwiw, I strongly second the motion for a blog. Think of all the crow we'll all have to eat over the next year!

Also, all of these policy ideas should be implemented. Worst case scenario, they don't work out and everybody in America just moves back home to their parents' large suburban home for a few more years and comes up with a new plan. Maybe we all become day traders, or start record labels.

Quote: RS

What if I have the money to buy something but I want to take a loan out instead of using my money? Who's to say how I use my money or how someone else (lender) uses their money?




What's the line? I might take it if the line is good enough.

I already said and if you actually read my posts which many here dont seem to do, i would abolish all loan and mortage companies for the purpose of individual loans. Businesses, different story. Of course people will try to find loopholes, nothing will be perfect, but there would be severe penalties if caught. But who cares, enough of this theoretical shit, the point is the country is screwed up and im here telling you why and why you're all wrong. And that's it, wont go deeper into this theoretical nonsense, i got some apartment hunting to do.

Person A rents an apartment for $1,000 and saves $1,000 towards paying cash for his house.
In 12 years, he has spent $144,000 on rent and can afford to buy a $144,000 house.

Person B buys a $125,000 house with $1,000 down. Gets a low interest mortgage and puts $2,000 a month into paying it off. He pays off his home in less than six years, continues to save that the same rate and after ten years , owns his home and has $100,000 in the bank

After 12 years, player A has a paid off house but no cash.
Player B has a paid off house and about $150,000, not to mention the extra cash he spent due to incredible tax benefits.
Yep, mortgages suck and should be avoided.

Quote: ZenKinG

I already said and if you actually read my posts which many here dont seem to do, i would abolish all loan and mortage companies for the purpose of individual loans. Businesses, different story. Of course people will try to find loopholes, nothing will be perfect, but there would be severe penalties if caught. But who cares, enough of this theoretical shit, the point is the country is screwed up and im here telling you why and why you're all wrong. And that's it, wont go deeper into this theoretical nonsense, i got some apartment hunting to do.

So under your plan, I would not be able to get a loan/mortgage even though I have the money to buy the house outright?

Oh FFS.

DFTT

Blocking the fool.