Local Blackjack O/U game

Hi!

One of my local clubs run a blackjack o/u 13 6-deck game with special conditions and I am wondering if there is any real value in it. With real value I obviously mean if theres money to be made from it.
The rules are as follow: S17, double 7-11, DAS, aces are allowed to split once the rest an infinite amount, blackjack pays 3:2, if you bet under 13 and get two aces it pays 3:2, dealer wins at 17, 18, 19 push at 20, 21 and BJ.

Spread is only 3.5:1 from min to max bet.

Now this sounds like a bad game obviously. But let's get to the juicy parts. Like ive mentioned it is o/u.
Penetration is 100%. There is 0% heat. You can backcount, max bet all available slots if the count is good without any concern, etc, etc.

Is this game beatable without a ridiciolous strategy like only betting at very good counts?
If so, any math wiz with some percentages on the situation?
Any help is deeply appreciated.

Best regards,
Chris

sorry but what exactly is:

"dealer wins at 17, 18, 19 push at 20, 21 and BJ."

Oh, sorry for that. Dealer wins if we both get 17, 18 and 19.

Quote: ChrisBlack8

Oh, sorry for that. Dealer wins if we both get 17, 18 and 19.

Ummm. Ouch.

Not mathematically useful, I know, but that seems like a large mechanism.

Be interested to see what one of the math guys comes up with, if someone analyzes these rules.

Is the over/under part a sidebet, or is it all part of the base game? It's sort of both as you describe it, and I'm still confused.

If there's a base bj game, can you list the rules of just that, then the rules of the o/u sidebet? If it's all one game, can you describe it step by step? Thanks

Quote: ChrisBlack8

Oh, sorry for that. Dealer wins if we both get 17, 18 and 19.

that must be worth 30% to the house. might as well just hand them the money and save yourself some time.

It's a sidebet!

The rules of the base bj game are: S17, double allowed at 7-11, DAS, aces are allowed to split once the rest an infinite amount, blackjack pays 3:2. And like we have discussed dealer wins at 17, 18, 19 tie and push at 20, 21, BJ tie.

Rules of the o/u sidebet: The amount of the sidebet can't be larger than the base game bet, if you bet under and get dealt two aces it pays 3:2.

1:3.5 spread? What's the max?

It appears they give you nothing but penetration in trade for winning what normally pushes. I think it's a very bad trade-off, ev wise. I would avoid it; I don't think even a strong count can overcome that disadvantage, and 100% penetration can't be taken advantage of with only 3.5:1 min-max. (I'm assuming you mean min $10 max $35, something like that )

I have never seen the o/u pay 3 to 2 for ace ace.Even With 100% penetration I don't know if the over under will make up for the -5.3% for losing pushes on 17,18,19.

Sounds to me like the OP found a church/festival game... I've been to town festivals where they've had similar games with similar rules (minus the over/under side bet)... and similar penetration where they dealt down to the last card, then shuffled the discards and continued playing.

The real question here Chris, is what are the min/max you can bet on the BJ hand, and the min/max you can bet on the side bet?

Quote: Hunterhill

I have never seen the o/u pay 3 to 2 for ace ace.Even With 100% penetration I don't know if the over under will make up for the -5.3% for losing pushes on 17,18,19.

It quite possibly could if you're allowed to bet $5 on the BJ hand but $100 on the side bet (though I'm doubting it).

Quote: beachbumbabs

(I'm assuming you mean min $10 max $35, something like that )

Thats exactly how it runs.

Thanks a lot for the input everyone.

Quote: Romes

The real question here Chris, is what are the min/max you can bet on the BJ hand, and the min/max you can bet on the side bet?

Unfortunately the min/max is 10/35 on the BJ hand and the same on your side bet. The side bet cant be bigger than the bet on your BJ hand.

Quote: ChrisBlack8

...The side bet cant be bigger than the bet on your BJ hand.

Annnnd that should probably do it for the most part.

Main game = 5.3% HE (just from losing 17-19 pushes) + .36% (from regular rules) = 5.66%.

This is pretty much unbeatable... If you ONLY wong'd in at TC +3 and higher betting the max $35, you'd still be losing about $12/hour to the main game. You'd need to find the trigger point to max bet the O/U and wong in at that point, taking your negative losses from the BJ and adding your positive expectation from the O/U side bet. Then compare where your results fall.

The only true AP play here is end game. Track the cards so you know the value of the last few cards and when they're big just max bet the hands and the O/U side bet. That could be quite profitable, and also quite boring to sit around and not play 99% of the hands. Even at a church festival I'd imagine they'd figure out what you're doing by not playing the entire shoe then only betting the last hand or so.

Alright. I'll be better off hitting the bar section like usual then. Thanks for the help though!