Poll

13 votes (54.16%)
11 votes (45.83%)

24 members have voted

Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
September 13th, 2010 at 2:29:21 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

True. And you understand it, and I understand it, and everyone else on this board understands it. So why can't "they" understand it?!: When I double down on a A-8 against a 6, and take a 10 and the dealer pulls a three to make a hand, it's not my fault. If it was reversed, you'd be thanking my a$$.



Mostly because they play by superstition and the seat of the pants.

That in itself is not bad, if you can afford it. But it may bring up unpleasant behaviors, such as blaming other players for the random results of random events.

Superstitions are powerful things. The refusal to pander to superstitions is also powerful. That's where the problem lies. One time in highschool a guy and I nearly came to blows over his refusal to be handed a salt shaker.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
ItsCalledSoccer
ItsCalledSoccer
Joined: Aug 30, 2010
  • Threads: 42
  • Posts: 735
September 13th, 2010 at 2:42:26 PM permalink
"I'm not superstitious. I'm a little stitious, though."

- Michael Scott
BigTip
BigTip
Joined: May 25, 2010
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 67
September 13th, 2010 at 3:47:15 PM permalink
I've been playing more poker now. I don't want to play at quarters to get the good rules, and I can't stand playing at crappy rules for $5 or $10. But I suck it up and still play at the $25 tables sometimes. I always have a good time when I'm playing. A lot of times it is up to me to make the table entertaining. I'll talk service industry lingo to the dealer, talk about insider Vegas stuff, something to draw them out.

I like Spanish 21 too. I played at Casino Royale until they took them out. Then I learned how to play Switch. I usually try and educate the fun people at a table to correct play. They never mind. I'll show them the basic strategy card. Even the dealers have usually not seen a Switch strategy card. I've had dealers want to look at my card multiple times during a session to see if a player did it "correctly".

If there are only butt holes at a Switch table with me I get just as much entertainment out of watching them play incorrectly and getting upset at my "wrong" plays.
soulhunt79
soulhunt79
Joined: Oct 8, 2010
  • Threads: 6
  • Posts: 207
October 11th, 2010 at 11:18:44 PM permalink
I rarely go to local casinos anymore. It helps that there just are none in Texas close to me. When on vacation visiting family I will go if they all want to but I know what to expect. It is certainly a lot more people there hoping for that win rather than the feeling in a lot of Vegas that they are just on vacation and want to enjoy themselves.

$25 tables at a local casino are even worse. Every single person at a local casino at this level is extremely serious. I like chatting with others. The BSing is at least half the entertainment for me.


Vegas is hit or miss. I'm not one to go on $100 tables so I can't speak to those. My last trip I was probably 50/50 in getting a good enjoyable 5/10 table. Probably about the same for $25 tables, maybe slightly better. I've gotten pretty good at picking out the tables I want to play at though. Generally a table with what seems to be 3-4 friends that know each other is going to be what I'm more interested in. A table with 3-4 people and there are chairs between each one probably won't be something I'd like.


Blackjack is pretty easy to switch tables though. Also a nice bonus in Vegas as the next casino is a 5 minute walk down the street. I have yet to have a craps table be so bad that I wasn't having fun. There will always be bad people, I just haven't run into it myself.
fremont4ever
fremont4ever
Joined: Nov 24, 2009
  • Threads: 5
  • Posts: 138
October 12th, 2010 at 3:33:12 AM permalink
Lots of good comments here. My quick additions:

* I play mostly the nickel tables and I've seen all kinds of dealers and players. I mostly tune them out.
* I'm surprised by the number of people who think of BJ as a social game. I play to win, to kill time, and to observe others - in roughly that order. I say very little, because there's rarely anything of value to say.
* I've never played the sucker games because the house edge at almost all of them ranges from bad to ruinous. This matters a lot to me.
* The one exception to the sucker game category is blackjack switch, which I do enjoy more than the base version. I dislike the fact that more and more joints are moving away from the ability to switch to a blackjack, and the game has more swings than I'd like on my bankroll.
* Craps is more fun, more social, and I've had better luck there, so I've been gravitating more and more toward it on my trips.

from mkl654321:

Quote:

Blackjack, as a casino game, has several fundamental flaws. The worst of those is that bets only pay even money (except, of course, for a BJ). This lack of excitement repels the "gamblers" and conversely, attracts the "grinders". Due to casino rule changes (multiple decks dealt halfway through, autoshufflers, 6:5), the game is no longer beatable by the grinders: basic strategy will just ensure a long, slow slide into oblivion. Anther flaw is that the game becomes VERY boring after a while: there are only about half a dozen recurring situations, and pretty soon everything that happens during a session will have already happened several times before.

When I first learned the game, I always thought it was fundamentally unfair that when the player AND the dealer busted, the dealer won. I've since been surprised by how many players said the same thing to me. It DOES seem that if the dealer and the player reach the same outcome, the result should be a push.

One thing any given Vegas casino could do to attract extra BJ business is to deal an "old-style" single deck game with good rules, and since they are so so so so scared of counters, have a low table maximum on those games. I think people would flock to play something like a $1-25 game that was like the single-deck games in the Horseshoe 10-15 years ago. In fact, this idea is so obvious that I think there must be collusion/arm-twisting/arm-breaking among the casinos to make sure this doesn't come to pass (there have been some decent single-deck games popping their heads up recently, but NEVER with low limits--the casinos feel that the public has to PAY for good games).



A single deck game with good rules but low limits would certainly attract low-level grinders. Within a week, that game would be filled with counters and counter wannabes - not the clientele a casino cares to attract, unless it's to bar or destroy them. I also happen to think the bigger bettors SHOULD get the best games - they're risking more, after all, so why shouldn't their potential reward also be bigger?

The rules may seem unfair, but I think of it as the dealer and myself playing two different games with the same deck. He has a natural edge with bust/bust = win. I get 3:2 for blackjacks (those other payouts do not exist in my mind), plus some options that bring me close to even.
jackblack21
jackblack21
Joined: Oct 9, 2010
  • Threads: 5
  • Posts: 31
October 12th, 2010 at 4:15:26 AM permalink
Quote: fremont4ever


* I'm surprised by the number of people who think of BJ as a social game. I play to win, to kill time, and to observe others - in roughly that order. I say very little, because there's rarely anything of value to say.



I agree. Playing blackjack is not that much fun for me. It's like going to work - I'm there to make a little money. One of the Wizard's rules of gambling is "thou shalt expect to lose". Well, I go prepared to lose, but I go intending to win. I never have figured out what is supposed to be entertaining about sitting next to a bunch of strangers (some of them quite strange) in a smokey room with no sunlight and losing money.
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
October 12th, 2010 at 11:50:58 AM permalink
In the last 35 months the following changes have happened in the table games in Nevada (cumulative percentage)
Strip baccarat +18.3%
Strip blackjack -34.0%
Strip other table games -23.3%
Strip slots -20.7%

Non-strip baccarat is fairly minor game
Non strip blackjack -30.6%
Non strip other table games -24.5%
Non strip slots -21.9%

One of the topics of discussion over the past year has been
why has blackjack dropped so much in comparison with other table games.
soulhunt79
soulhunt79
Joined: Oct 8, 2010
  • Threads: 6
  • Posts: 207
October 12th, 2010 at 4:21:37 PM permalink
Quote: fremont4ever

Lots of good comments here. My quick additions:

* I'm surprised by the number of people who think of BJ as a social game. I play to win, to kill time, and to observe others - in roughly that order. I say very little, because there's rarely anything of value to say.
* Craps is more fun, more social, and I've had better luck there, so I've been gravitating more and more toward it on my trips.



I agree that craps is more fun and I'd probably only play that if it wasn't for the extremely wild swings with the way I play. However a BJ game can be just as entertaining. Obviously not all the time, but I've been on plenty of tables where it was clearly the people at the table that kept me there rather than the game.

Two random times that come to mind from my last trip

3 college guys were at a $5 table at Oshea's I think. Even if I didn't say anything, just their commentary alone with the dealer and between themselves was great entertainment for me. I think I stayed at the table for ~2 hours longer than I expected.

At Caesers there were 2 women on a 25 table that just retired. They were on vacation, they knew it and took full advantage of it. They were a blast to BS with while they were there. Only reason I left that table was they left to head to some show.


I will emphasis again that this generally only happens to me in a place like Vegas. 99% of tables I head to in local casinos are somber affairs and everyone is there to hopefully make $20. Craps at local casinos though has had a much different feeling for me although it is much more limited sample size in my experience.
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 65
  • Posts: 3412
October 12th, 2010 at 5:12:20 PM permalink
Quote: fremont4ever


A single deck game with good rules but low limits would certainly attract low-level grinders. Within a week, that game would be filled with counters and counter wannabes - not the clientele a casino cares to attract, unless it's to bar or destroy them. I also happen to think the bigger bettors SHOULD get the best games - they're risking more, after all, so why shouldn't their potential reward also be bigger?



If that game had a low table maximum (like $25), the counters wouldn't bother with it. The old Horseshoe used to have dozens of $2 minimum single-deck games. They were never swarmed by counters because anyone betting more than ten bucks a hand on those table stood out like a sore thumb. No self-respecting counter would shoehorn himself in between Ferd and Thelma and get dealt two hands from a single deck at a full table, especially if he couldn't bet any more then $25 or $50.

As far as the counter wannabes--the casino WANTS them. There's probably no more valuable customer than the person who THINKS he can beat the house.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
DrEntropy
DrEntropy
Joined: Nov 13, 2009
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 199
October 18th, 2010 at 2:59:49 PM permalink
Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

To be honest with myself, I've just had to come to grips with the fact that for me, gaming overall just isn't as exciting as it once was. But then again, I guess everything can get to be a little bit boring if you do it enough. I guess I should count my blessings that, at least, addiction isn't a problem for me.

That said, I do like talking about the games, the theory, how to best play, etc. And I do like going to gaming destinations to walk the properties, eat at the restaurants, see the shows, etc.

But the actual sitting down and playing ... outside of a big win or big loss, or some sort of interesting story, it's almost like having to work on my vacation.



I am basically in the same boat as you... i will often only play the dice for an hour, have a bit of fun, but then look for an excuse to quit. I seem to enjoy walking around and being in the gaming environment more then the actual playing sometimes.
"Mathematical expectation has nothing to do with results." (Sklansky, Theory of Poker).

  • Jump to: