PA regulations

Turns out after reading all the Pennsylvania regulations for the game of blackjack, PA is in for a little surprise.

For those who don't know, here is the backstory to all of this. Im a competent counter and have been counting for many years. I have all the software and use wong halves with close to full indices. I started to finally take it serious this last year after building a nice bankroll through working two jobs and after 500 or so hours I have had good results even though I'm a little bit under EV. With all this being said, there has been these two stores, which i simply cant beat no matter what I do. After consistently losing at Harrahs in Philly and Sands in Bethlehem and asking the pit boss to show me all the cards face up to see if they have an honest game, they all simply refused and said to take it up with gaming if I think they're cheating.

Well it turns out after reading the PA regulations, "UPON REQUEST" a player may ask to see the cards face up after they are put face down and the casino must comply. This also goes for anytime the table empties and the cards are taken out of the shoe and from the discard rack and laid face down on the table. If the first player that gets there asks to see it face up, they MUST comply. This also goes for when they take out the cards from the shuffle machine, you can request an inspection; albeit though it doesnt go into detail on this last regulation regarding if you can see it face up or not when they take it out of the shuffle machine, but nonetheless the other two instances you can request to see it face up. So anyone who is very skeptical like me and who also plays in PA, print out these regulations and give it to the pit boss and TELL them you demand to see all the cards face up and if not you will report them to gaming. Oh also for anyone that repeatedly gets told by dealers and pit bosses that you must cut at least a deck with the cut card, i got a little nice regulation also for you to give them that says they are wrong and only need to cut off AT LEAST 10 CARDS, not one full deck. Here are the regulations. Enjoy.

633a.4. Opening of the table for gaming.
(a) After receiving one or more decks of cards at the table, the dealer shall
inspect the cards for any defects. The floorperson assigned to the table shall
verify the inspection.
(b) After the cards are inspected, the cards shall be spread out face up on the
table for visual inspection by the first player to arrive at the table. The cards shall
be spread in horizontal fan shaped columns by deck according to suit and in
sequence.

633a.5. Shuffle and cut of the cards
(g) If there is no gaming activity at a Blackjack table which is open for gaming,
the cards shall be removed from the dealing shoe and the discard rack and
spread out on the table face down unless a player requests that the cards be spread
face up on the table. After the first player arriving at the table is afforded an
opportunity to visually inspect the cards shall be:
(1) Mixed thoroughly by a washing of the cards, stacked, then shuffled and
cut in accordance with this section, if there is no automated shuffling device in
use.
(2) Stacked and placed into the automated shuffling device to be shuffled,
if an automated shuffling device is in use. The batch of cards already in the
shuffler shall then be removed. Unless a player requests otherwise, the batch of
cards removed from the shuffler does not need to be spread for inspection and
reshuffled prior to being dealt, if the automated card shuffling device stores a
single batch of shuffled cards inside the shuffler in a secure manner.

633a.5. Shuffle and cut of the cards
(d) The player or dealer making the cut shall place the cover card in the stack
at least ten cards from the top or bottom of the stack. Once the cover card has
been inserted, the dealer shall take all cards on top of the cover card and place
them on the bottom of the stack. The dealer shall then insert the cover card in the
stack at a position at least 1/4 of the way in from the bottom of the stack. The
stack of cards shall then be inserted into the dealing shoe for commencement of
play.

Quote: ZenKinG

So anyone who is very skeptical like me and who also plays in PA, print out these regulations and give it to the pit boss and TELL them you demand to see all the cards face up and if not you will report them to gaming

so have you done this?

Quote: odiousgambit

so have you done this?

If your counter, unless you are sane and truly believe you were cheated I wouldn't suggest doing this.

Sounds like a horrible idea to me. What you think you are being cheated and they switched cards. That is laughable at best. Next you are going to tell us that you are counting at a csm.

If you are that worried about it then start the table when they switch the cards because they always show them face up at that point.

Quote: GWAE

Next you are going to tell us that you are counting at a csm.

How hard is it to count a csm, isnt as simple as 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 , 8..... :-p

Quote: ZenKinG

...
also for anyone that repeatedly gets told by dealers and pit bosses that you must cut at least a deck with the cut card, i got a little nice regulation also for you to give them that says they are wrong and only need to cut off AT LEAST 10 CARDS, not one full deck. Here are the regulations. Enjoy......

633a.5. Shuffle and cut of the cards
(d) The player or dealer making the cut shall place the cover card in the stack
at least ten cards from the top or bottom of the stack. Once the cover card has
been inserted, the dealer shall take all cards on top of the cover card and place
them on the bottom of the stack. The dealer shall then insert the cover card in the
stack at a position at least 1/4 of the way in from the bottom of the stack. The
stack of cards shall then be inserted into the dealing shoe for commencement of
play.

IANAL, but have worked with a lot of regulatory language in the past. So this is FWIW.

There's a base regulation from PA gaming that overrides any other rule. Then there's a casino operating manual that must not conflict with it, but can make additional restrictions.

The base reg says at least 10 cards . That's a minimum, but not a maximum; the words "at least" are very important here. The casino can expand that to one deck, 20 cards, any amount they want at their discretion. They can't allow 6 cards, or 8; the reg says at least 10.

So, if you fight them on the cut, you will almost certainly lose, and further out yourself as a nuisance to them, assuming you've started this argument with them before. Not worth it, IMO.

You would have to have 500 hours at each of those stores individually to have any relevance, but you should know that already since you have software and are competent....you could do it in fewer hours, with consistently short decks, but your evidence as stated is that you're losing, not consistently short decks observed.

I don't see an upside here. Even if they were cheating and they get a big fine, you're still not going to be welcome there after that (they will tell the casino who filed a complaint, let's be real.) If you have a funny feeling, just play somewhere else! There's hundreds of casinos with beatable count games in the US.

Being the devil's advocate, just pay someone else to enact this right as you will. If you want them to show the deck, you wouldn't have to be the one to demand it.

I seen full decks spread at harrahs Chester
THEY ARE NOT CCHEATING
ITS ABSURD
I WAS IN A VERY LUCRATIVE PLAY THERE
- clearly you are just running bad

the guy said they spread it for spanish 21 not regular blackjack. Were you playing spanish? Doesnt matter cause im bringing the regulations with me so i can finally get peace of mind im not getting cheated. Im sure im not getting cheated but its absolutely crazy how ive been murdered there ever since they went to 6 deck games. Maybe playing 2 hands against the dealer is what has destroyed me? I know theres a debate on which is better, 2 hands seems to have an edge due to rds per hour even though you're using more cards. You're betting more per round and faster game idk.

Don't know what to tell you.... I promise you it's all in your head

I've never ran will playing two hands.