What is the affect on house edge of the "stand on all 17s" rule?
What is the difference in house edge between a "stand on soft 17" and a "stands on all 17's" table?
I have been told that it decreases the house's edge, but by how much?
-B
I am starting to believe that these are actually the same rule, just worded differently. Can anybody confirm/deny this?
which it is, but the penalty is to you. The term should be "gets" to hit on soft 17.
In Vegas I have seen the following variations:
"dealer stands on soft 17"
"dealer must stand on all 17s"
"dealer stands on all 17's"
"dealer must draw to 16, and stand on all 17's"
Quote: zarlengpI have noticed that a few casinos offer BJ tables where the dealer "stands on all 17's."
What is the difference in house edge between a "stand on soft 17" and a "stands on all 17's" table?
I have been told that it decreases the house's edge, but by how much?
So, there is no difference - it's the same rule.
Quote: zarlengpIn Vegas I have seen the following variations:
"dealer stands on soft 17"
"dealer must stand on all 17s"
"dealer stands on all 17's"
"dealer must draw to 16, and stand on all 17's"
The more variations they write, the more potential to "confuse" the customer can arise, which can lead to them playing a H17 game which the house likes, that's the only reason I can see.
-B
Quote: dmStand on soft 17 means the same as stand on all 17's since everyone stands on hard 17. The alternate unfavorable rule is hit on soft 17. And it is usually stated that the casino "must" hit soft 17 so as to sound like a penalty action -
which it is, but the penalty is to you. The term should be "gets" to hit on soft 17.
Nicely stated! I'm a newbie at BJ. However I've been practicing rigorously BS and counting. Soon I will give it a try at a real casino. I live in Maryland not too far from Charles Town WV. The tables there are H17, with $25 min. My bankroll is 5,000. Can H17 be consistently beaten? Or should I drive an 1 1/2 hour further to one of the PA casinos that all have S17? Your input would be appreciated.
Quote: sang9768Nicely stated! I'm a newbie at BJ. However I've been practicing rigorously BS and counting. Soon I will give it a try at a real casino. I live in Maryland not too far from Charles Town WV. The tables there are H17, with $25 min. My bankroll is 5,000. Can H17 be consistently beaten? Or should I drive an 1 1/2 hour further to one of the PA casinos that all have S17? Your input would be appreciated.
Your bankroll is much, much, much too small to play $25 minimum. If you are counting, you will have to spread at least 1-4, which means that your big bets will be $100. That is 2% of your bankroll, which by the Kelly Criterion, will be too large a percentage, since you are rarely going to have a 2% advantage.
Your bankroll, if you want an acceptable risk of ruin, would permit only a maximum bet of $15. This would depend on the number of decks and the rules of the game you intend to play. If this was a single deck game with double on anything, H17, and other normal rules, you could probably get away with a max bet of $20. If this was a shoe game with H17, you would be up against a starting disadvantage of -0.71%. That means your bankroll gets nibbled at by all those -EV situations at a true count of +1 or less, and the opportunities for +EV big bets come that much less often.
I would only play on a short bankroll like yours if the game was S17, single deck, Vegas strip rules. Otherwise, your edge is just too small to play the H17 game with only 200 units.
This makes little difference to your point.
Quote: thecesspit$100 is in fact 2% of the posters bankroll.
This makes little difference to your point.
Oops. My math is broken. Earlier post amended to correct.
In fact, the lowering of the Kelly bet to 2% means that a 1-4 spread count may be feasible; it's a lot easier to get to +2% than to +2.5%. If this is a shoe game, it would all depend on penetration. If it's, for instance, a six-deck game where they cut off three decks, the game wouldn't be worth playing.
Quote: sang9768Thanks for your input! I've been so busy just memorizing BS and becomming comfortable with counting (KO) i've hadn't spend any time learning the stuff you mentioned. To be honest with you I'm sort of lost with all the lingo. Can you recommend any web sites or books that explains it to a total green horn like myself? Thanks again.
The KO count is a good start. I'm assuming 6 or 8 deck shoes with Vegas strip rules. Before fully committing to KO, I recommend trying Hi Lo which will be more accurate. If you find that converting to the true count is not for you , then by all means stay with KO.
You asked in a previous post if the game can be consistently beaten. To that I say Slow Down! Once you have become proficient ,you should have better than break even results in the long term. Keep in mind that you are not going to make a living at this game and you are going to take your lumps and then some, just like the rest of us.
You'll need a 1-8 spread or more if you can get away with it. One important factor that is often overlooked by new card counters and some not so new is penetration. Always look around and get the best you can. One reason I would drive the hour and a half that you mentioned would be for better pen.
As always, you can find a great deal of information on the Wizard of Odds Website. Now for the other websites, some of which will have books for sale:
Click on Wizard of Odds at the bottom of this page,click links at the bottom of that page, scroll down to Specific Games and click Games Directory.
When you see these sites you'll be like a kid in a candy store.
Quote: mkl654321Your bankroll is much, much, much too small to play $25 minimum. If you are counting, you will have to spread at least 1-4, which means that your big bets will be $100. That is 2% of your bankroll, which by the Kelly Criterion, will be too large a percentage, since you are rarely going to have a 2% advantage.
Your bankroll, if you want an acceptable risk of ruin, would permit only a maximum bet of $15. This would depend on the number of decks and the rules of the game you intend to play. If this was a single deck game with double on anything, H17, and other normal rules, you could probably get away with a max bet of $20. If this was a shoe game with H17, you would be up against a starting disadvantage of -0.71%. That means your bankroll gets nibbled at by all those -EV situations at a true count of +1 or less, and the opportunities for +EV big bets come that much less often.
I would only play on a short bankroll like yours if the game was S17, single deck, Vegas strip rules. Otherwise, your edge is just too small to play the H17 game with only 200 units.
lol I guess I still have a lot to learn. I thought that learning to count and playing BS is all that is needed. Boy was I wrong! I already bought 4 books from the Wizzard's list. Time to hit those books as well as those links. Meanwhile I will steadily increase my bankroll until I feel that I might me ready.
Quote: WizardThe title of this thread should have effect, not affect. Effect is a noun, affect is a verb.
I noticed that too, but I didn't want to say anything :)
But it's impossible to edit the titles of threads, correct?
