Slaughtered in a very good DD game.

The best "low minimum" DD game I know of on the West Coast is about 30 mins of Portland, Oregon. 75% pen, 3:2, H17, No RsA, but DA2, DaS, and Late Surrender.

$15 table. Normally, I play with a 1:5 spread, but decided to tone it down a bit due to bankroll concerns. Played $15:$45 for 3 hours. Lost $550 (36 units). I was literally never up at any moment in the game.

Hit a lot of BJs, but lost many of my BBs and pushed on many 20s. Endless dealer 21s on 4, 5, and 6 card combos.

I use TKO and do it very well, with all of the basic strategy deviations. Never steamed. Never overbet. Just lost and lost and lost.

Left dejected. Larger context: in late 2015/early 2016, I turned $500 into $7k and slowly lost it all back. Clearly, there was insane + variance and then - variance kicked in. My system never changed.

It's hard not to be totally dejected when thinking about this. That session was just the final loss to bring my earnings back to ZERO. Have played the sh*t out of the game though.

p.s. Best moment of the session...two hands in a row, with my BB out:

Me: K-K, Dealer: A-A-9
Me: Q-J, Dealer: A-A-A-8

The cards are there. :)

I'm sure you've had some pretty good sessions, as well. There are days I can't lose, and days I can't catch a break.
Remember, when you do everything right, you only play with a one percent advantage.
As they say- sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you.
My only suggestion would be work on your bankroll so you can spread properly.

Thanks Billryan,

I heard you on that, man. I've been a counter for three years and am basically just at about a net of zero, with the caveat that when I first started, I was a beginner and am now much better. I played in ways two-three years ago that I wouldn't play now, and vice versa.

Not that this makes me feel better or more successful, but I have run the numbers and see the other people I play around. Honestly, with the games I've played and the amount I've played, I think the average ploppy could easily be down 20-30k...or more! Being even is not profitable..but it's better than being in that type of hole.

I'll have to hang it up for the time being. I am going to be moving out of the Bay Area, buying my first home soon, and have plenty of other things to put my money into.

Until I have at least 5-10k to get it going again. I'll be on the sidelines. Womp womp.

Quote: Amlee

The best "low minimum" DD game I know of on the West Coast is about 30 mins of Portland, Oregon. 75% pen, 3:2, H17, No RsA, but DaS and Late Surrender.

$15 table. Normally, I play with a 1:5 spread, but decided to tone it down a bit due to bankroll concerns. Played $15:$45 for 3 hours. Lost $550 (36 units). I was literally never up at any moment in the game.

Hit a lot of BJs, but lost many of my BBs and pushed on many 20s. Endless dealer 21s on 4, 5, and 6 card combos.

I use TKO and do it very well, with all of the basic strategy deviations. Never steamed. Never overbet. Just lost and lost and lost.

Left dejected. Larger context: in late 2015/early 2016, I turned $500 into $7k and slowly lost it all back. Clearly, there was insane + variance and then - variance kicked in. My system never changed.

It's hard not to be totally dejected when thinking about this. That session was just the final loss to bring my earnings back to ZERO. Have played the sh*t out of the game though.

p.s. Best moment of the session...two hands in a row, with my BB out:

Me: K-K, Dealer: A-A-9
Me: Q-J, Dealer: A-A-A-8

The cards are there. :)

Anyone that has played a lot of blackjack can appreciate your account and has been there. Nice to hear you didn't steam or overbet.

I once lost 64 units in 10 minutes if it makes you feel any better (DD, 80% Pen, DAS, DA2, H17, 3:2, $25 min).

I've lost 3 $400 buy ins on a $10 minimum game before the shoe was even half over.

Ibeatyouraces & Greasyjohn,

Thanks for sharing. Makes me realize while counters may be alone at the tables, they aren't actually alone.

Your stories make mine look minor in comparison, but the general sentiment remains: it truly sucks to get hosed like this.

But you wouldn't see me posting if I won't $500 in a shoe, right? Gotta always re-teach myself how to lose. :)

Sometimes the cards love me,
Sometimes the cards love me not...

After 26 years of counting I'm very close to being about 1% ahead. But it doesn't really feel that way. I've heard so many stories of losing sessions and had so many of my own that it doesn't feel like I'm ahead. Only my impeccable record keeping tells the true story.

We all want to catch a rush--get some kinda magic going. But for me, the winning hasn't come that way. More of a long-term grind; just like the books say it will probably be.

But I can say that the biggest winning session I ever had came at the highest betting level I've ever played at. And that feels pretty good.

Just curious Greasyjohn,

What kind of spreads do you play? Do you stick to the "magic" rule of playing games where your bankroll is 100x your max bet?

Max bet $100, Bankroll: $10k, for example.

Quote: Amlee

Just curious Greasyjohn,

What kind of spreads do you play? Do you stick to the "magic" rule of playing games where your bankroll is 100x your max bet?

Max bet $100, Bankroll: $10k, for example.

Yes, and in 89 trips to Vegas I've never had to play with scared money.

I play 1-8 spread in a DD game. That spread can be a little strong so I'm cautious playing above even a 1-4 spread. (Actually, I'm always cautious and aware of the comfort level vibe I get from the pit.) And I never open for 1 unit.

"Scared money." Geez, that's a great way to put it.

1-8...how do you get away with it? Ha. I've done that in Reno on $5:$40 games and no one cares, but couldn't fathom how you pull it off long term, in say, a $25:$200 game. I guess opening at 2-3 units maybe hides it a bit.

Though it looks like you hover more around a 1:4 game, which won't get too many eyeballs on you.

Super cool.

I always play 1-8 spread. I'm just aware of the pit's reaction. 1-4 just doesn't cut it playing DD. I'm more likely to not split 10s or soft double a 19 or 20. And I don't get to "8" all that often. If the count is real high and calls for a max bet I might look up. If a suit is looking through me I might put out 6 units and watch his reaction. I try to look casual. And I don't jump my bets.

I think I read where a 1-4 spread in a DD game was not tolerated at NYNY and SLS.

Yes, in a DD game, especially depending on the penetration, 8 units might happen for a bet or two at the most.

Thanks for all this info, GJ. Really appreciate it.

If I have four units out, and win, I'll let the winnings ride if the count justifies it. In a two- three hour session, it doesn't happen all that much.

I feel for you, Amlee.

A month ago I went out with a gal who just learned to play. (Her son had been teaching her to play and she used penny bets.) We went to the local Indian Casino that has a single table BJ with a $2 min bet, as long as you play the $1 side bet. (It was a 3-card poker type of side bet.) It was her very first time at a casino playing for 'real' money. She didn't know basic strategy at, and I know it cold. Occasionally she'd asked how to play a certain hand and I'd offer the strategic move; if her lost she'd look at me like I didn't know what the hell I was doing.

Guess who won more money? (A rhetorical question.) She started with a $40 bankroll and walked out at the end of the evening with $127--more than tripling her bankroll! I started with $60 and walked out with $43. (Still, playing for 3 hours and losing only $17 is pretty good in my book.) But talk about frustrating. I do the 'right' play and lose and she does the 'wrong' play and wins. I realize that she was just very lucky that night--but she doesn't think that. She thinks she now knows how to play!

Quote: theoriemeister

I feel for you, Amlee.

A month ago I went out with a gal who just learned to play. (Her son had been teaching her to play and she used penny bets.) We went to the local Indian Casino that has a single table BJ with a $2 min bet, as long as you play the $1 side bet. (It was a 3-card poker type of side bet.) It was her very first time at a casino playing for 'real' money. She didn't know basic strategy at, and I know it cold. Occasionally she'd asked how to play a certain hand and I'd offer the strategic move; if her lost she'd look at me like I didn't know what the hell I was doing.

Guess who won more money? (A rhetorical question.) She started with a $40 bankroll and walked out at the end of the evening with $127--more than tripling her bankroll! I started with $60 and walked out with $43. (Still, playing for 3 hours and losing only $17 is pretty good in my book.) But talk about frustrating. I do the 'right' play and lose and she does the 'wrong' play and wins. I realize that she was just very lucky that night--but she doesn't think that. She thinks she now knows how to play!

Have confidence that in the long run, basic strategy players will do better than fly by the seat of their pants players.
Other than that, be happy for your friend.

A bad thing about being a basic strategy player or playing anything at a disadvantage, at least something with low variance (like blackjack)....is that once you get far enough behind, it's essentially impossible to ever get back even/ahead.

Quote: theoriemeister

She thinks she now knows how to play!

That's oh so very common. Very unfortunately for her. honestly that's ok without people like that less casinos would be around.

1-3 spread ain't gonna cut it. It might have saved you money this time around but in the long run it will hurt you.

Quote: RS

A bad thing about being a basic strategy player or playing anything at a disadvantage, at least something with low variance (like blackjack)....is that once you get far enough behind, it's essentially impossible to ever get back even/ahead.

That's why God created slot machines.