To call out or not?

Recent trip, saw this old-timer ... pretended not to be too skilled at bj, always tried to double down for more, gave the dealers a hard time, pretended not to know if to hit or stand, and in general an obnoxious ass. But every play made the right decision, and making count-dependent bs deviations (i.e. ill 18).

So, I thought to myself, 'do i call this old sob out or not?'. Normally i would never do that, but he was so rude to the dealers i almost did ... question: would you have called him out?

mel

We all design and adopt our own style of cover. This was his.
The casino is his adversary. It's also yours. What more is there to say?

I'd consider having a light hearted chat with him away from the table. You might make a great team.
You might even find him useful as cover for your own plays.

yeah, your right. But I grew up poor and have sympathy for the working stiff dealers. Being a jerk to the average joe or jane doesn't sit well for me. I remember when I couldn't get enough to eat and when i worked 80+ a week at minimum wage. cover is cover; abuse is a different thing. guess i still have a soft spot for the working less fortunate.

mel

Quote: melroyalmcbee

Recent trip, saw this old-timer ... pretended not to be too skilled at bj, always tried to double down for more, gave the dealers a hard time, pretended not to know if to hit or stand, and in general an obnoxious ass. But every play made the right decision, and making count-dependent bs deviations (i.e. ill 18).

So, I thought to myself, 'do i call this old sob out or not?'. Normally i would never do that, but he was so rude to the dealers i almost did ... question: would you have called him out?

mel

No eventually the problem will take care of itself no need to rat him out. Just move on to a different table.
It takes a counter to know one so you're bringing attention to yourself.

You may not like his style of counting there may be someone who doesn't like your's or my style. Perhaps you're sitting next to someone with the same views as Dan. Basically everyone should mind there own business.

If you can't contain yourself and its affecting you give him a heads up warning so he has a chance to either leave or chill out.

good point and objectively you are -totally- correct.

i just got mad cause he was a d*ck. i'm totally ok with counting, but he was busting b*lls on a very young dealer. at some point being a nice guy has to matter. it was a bombing run, stayed there but 25 minutes. guess i'm a bit of a crusader.

oh, and fyi the trip was +9300. way on the right side of the mean, but i'll take it.

Try giving him a heads-up lil chat if he's being that much of an ass. But if you plan on outting him (you probably shouldn't)....ya never know what people are capable of. If he's a complete d*ck on the table, well, he's probably not the nicest person in the world and could become violent...and maybe (probably) not in the casino. But I'd hate to get followed home and.....well ya get the rest of the picture. There's some saying about rats die or something like that.

Quote: AxelWolf

You may not like his style of counting there may be someone who doesn't like your's or my style.

I don't think anyone likes YOUR style of counting!

Sadly, a disproportionate amount of AP's you will run across are self absorbed arrogant assholes. Even among a human race that is full of them. Nature of the business.

I won't mention where but there is a guy who for years goes around in a major wheel chair equipped with all kind of gadgets who hole cards? Would anyone call him out at the chance of being wrong-

WON -- Why would you call that guy out?

Its all I can do to add up my own cards and hope I'm making the right Hit/Stand decision.

If I were to notice something seriously wrong, I report it. By that I mean something criminal or suspiciously alarming. I've reported jimmied doors in parking lots, locked animals, etc. Even decades ago when walking to my room thru a parking lot with an unmarked security car, I flashed my room key, unasked, just in case he wondered what three young men were up in the wee hours of the morning.

I've never witnessed anything criminal at a craps table but I've complained about rude behavior: loud talking, calling out numbers instead of letting the Stick call the roll. I make my objection known, once, and that is it. If they let Black Chipper call out numbers after he has rolled the dice ... I cash in and go elsewhere.

A BJ counter? I wouldn't recognize one, but I would no more report him than I would report a female obviously trolling the BJ pit for customers.

It is nice to see well-thought-out answers and experiences in this thread, and not short, critical or sarcastic replies which are often pervasive on these boards.

I would not out the counter because it takes one to know one.

I apologize for my behavior at the tables. Thanks for not outing me.

Don Johnson was outright belligerent at the tables to dealers

I'd move and not say a word.

Quote: Greasyjohn

It is nice to see well-thought-out answers and experiences in this thread, and not short, critical or sarcastic replies which are often pervasive on these boards.

I would not out the counter because it takes one to know one.

Quote: AxelWolf

It takes a counter to know one so you're bringing attention to yourself.

.

Yep...Why bring even more attention to yourself.

If you wanted him to leave just start betting small and eat up all the good count cards, "take the dealers bust cards" Play as slow as possible, light up a stinky cigar, ask him for a loan, claim you have pink eye and the flu

Quote: AxelWolf

Yep...Why bring even more attention to yourself.

If you wanted him to leave just start betting small and eat up all the good count cards, "take the dealers bust cards" Play as slow as possible, light up a stinky cigar, ask him for a loan, claim you have pink eye and the flu

Why not just play a 'smart game'? That guy had all the eyes on him. Shoulda asked him where he was gonna be playin' the next day.

if they're watching him, they might see me at the same table. I have no issue with camo, but when you start abusing other people i get mad . that's simply not acceptable not matter what. the dealer didn't deserve the abuse. and that's coming from someone who's not a fan of the casino.

i wasn't planning on calling over the pit, but simply to let him know that i knew he was making the right play every time. the smart move, which i did, was to let it go. i was just a little steamed on the inside.

Reminds me of a guy I saw at the Mirage years ago. He was playing nickels and spreading to $60. Any time the dealer would show Ace he'd start talking to himself. "Well the last time she had it, so probably doesn't this time. But there ain't many 10s on the table, so yeah I'll take insurance." Same thing with any count dependent plays. But he always made the correct play. After about 90 minutes the pit boss walked over and watched him play several hands. Then, after the dealer busted with something like 4-7-4-8 he asked, "so what's the count". The guy got kind of a puzzled look on his face, then pointed at the dealer's cards and said, "well, 4, 11, 15, . . . she's got 23, right?" The PB chuckled and walked away. He flat bet another 4-5 hands, then looked at his watch and announced his wife was probably drunk by now and left. I'm sure he didn't fool anyone, but his act probably bought him the few minutes he needed to make a graceful exit.

that's funny :)

Quote: Rio481

Reminds me of a guy I saw at the Mirage years ago. He was playing nickels and spreading to $60. Any time the dealer would show Ace he'd start talking to himself. "Well the last time she had it, so probably doesn't this time. But there ain't many 10s on the table, so yeah I'll take insurance." Same thing with any count dependent plays. But he always made the correct play. After about 90 minutes the pit boss walked over and watched him play several hands. Then, after the dealer busted with something like 4-7-4-8 he asked, "so what's the count". The guy got kind of a puzzled look on his face, then pointed at the dealer's cards and said, "well, 4, 11, 15, . . . she's got 23, right?" The PB chuckled and walked away. He flat bet another 4-5 hands, then looked at his watch and announced his wife was probably drunk by now and left. I'm sure he didn't fool anyone, but his act probably bought him the few minutes he needed to make a graceful exit.

Spreading to $60 max at the Mirage, the PB probably didn't care if he was counting and was just messing with the guy. With the kind of rules you can get on the strip at $5 mins, even years ago, that's like a $10/hour game, if that. That's a total SWAG, but he was not a huge threat to the casino's bottom line...

The way I see this issue is as follows: Now I can't say I always practice what I preach but I usually try to resist the knee-jerk urges in situations such as this. As much as it feels good to call people out and put them in their place it all comes down to the whys the whats and the whos. I try to think why do I feel the urge to call this person out? What exactly did they do and who is it hurting? Lastly and most importantly, who will benefit from me calling them out? If the benefit is my own and I think I want to look cool at the person's expense that's the one I try to avoid at all costs. Also, I try to consider that the only shoes I have ever walked in our my own so when it comes to anyone else you never really know why they do the things they do and for what reasons. Classic example of that is the old road rage story when someone flies by you and then cuts right in front of you before zooming away. Your initial instinct is to want to flip them off and send some choice words as they pass you but what if you later you discovered that the person had their young child in the back suffering from some life and death health issue. They don't seem like such a bad person after hearing that. So the bottom line is I try not to call someone out unless there is a really good reason to do so that has nothing to do with my ego. Watching ones own thoughts and not letting the mind take you over every time it wants to is one of the coolest things I learned how to do in recent years. I'm far from perfect at it but I recommend it.

Quote: AcesAndEights

Spreading to $60 max at the Mirage, the PB probably didn't care if he was counting and was just messing with the guy. With the kind of rules you can get on the strip at $5 mins, even years ago, that's like a $10/hour game, if that. That's a total SWAG, but he was not a huge threat to the casino's bottom line...

No, you're absolutely right. I think the PB was just sending the message "OK you've won some decent money, time to move on." I just really liked the guy's cover. If he were playing higher stakes I think his funny, good-natured act might buy him a "heads-up" from the PB before they took action. As opposed to the cover described by the OP . . .

FYI - This was 25+ years ago when you could still play $1 BJ at Frontier and O'Sheas (Mirage had only recently opened). I think the same action would have drawn heat at those places. And $5 with decent rules wasn't hard to find anywhere. IIRC, Stardust (maybe Riviera?) still had a 1D, S17 game at $5. Ah, the good 'ol days . . .