Employees card counting?

I've noticed that many of y'all are employed by the casinos or were.

I was curious how often are dealers skilled at counting while they deal. Do a majority of pit bosses know how to count and frequently do while we play?

Have many of the employee's become card counters. Is it forbidden for employees to play at all.

Maybe this is an old question.

Dealers and floormen can usually play machines at their property, but cannot play table games. Same with bartenders, waitresses, etc. Pit bosses and higher managers cannot play whatsoever on their property.

I believe employees may play tables + machines at another sister property, though.


I've talked to lots of dealers, and they usually say something like, "Of course I know how to use the counting of cards. I usually win when i count the cards, it's so very simple, bet the minimum when count is little, then bet like 50 or 100 when the count is like 20+." In other words, they [generally] have no f***ing idea of what's going on when it comes to card-counting.

I believe floor people generally have an understanding of counting. I'm sure some can and some can't count. I don't think they're counting tables as part of their regular day-to-day work....but if someone is acting like a counter, then they very well may do some counting.


But then again, I've dealt BJ to a player who is quite obviously not card-counting. I go on break, casino shift manager comes to me and says "That guys a card counter at 3rd base on your game" then continued to explain to me how it's difficult to count a 2-deck game but still possible, while counting a 316-card 6-deck game is impossible [yes, "316 cards"!]...and CSM continued to explain to me how card-counting works and those "special plays" or whatever like hitting 13v6 [with a big bet out, of course] is what card-counters do.



Some pit critters are very intelligent....others are so stupid, you may get into trouble by trying to use cover play (ie: hitting 13v6, you would think it'd dispell the idea that you're a card-counter because it's so idiotic...while the floor person sees hitting 13v6 as "only a card counter would do that").

Quote: jjjoooggg

I was curious how often are dealers skilled at counting while they deal. Do a majority of pit bosses know how to count and frequently do while we play?

It depends.

Most of the dealers and floors that I've encountered are clueless.

I can very reasonably expect that at sweaty joints, the floors can tell exactly what's going on.

I have met more poker dealers that can count than I have blackjack dealers that can count.

I encounter them at sister properties (where they're allowed to play), trying to turn their toke envelope into rent, often still in uniform.

I'm a dual rate where I work. I know how to keep the count, but I can't do it while multitasking. Trying to count while being a good, engaging dealer is more than I can manage, and I can hardly keep the count while playing. Even then, I don't know when to increase my bet and by how much.

I think if I really wanted to devote my time and effort to it, I could learn, but I don't find it to be in my interest right now.

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Most of the dealers I've worked with, have enough difficulty with dealing the games properly, let alone adding game protection on top of it. The pit bosses and above have some basic understanding, but usually identify bet variance over standing there and counting down a shoe. They'll usually call Surveillance to handle that part.

Quote: djatc

read my sig

Hey -- I SAID THAT! :D

90% of the casino employees I've met have no clue what card counting is. Some still think it's illegal (PB and dealers alike). Some think it's impossible to count 6 or 8 deck shoes. Some tell me they know how to count and they'll show us and then count wrong (intentionally or not I don't know). You have to remember in the casino industry most PB's get promoted from being dealers. Most floors get promoted from being PB. So the people in charge now days are quite often the dealers/security/etc from many many years ago. These people know of the idea of card counting, but have no idea how to do it.

The closest you'll come, in this 90%, is a PB/Dealer who does know the value of the cards for hi/low, but doesn't have a clue about TC conversion, bet ramping, variance, etc, etc, etc. They just know.. 6, that's +1!

The other 10% are the more educated crowed that are generally found at known sweaty casino establishments. I had a PB at the El Cortez come over and count the discard tray down on their single deck game when I raised my bet from $5 to $20. This is literally the only place I've ever had that happen in my life. As others have pointed out PB's are generally way too busy with other business stuff like clocking average bets, if someone plays BS or not, etc, and doing all of this at 4-6 tables or so. So it's impossible for them to keep count unless they suspect someone and literally just hover the table. Most of the time they'll just call surveillance and request a skills check on a player if they think something is up. Surveillance can slow the tape down, count the deck down and tell if you're counting or not, but even then I doubt they understand all of the other pieces (RoR, unit sizing, variance, standard deviations, etc). This is why I don't get why they're so worried about counters. Of the card counting community itself I'd bet there's only about 5% of REAL COUNTERS actually counting CORRECTLY with a winning game.