Macau Blackjack

Has anyone had recent experience with Blackjack in Macau? I understand the house edges are around 0.09 - 0.16 for the best games but are dealt from a CSM with a min. bet of HK$1000. Even better is a game at the Lisboa which is break even using basic strategy. Any thoughts or comments about this are appreciated as I am trying to plan a trip. Cheers.

Sorry I can't help you with your question, but there is a useful site www.wizardofmacau.com that gives quite a bit of info on the casinos. I actually went there a few years back and tried to visit all the casinos (to collect chips) so had a different perspective on things. Also I suspect there are a new casinos by now.

I did 4 trips last year to Macau to play BJ and Craps.


What are you looking to know?

Edit: If you are reading on wizardofmacau.com that they use discard piles in the csm games that sadly isn't the case anymore. That practice died a while ago.

The purpose of the trip is to visit Hong Kong and Macau as a tourist. I am interested in the Blackjack conditions in Macau as I am a regular basic strategy player but do not expect to win longterm against a CSM even playing against a tiny house edge. I read some information on the Wizard of Macau website and was seeking more up to date information on the best games, minimum limits, comps, what currencies they use, tax on any winnings, recommended accommodation, cost, length of stay, etc. Also any Blackjack win/loss information is useful if you don't mind publishing it. Any info. you can provide is appreciated.

Quote: davethebuilder

The purpose of the trip is to visit Hong Kong and Macau as a tourist. I am interested in the Blackjack conditions in Macau as I am a regular basic strategy player but do not expect to win longterm against a CSM even playing against a tiny house edge. I read some information on the Wizard of Macau website and was seeking more up to date information on the best games, minimum limits, comps, what currencies they use, tax on any winnings, recommended accommodation, cost, length of stay, etc. Also any Blackjack win/loss information is useful if you don't mind publishing it. Any info. you can provide is appreciated.

minimum is HK$300-500 in the luxurious hotels. could find some HK$200 tables in some small and old joints.
rules are pretty much the same as in wizard of macao, i think they are standard across the place, as dictated by the government.
uses HK dollar
no tax
accommodation: anything from HK$1000 to HK$4000 per night, $1500 being comfy and non-luxurious. BUT if you are will to cross the border to China and spend an extra 45-60 mins in travel time, then there are hotels in ZhuHai that would be almost 50% cheaper
US$ 1 = 7.8 HK$

Thanks for the advice as I will be travelling there at the end of the year. Your suggestion about China is something I did not think of...might have to apply for a visa. I have read that the gambling turnover in Macau has fallen substantially due to the Chinese slowdown and also their governments crackdown on corruption. So it might be a good time to have a look around. A few more questions...is English widely spoken and understood and do they allow smoking in the casinos?

no smoking anymore. although you may be able to find a small "smoking room" in some bigger establishments.

english is understood in most of the places.

depending on your length of stay or whether is on company account, the China Hotel option is really something to consider, because hotels in macao, especially the more luxurious ones are getting really expensive, despite the crack down thing.
as every casino have shuttle bus going to the border, and the hotels are are within walking distance after you across the border, the actual travel time may not be that long, but the waiting line for the shuttle bus is long, as there are lots of visitors from China. thats the problem.

I have been to Macau many times.

In my view there is no need to stay in China,
plenty of reasonable or better hotels near the action in Macau.
For example Casa Royale at HK$1500 is excellent value.
Clean, quiet, very close (walking distance) to Sands and the ferry terminal
from where you can get a free bus to any other casino.

The casinos are now smoke free but have dedicated smoking rooms.

I always stayed at Emperor Hotel, not to be confused with New Emperor Hotel. Internet was good and pretty favorable location.

I was there last month and stayed in the Venetian. Paid $175 i.e. a 35% discount. Worth the experience.
Things are changing so fast in Macau. I would wait and book at the last minute.
By end of the year I expect everything will be half price or less.
Comps there are hardly any for mass market. I enquired at the Venetian and it seems if you earn 5 points you get some souvenir, more for a ferry ticket and an absurd amount for a free buffet.
So I did not gamble as there is no Comps.
Previous trip about 5 years ago played some BJ.
You must be very careful, they play European BJ there whereas all the talk here is American BJ. So a different BS table must be used.
LVS actually has HE of 0.15% only and Wynn is slightly higher. Local casino has higher HE.
You can find HK$300 BJ table in the Galaxy and maybe $300-500 in the Venetian in the morning.
By year end who knows what it will be $200 or maybe even $100 which was what I played 5 years ago.

Ok, thanks to everyone for their input, I have a much better idea of what to expect now.

Quote: Deck007

I was there last month and stayed in the Venetian. Paid $175 i.e. a 35% discount. Worth the experience.
Things are changing so fast in Macau. I would wait and book at the last minute.
By end of the year I expect everything will be half price or less.
Comps there are hardly any for mass market. I enquired at the Venetian and it seems if you earn 5 points you get some souvenir, more for a ferry ticket and an absurd amount for a free buffet.
So I did not gamble as there is no Comps.
Previous trip about 5 years ago played some BJ.
You must be very careful, they play European BJ there whereas all the talk here is American BJ. So a different BS table must be used.
LVS actually has HE of 0.15% only and Wynn is slightly higher. Local casino has higher HE.
You can find HK$300 BJ table in the Galaxy and maybe $300-500 in the Venetian in the morning.
By year end who knows what it will be $200 or maybe even $100 which was what I played 5 years ago.

I tried to book the Venetian last Saturday 13/6, they asked for US 375 (HK$3000).
I ended up booking Sheraton, which is a block away, still cost me US 180 (HK$1500)

But to be fair, price on weekdays are about 30-50% cheaper.

Quote: andysif

I tried to book the Venetian last Saturday 13/6, they asked for US 375 (HK$3000).
I ended up booking Sheraton, which is a block away, still cost me US 180 (HK$1500)

But to be fair, price on weekdays are about 30-50% cheaper.

Yes Venetian had a 50% off offer in March. But I was not ready to go then.
Then they had a May Special and this was the offer I took.
Now they are too pricey and not best value.
Sheraton at USD120 and Grand Hyatt at USD165 is best value now.
This is week-day I am talking about. Your rate must be week-end.
Week-end I move on to HK Superstar Virgo Fri and Sat using my star cruise points. Don't actually pay for anything there.

Hi, I am planning to visit macau in August and most likely playing blackjack in Wynn and MGM since their house edge is only 0.09%. However Wynn is fully booked as always and MGM is too pricey. Probably will stay in emperor hotel.

I just wanna know if it is safe to be walking around with cash? I don't really wanna get cash from ATM since the bank conversion rate is always not good.

Quote: heavenstorm

Hi, I am planning to visit macau in August and most likely playing blackjack in Wynn and MGM since their house edge is only 0.09%. However Wynn is fully booked as always and MGM is too pricey. Probably will stay in emperor hotel.

I just wanna know if it is safe to be walking around with cash? I don't really wanna get cash from ATM since the bank conversion rate is always not good.

I would advice to book the best offer from any hotel nearer to departure as prices are now dropping rapidly. Then take the free shuttle hotel service to ferry terminal and then transfer to Wynn shuttle.
I see presently for week-day, Sheraton is at USD128, Grand Hyatt at 210, Holiday Inn Cotai at 135 and Venetian at 215.
I stayed at the Venetian last month at their special of USD175.
Macau is safe.

Quote: Deck007

I would advice to book the best offer from any hotel nearer to departure as prices are now dropping rapidly. Then take the free shuttle hotel service to ferry terminal and then transfer to Wynn shuttle.
I see presently for week-day, Sheraton is at USD128, Grand Hyatt at 210, Holiday Inn Cotai at 135 and Venetian at 215.
I stayed at the Venetian last month at their special of USD175.
Macau is safe.

thanks Deck007 for your recommendation. Is the shuttle service 24h?

Quote: heavenstorm

thanks Deck007 for your recommendation. Is the shuttle service 24h?

I know the ferry runs past midnight. But I don't have exact information on this.
Can always take a taxi back if needs be.

Quote: Deck007

I know the ferry runs past midnight. But I don't have exact information on this.
Can always take a taxi back if needs be.

alright thanks i will check it out

Heavenstorm... it would be interesting to hear how well you do against this game. I understand Macau blackjack is all CSM dealt so I suppose the best approach is perfect basic strategy. You may find the minimum bets are higher than usual since it is closer to a break even game than most in the US and elsewhere.

Quote: heavenstorm

thanks Deck007 for your recommendation. Is the shuttle service 24h?

I can't say for EVERY establishment but my recommendation would be don't count on it

Quote: Deck007

I would advice to book the best offer from any hotel nearer to departure as prices are now dropping rapidly. Then take the free shuttle hotel service to ferry terminal and then transfer to Wynn shuttle.
I see presently for week-day, Sheraton is at USD128, Grand Hyatt at 210, Holiday Inn Cotai at 135 and Venetian at 215.
I stayed at the Venetian last month at their special of USD175.
Macau is safe.

Macau is generally safe.
HOWEVER, and I don't know if this ever happens to foreigners (cause the junkets only speaks marginal English and they don't want trouble), if approach by any non-casino staff (not wearing a uniform) asking you to join membership/club/promotions etc, just ignore them, and they will walk away.

Quote: andysif

Macau is generally safe.
HOWEVER, and I don't know if this ever happens to foreigners (cause the junkets only speaks marginal English and they don't want trouble), if approach by any non-casino staff (not wearing a uniform) asking you to join membership/club/promotions etc, just ignore them, and they will walk away.

normally if there is promotion going on, is it better to apply thru junkets or try to go direct to casino?

Don't stay in Mainland , Zuhai. The immigration terminal there takes forever to get through unless you're entering after midnight. I've waited in that line for 2 hours before after jumping off a bus from Guangzhou. Don't stay in ZUHAI unless you want to waste your time going to and fro.

Macau uses two currency's. HKD and Macau Patacas. Most casinos only take HKD so this makes HKD the official gambling currency. 1 MOP (Pataca) = 0.97 HKD
Most places will let you spend 1 mop and 1 hkd as if they were valued the same. So spend HKD in local places and you'll make out like a BANDIT.

Not sure what your budget is for Hotel Stay but if you want to play as soon as you get out of you're room you're better off at the mega resorts (mgm,wynn,city of dreams, venetian) as these usually have the best house edge. Some cheaper hotel casinos don't even carry Blackjack. I wouldn't stay at any SJM owned properties as their blackjack rules are worse.

I've stayed at a few places,I'll run through some pros and cons real quick. Listed best to worst.

Altira, Is a free standing hotel casino. Best service I've had anywhere in Macau. Best View too. Blackjack is over 1,000 HKD a hand though.

Four Seasons, Is part of the gigantic Venetian complex. It has it's own casino though if you like a more chill vibe. Great service. Best place to play craps by far. 500 hkd min. Blackjack 1,000 HKD min.0 .16 HE


Okura, Is part of the Galaxy complex. Great rooms. Less expensive than Altira and FS. Awesome wave pool and fake beach. Crappy blackjack.Minimums for their blackjack game is 300 hkd. The HE is higher than .16 but can't remember what it is off the top of my head. If you stay here than the Venetian is just a 5 minute free shuttle ride away.

Hard Rock, Is part of the City of Drea ms complex. ALso great rooms. I thought the service was so so. Great to go downstairs and play a .16 HE BJ game though. Can get a minimum for 300 hkd.

Rio, Great budget hotel. Remodeled rooms for about 110 USD. No shuttle service :( So a 7 minute walk is in order to get to the the MGM or WYNN for the .09 BJ Game.

I doubt you'll find the .09 HE for less than 1,000 HKD. But def the .16 HE game for 300 hkd at either the Venetian or COD.

Also remember surrender is played differently. In the US we have Late Surrender. In Macau the dealer will first ask if anyone wants to surrender before any player takes a hit. So make sure you're paying attention.

My recommendation is stay in Hong Kong for some sight seeing and when you're ready take the TurboJet Ferry Service over to Macau. Here's the website.

http://www.turbojet.com.hk/en/routing-sailing-schedule/hong-kong-macau/sailing-schedule-fares.aspx

Also don't get a round trip because you never know if you'll want to spend an extra day just hanging on one of Macau's beaches or getting an extra day of playing in. :) You can ask the concierge at your hotel to get you a return ferry ticket. It'll save some hassle and they'd be glad to do that for you.

Be careful with cabs make sure they start those meters when you get in. If not refuse the ride.

Hotel staff speak the most english. Followed by Casino personnel. You'll be fine with English :)

Oh bring some cash with you unless you want your debit card eaten at one of the foriegn atms. Had it happen. It sucked. China uses 6 digit pin numbers so sometimes the machines aren't programmed for a 4 digit code. Ive had no problems at the ICBC but many times problems at the Bank of China. If you have a problem with the machine, use the two zero trick. So Just add two zeros and then your pin to make 6 digits.

Anyway. Goodluck to you. Hopefully you can do a trip report!

Quote: heavenstorm

normally if there is promotion going on, is it better to apply thru junkets or try to go direct to casino?

normally there would be none going on. LOL
you could get non-negotiable chips from the junket at a discount but I am really not sure whether you can use them at BJ.

Quote: nickolay411

Wow, that is extremely useful information. Thanks, Nickolay!

Macau Hotel Free Shuttle Bus

http://www.citsmacao.com/en/macau-news/macau-hotel-free-shuttle-bus.html

No problem! There are a few things to do outside the casino as well. The ruins of Saint Paul, Senado square, Taipa Village. Hopefully you can spend at least 2 nights there. A full three days stay is probably perfect .

Btw is anyone living in Macau right now?

Now, since I will be visiting HK and Macau during my trip to China next month, this is really important because it has an impact on how much I will be bringing. Are there any places in Macau that still offer $100 minimums at any time of the day? I have read online over the years that people have indeed played on $100 tables but some of those posts could have been several years ago. From the information I have gathered, it seems that the lowest minimum you can realistically expect to find in most places is $200, although tables with better rules tend to have higher limits.

RedJack,

I haven't played at any of the the older casinos further from the center so I wouldn't know. They might have low minimums but you'll have to call and ask if they have blackjack. I know for certain they won't have craps.

I've played City of Dreams Craps at 100 HKD min bet. Their table isn't in good shape and the dealers no roll you quite a lot if both dice don't hit the back wall. But it is 100 HKD during the slow hours so it's hard to complain. They also allow 5X odds across the board and the 4,10 is an automatic buy with no vig up front.. You cannot place a 4,10.

My suggestion is CALL or EMAIL different casinos ahead of time do some research or else you might spend your whole trip running to and from casinos looking for the game you want to play at an acceptable minimum.

cheers. Also do a trip report ;)

I will talk about my Macau "trip"(which most likely won't exceed 12-16 hours) IF I get to play. That is looking increasingly like a big "if" though. I might still talk briefly about what I see in the casinos assuming I have time to enter them after all the sightseeing. What I meant above is that if I know for sure that I will not be able to find a table under $300, then I simply won't bring that much money with me as I would have a budget less than 25% of that I would have to prepare if I were to gamble. Even a $200 game makes me pretty uncomfortable unless the people I will be going with are willing to "invest" i.e. share the cost with me. HKD $200 as of right now is $25 USD and $300 is $38.7. The casinos where I normally play the minimums are usually $10, $8.11, or $4.05. That WOULD be a huge jump.

Quote: RedJack

I will talk about my Macau "trip"(which most likely won't exceed 12-16 hours) IF I get to play. That is looking increasingly like a big "if" though. I might still talk briefly about what I see in the casinos assuming I have time to enter them after all the sightseeing. What I meant above is that if I know for sure that I will not be able to find a table under $300, then I simply won't bring that much money with me as I would have a budget less than 25% of that I would have to prepare if I were to gamble. Even a $200 game makes me pretty uncomfortable unless the people I will be going with are willing to "invest" i.e. share the cost with me. HKD $200 as of right now is $25 USD and $300 is $38.7. The casinos where I normally play the minimums are usually $10, $8.11, or $4.05. That WOULD be a huge jump.

I will say you can forget it.
$200 tables are already hard to find, most of them located in small, out dated casinos owned by SJM.
In the better looking, flashy casinos I will say maybe one or two $300 tables, most are $500 and up.

andysif is right it'll be tough. But with preparation I think you can find what you are looking for.

With the higher mins look at it this way. The game you are playing with correct Basic Strategy is so close to break even it's worth playing.

A house edge game of .09% is at LEAST 4X better than anything you play for 10 bucks. So can we say it's worth at least 4X your ten dollar bet?


And if you get up in a few hands you've already made what would take you hours to make on a 10 dollar table.

andysif, forget what? Finding $100 tables? From your info it sounds like that's the plan!

Nickolay, under normal circumstances in life, I like the glass-1/2-full attitude, but this is gambling we are talking about and whether it's 0.09% or .7%, it IS a negative expectation game and as such, the more you bet you more you'll lose in the long run. It would be nice to hit a winning streak early and run, but it is more probable that you'll end up losing the session, and losing several times more than you would a $5 or $10 game in the U.S. Remember that even as an AP with the edge on your side, there are still wild swings in the short run and you'll encounter times when you lose your entire bankroll if you are underfunded.

To put it in perspective, when you go around North America, it is generally expected that you can play through a whole night with $500 on most tables(assuming you are flat-betting at $10 or playing close to it), or $250 on $5 tables, $750 on $15 tables and so on. In Macau on the other hand, assuming you are in the situation mentioned in this thread where the only game you find available is HKD $500, and you would like to relax and play for 5 hours or so with their CSM (dealing 80 hands per), even with their reduced house edge, your EXPECTATION works out to be: 400 x $500 x 0.09 = $18000 HKD or about $2322 USD as of today. That is only expectation. It's common to be way worse as you have probably experienced. Not a good outlook for low-rollers.

Quote: RedJack

andysif, forget what? Finding $100 tables? From your info it sounds like that's the plan!

Nickolay, under normal circumstances in life, I like the glass-1/2-full attitude, but this is gambling we are talking about and whether it's 0.09% or .7%, it IS a negative expectation game and as such, the more you bet you more you'll lose in the long run. It would be nice to hit a winning streak early and run, but it is more probable that you'll end up losing the session, and losing several times more than you would a $5 or $10 game in the U.S. Remember that even as an AP with the edge on your side, there are still wild swings in the short run and you'll encounter times when you lose your entire bankroll if you are underfunded.

To put it in perspective, when you go around North America, it is generally expected that you can play through a whole night with $500 on most tables(assuming you are flat-betting at $10 or playing close to it), or $250 on $5 tables, $750 on $15 tables and so on. In Macau on the other hand, assuming you are in the situation mentioned in this thread where the only game you find available is HKD $500, and you would like to relax and play for 5 hours or so with their CSM (dealing 80 hands per), even with their reduced house edge, your EXPECTATION works out to be: 400 x $500 x 0.09 = $18000 HKD or about $2322 USD as of today. That is only expectation. It's common to be way worse as you have probably experienced. Not a good outlook for low-rollers.

Hi redjack,

I think there is an error in your calculation or I may be wrong. for every $100 bet in a 0.09 HE game, you stand to lose $0.09. So if you bet $500 a hand, you stand to lose $0.09 x 5 = $0.45 per hand. If you play 400 hands = 400 x $0.45 = $180 HKD. You are expected to lose only $180HKD. Of course if we count standard deviation in, things will be different.

You are absolutely correct. I should have multiplied by .09% or .0009 for house edge rather than 0.09 which would be a whopping 9%, XD.

Having said that, when you have played enough to see variance lead you to utterly ridiculous losses such as the night when I flat-bet $5 and ended up down over $200 after only around a couple hundred hands, at a S17, 6d table with a HE of .47%, you will see why an essential $64.49 USD minimum would seem extremely intimidating to low-rollers and the risk-averse however you put it. Even if you had a slight edge, variance could lead to a loss in the thousands for any given session, let alone when the house has the upper hand.

The best rules is still Wynn and MGM, as stated in wizardofmacau. You can sometimes find $300 min during weekdays $500/1000 at weekends.
Don't ever consider to go to China for staying although it is much cheaper. You will take forever to go through the gates.

I have personally went on a field trip to confirm there are 200 tables on Sunday at casino oceanus and sands, both near the ferry terminal.

Here are two things I would appreciate clarification on regarding BJ in Macau.

1) andysif, did you visit a number of casinos and only found $200 tables in these two or did you just pretty much visit these two or a few of them? This information is actually fairly important because it would affect my decision of how much HKD to exchange for and bring on my trip to HK and Macau. The plan is that, as a low-limit BS recreational player, I would likely only play if there are $200 tables available, which are insanely expensive to play by my standards as it is. If I decide that I would not be able to conveniently find them(even on weekdays) then I won't bring nearly as much cash with me on the trip.

2) what, again, are the rules offered in Macau? Specifically, H17/S17? 3:2? Hole Card/ENHC and what happens to your additional wager if dealer gets BJ if it is ENHC? DA2/9-11? DAS? SP2/3/4? ES/LS available(I heard something about having to surrender before the first player's decision)?

I did see a very low HE of 0.09% being mentioned for certain(albeit expensive) games, what are the specific rules that contribute to this %?

I only visited those 2, BUT Sands is related to Venetian and Oceanus is SJM, so I assume this will be across the board. and if I can find them on Sunday, then I am quite sure you can find them during weekdays.

business is bad. I was even able to find a cab. That was hard a few years back. so i guess they are taking whatever they can now.

As for the rules, I am a little bit shy to say I am just a recreational player. All I notice is S17, surrender except when dealer shows an ace, double on any 2 cards( not sure). I strongly urge you to get confirmation from other players.


and BTW, if you are around, could you please check the Caribbean Stud in Sands. I forgot to copy down the pay table but the Jackpot is like 8.5 mils and its 50 a pop. I figured is about to reach break even point.

For rules, just refer to wizardofmacau. They are all still valid.

I just book Sheraton with a 50% discount.
Galaxy is offering 30% discount but they have to come down some more if they want to fill their extra 2000 rooms now.

rule : S17, DA2, E10, DAS, lose only orig. bet to dlr natural; RSA at only MGM & Wynn.

Quote: Deck007

I just book Sheraton with a 50% discount.
Galaxy is offering 30% discount but they have to come down some more if they want to fill their extra 2000 rooms now.

hell yea. Enjoy the Venetian! No BJ under 300 hKd last time I was there. Could have come down recently though. They also went from two craps table down to one. If your going to play craps last time I was there their min was 500 hkd but it fluctuates. COD always has a lower craps limit though.

Make sure to take advantage of the free shuttles over at the venetian. They'll take you all around the city and over to COD. Not worth the walk if its incredibly hot.

Quote: andysif

normally there would be none going on. LOL
you could get non-negotiable chips from the junket at a discount but I am really not sure whether you can use them at BJ.

no for sure.

the rules of blackjack are almost the same in Macao.
and it is right: big casino: minimum bet: HK: 300,500,800, 1000, 2000. small ones: HKD:200.
for now, i do think best place to play blackjack is Wynn. they newly have quiet separate place for blackjack about 4 tables or so. then easier to ocCupy a sole table.
if not there, every time, i started an empty table, others will join me, which i hated a lot before. i just cannot take that many will take even money BJ vs 10. surrender: 12V7. they felt i was too strange when i hit by A7 v10...

for hotel rooms, ,i like Waldo. last time, for first night, only USD 90 about. but second night, USD120... if you have friends in China, you may ask them to order it here: like ebay: https://www.taobao.com/ it is ok cheaper.
don't try to stay in zhuhai for nights, as others suggested, the queque is 30 minites to 3 hours, also, you need another entry permission.

and if you want to play dragon 7 of ez baccarat, also wynn. it is fast, dealer turns out the card, in MGM, it is the gambler who turns over the card, just slow.

for good show, the No. 1 is: http://www.cityofdreamsmacau.com/

for beautiful Miss pr, the best one is said to also wynn, if you want to develop relation, do pretend to be millionaire.

wynn again..., it is also casino, easy to lost your way.

also there are live sex show in Fortuna. if they continue the business to your time.

for message, famous ones: golden dragon, Ponte 16... i do think visiting foreigners alone cannot manage it well.