No Bust 21st Century Blackjack

I am having the hardest time finding a return for this game. I've used the Wizards blackjack calculator to calculate the house edge for each blackjack game, however with the "No Bust" stipulation, I can imagine it changes the return significantly. For clarification, the "No Bust" rule states that if the player busts with three cards and the dealer also busts, but in a higher amount, the player pushes the wager. If the dealer bust amount equals or is less than the player then the wager loses. Other rules in the game: 6 decks, hits soft 17, double after split, double on any two cards, re-split four times, split aces get one card and can not re-split, surrender, and 6-5 BJ. Can anyone help me with the house edge on this game with the "No Bust" rule or know where I can find more information?

Quote: teamz51

I am having the hardest time finding a return for this game. I've used the Wizards blackjack calculator to calculate the house edge for each blackjack game, however with the "No Bust" stipulation, I can imagine it changes the return significantly. For clarification, the "No Bust" rule states that if the player busts with three cards and the dealer also busts, but in a higher amount, the player pushes the wager. If the dealer bust amount equals or is less than the player then the wager loses. Other rules in the game: 6 decks, hits soft 17, double after split, double on any two cards, re-split four times, split aces get one card and can not re-split, surrender, and 6-5 BJ. Can anyone help me with the house edge on this game with the "No Bust" rule or know where I can find more information?

The infinite-deck model's house edge for the game with these rules is 0.5837%. For comparison, the infinite-deck result for a regular blackjack game with H17, 3:2 blackjacks, 3 splits for non-ace pairs, DAS, and surrender is 0.6294%.

Does player hit on (two card) 12 vs 4, 5 or 6 in basic strategy for the "No Bust" variant? What about 2-card 13 vs 2? 13 vs 3,4,5,6?

Quote: gordonm888

Does player hit on (two card) 12 vs 4, 5 or 6 in basic strategy for the "No Bust" variant? What about 2-card 13 vs 2? 13 vs 3,4,5,6?

The infinite-deck model with the "no bust" rule would have the player hit 2-card 12 vs 2-6 and 2-card 13 vs 2-5. Also, the player should surrender only 16 or 17 vs A and 16 vs 10.

Why don't you look over the shoulder of the corporation and check out their custom basic strategy card or better yet why arnen't you banking against the corp? They'll play the correct strat and you remember or write down those plays. :)

U playing hollywood park?

Isn't the infinite deck model provide a different edge than a standard 6 deck shoe? Is there somewhere that I can check the above house edge or return?

Quote: teamz51

Isn't the infinite deck model provide a different edge than a standard 6 deck shoe? Is there somewhere that I can check the above house edge or return?

The infinite-deck model's house edge for regular blackjack is higher than that for a regular six deck game with the same rules. So, probably your six deck no-bust game would have a house edge lower than 0.5837%. The easiest way to find out the house edge for your game would be to run a simulation.

Wizard of Odds gives a link for the office of the Attorney General of California. California's Bureau of Gaming Control might know the answer to your question.

Chesterdog he is talking about a 6:5 game. This is game does not have a house edge lower than 0.58 it's actually at 1% when you play the correct bs.

If teamz51 revealed which casino he's playing or clarified the specific no bust rules the house edge will fluctuate because the California card rooms have different rules between them.

For instance, HP in LA doesn't play with jokers, a 22 is an automatic lose , To qualify for no bust you can only bust with 3 cards, you must bust at 23 or higher, and your total has to be lower than the dealers. All that for a push. These crappy rules don't do much to lower the high HE of playing a 6:5 game.

Quote: nickolay411

Chesterdog he is talking about a 6:5 game. This is game does not have a house edge lower than 0.58 it's actually at 1% when you play the correct bs.

If teamz51 revealed which casino he's playing or clarified the specific no bust rules the house edge will fluctuate because the California card rooms have different rules between them.

For instance, HP in LA doesn't play with jokers, a 22 is an automatic lose , To qualify for no bust you can only bust with 3 cards, you must bust at 23 or higher, and your total has to be lower than the dealers. All that for a push. These crappy rules don't do much to lower the high HE of playing a 6:5 game.

I found an error in my infinite-deck analysis. Although I knew that the no-bust rule applies to 3-card hands only, I missed that in my calculations. After correcting my mistake, I get a house edge of 0.7449% instead of 0.5837%. (That's for a game paying 6:5 for winning blackjacks, H17, no jokers, re-split non-ace pairs to four hands, DAS, and surrender. However, I don't have 22 as an automatic loser for the player, but if a 3-card player 22 is an automatic loser I get a huge house edge of 1.5232%. What a horrible rule!)

It used to be 22 was okay than they realized it was too much of a give so most if not all places do 22 as an automatic loser.

It really is a bad game but tons of people still play it including my foolish self. :(

The only real profitable move is banking as dealer at a negative count. But It's gotta be low enough to ensure you're not getting screwed on the bank collection, 2 Dollars per every 100 dollar bet.

Oh ChesterDog can you run it one more time with surrender is okay with any card amount? I forgot to mention this rule. You can surrender with 3,4,5 or how many cards you want. It don't think it'll drop it back below 1% but curious.

Thanks!
Nickolay

ChesterDog, know this is an old thread, but did you ever get to run the analysis with surrender on any number of cards prior to busting?

Looks like Bicycle Casino is running this:

H17, no jokers, re-split non-ace pairs to four hands, DAS, and surrender on any cards prior to busting no bust on any 22-25 if less than dealer(push), but are paying natural BJ at 1 to 1.

Assume it is going to be 1.8-1.9% worse than the original 1.5%

Quote: FolliesForever

ChesterDog, know this is an old thread, but did you ever get to run the analysis with surrender on any number of cards prior to busting?

Looks like Bicycle Casino is running this:

H17, no jokers, re-split non-ace pairs to four hands, DAS, and surrender on any cards prior to busting no bust on any 22-25 if less than dealer(push), but are paying natural BJ at 1 to 1.

Assume it is going to be 1.8-1.9% worse than the original 1.5%
link to original post

I assumed that "any" in "no bust on any 22-25 if less than dealer" means that the player can have any number of cards, not just 3, to push on a busted hand.

I also assumed that the player may surrender any hands resulting from splits.

My infinite-deck house edge for this game is only 1.0872% with H17, no jokers, re-split non-ace pairs to four hands, DAS, surrender on any cards prior to busting, no bust on any 22-25 if less than dealer, and natural BJ at 1 to 1.

Yes, the player can have any number of cards when they bust, but still have to busted less than dealer to push, otherwise they lose

Correct that they can surrender any hands resulting from split as long as they have not busted.

Before I delve too much farther and feel like an idiot, DAS=Double after Split? Which yes that is allowed.

“ I found an error in my infinite-deck analysis. Although I knew that the no-bust rule applies to 3-card hands only, I missed that in my calculations. After correcting my mistake, I get a house edge of 0.7449% instead of 0.5837%.”

From that message when you got 0.5836% I assumes that was the rules Bike is using without 6 to 5 but 1 to 1. Which should have an effect of 1.39%.