Poll

5 votes (31.25%)
5 votes (31.25%)
No votes (0%)
6 votes (37.5%)

16 members have voted

Wizard
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Wizard
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April 11th, 2015 at 8:54:50 PM permalink
Quote: miplet

Is the Burn bet before or after checking for BJ?



After.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
surrender88s
surrender88s
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April 11th, 2015 at 8:55:36 PM permalink
If the house edge including the sidebet was similar to regular blackjack, the bet without the sidebet would likely be +EV. I don't think you can make this game feasible.
"Rule No.1: Never lose money. Rule No.2: Never forget rule No.1." -Warren Buffett on risk/return
Wizard
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Wizard
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April 11th, 2015 at 8:57:51 PM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

If it is handy, on what percentage of hands are you invoking the "game feature" and making the burn wager to get a new card?



19.43% of all hands. 18.51%, assuming you have the free will to do so (no dealer BJ).
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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April 11th, 2015 at 9:01:50 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Face down? How do you play out your hand?



They flip it face up if the player chooses to burn his second card.

Quote:

If BJ pays even money, why do we care that it's treated as a BJ? What other option is there?



You could make the same question about Double Exposure. A blackjack still beats a 21-point hand.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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April 11th, 2015 at 9:02:58 PM permalink
Quote: surrender88s

If the house edge including the sidebet was similar to regular blackjack, the bet without the sidebet would likely be +EV. I don't think you can make this game feasible.



If they wanted to lower the house edge, they could improve the odds on the side bet, perhaps paying more for an ace of spades.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Paradigm
Paradigm
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April 11th, 2015 at 9:22:48 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

19.43% of all hands. 18.51%, assuming you have the free will to do so (no dealer BJ).


That is not bad as far as frequency of the "new game feature"......I think the problem is going to be that a significant percentage of the time, you are not going to improve to a "much better" situation than you had before you paid the burn fee (I could be wrong). That is to say you pay the burn fee and then still end up with a Stiff hand or you end up with a 17 or 18 which is still likely to lose.

These are the type of statistics that really define the "enjoyment" factor of a new game. In BJ Switch, the amount of times you get to invoke the Switch to produce a better hand or in Free Bet, the number of times you get to make a "Free Bet" are drivers of why those games gained traction.

I think the stats on Free Bet are you get a free bet lammer about 15% of hands, which is always seen as a positive even if you lose the double or split.

For Switch, you would want to count the frequency where switching resulted in at least one of the hands being made significantly better, no idea what that percentage is.....but it is important when understanding how "fun" the new game feature is going to be.
Wizard
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Wizard
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April 11th, 2015 at 9:29:00 PM permalink
I can say that players where burning cards right and left at the Fremont. However, it was mostly nickel players.

I prefer the idea of taking a Mulligan on the whole hand.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Paradigm
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April 12th, 2015 at 7:52:56 AM permalink
Optimal play has just over 1 in 5 players burning cards, so about 1 player per round (assuming 5-6 players at the table) should be burning. Does that sound about right or do you think players were not playing optimally?
cyrus
cyrus
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April 12th, 2015 at 11:07:52 AM permalink
Assuming the HE was somehow reduced to being close to normal BJ, this would be a fun variant for me as a rec player. I like having additional decisions to make and more variety in how the hand can play out.

I'm not sure if it would be preferable to Switch or Free Bet, though. I feel like those variants are more interesting than this and provide a greater "feel" of beating the game when invoked.

Also if the only way to adjust HE would be to increase payout of the side bet, I'm not sure I'd go for it. I don't like the super high variance of most bonus bets as it feels like a constant drain of the BR with only the occasional boost. I have fairly limited BR so I dislike the risk of ruin.

Again just from the perspective of a $10-15 rec player looking for a "reasonable" HE while having fun.
Paradigm
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April 12th, 2015 at 12:23:24 PM permalink
Cyrus, opinions from players such as yourself are the ones that count........recreational players looking for a little more juice/excitement in a BJ game. Unfortunately that additional excitement normally comes with a bit of a higher HE otherwise the casino's would never take the risk to put them on the floor.

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