Triple Down Promotion
Quote: BleedingChipsSlowlyWhen I completed my eighteen hours straight of play, I asked the Floor Admiral what was recorded for my play time. She said I had only 4 hours 20 minutes of play, according to the computer. When I insisted that I’d been at the same table for 18 hours, she was dismissive and not at all helpful, saying I might have forgotten to give them my card. I explained that on being seated I refused to bet until my card was taken. She referred me to her boss who just parroted the same line of “we can’t do anything.” I would not drop the matter and was referred to the manager. The manager was also not very helpful other than he said he would ask for a review and maybe some time in the next two weeks they would get around to evaluating my claim. I stressed that the comp points were not really an issue as I was aware 18 hours of $5 play won’t get you a cup of coffee. The issue was being fairly credited for time played.
I did play through three shifts of dealers, so perhaps the paperwork was temporarily lost. Whether true or not, I was told it would not be possible to review the security camera recordings to verify my claim on the spot. I’m sure the manager thought he’d had the last word, but my wife was not satisfied with the situation and kicked it up another level. She talked with someone probably at the VP level who said she could see that I was playing during the first shift, but nothing was entered for the second shift.
After my wife and the VP chatted, the manager visited us while we were dining at The Birches and gave us a comp check to cover the meal. I’m sure he was unhappy that my wife “went over his head.” While handing over the check he reiterated the same information about the review procedure again, as if to justify his actions and not back down an inch. This was the only flaw in his otherwise professional demeanor. I was happy that we had gotten his attention. I will post here again and let all know what the final resolution is.
This was the only blemish on our visit to MS, and I consider it a minor one that won’t rule out a future visit. I understand that the $5 tables are visited by many players who are difficult customers that won’t hesitate to chisel the casino out of a few bucks, but I won’t accept that as justification for treating every claim with an air of suspicion that the customers can notice.
Hahaha, I think I saw you and your wife yelling at the pit boss at one point. Was probably 11pm or so, but my memory is not great. Your wife was not happy.
Quote: long3216At MS: Until recently, I mostly played craps and almost always was undercredited. Usually I would be don't pass, with $150.00, and take $10 Yo. As soon as the point was established, I would lay $150-300.00 on my $150 don't bet and also bet 6 and 8 for 30 each. The last time I checked my math, $150 + 30+ 30, not counting the Yo bet or the lay bets = $210. I would then increase my numbers bets if numbers started coming in. So my minimum bet was at least $210. (Most casinos don't cound either lay bets or free odds on pass line bets, since there is no house edge on this portion of the bet.) At the end of every session, I always check to see what "average bet" I've been credited with. Invariably, I'm told 80 or 100 dollars. I then end up arguing for the next half hour. All kinds of excuses tend to occur: the previous pit boss just left, the boxman shift just changed, the table was busy and we didn't see these bets. I've suggested that they should just ask the dealer what I've played. They won't ask the dealer, who sets up the bets. I've asked to ask any of the players around me, since it's pretty obvious to the other players, who are playing minimal amounts of money, when you're playing at a 5 dollar minimum table, what a higher betting player is betting. The response is "We don't want to disturb the other players, (who after a few hours play are more than happy to corroborate my claims.)" One pit boss asked me if I thought there was a conspiracy against me personally. I couldn't believe he even asked the question, but I told him that I was sure it was nothing personal, but that probably the casino routinely under credits players, at least at craps.
I switched to black jack, and have generally found that the pit bosses at the black jack tables are much more honest in calculating average bets and therefore, awarding appropriate comps. To be fair, perhaps it's easier to be accurate in blackjack, since most blackjack players are playing just one bet at a time, and don't have bets all over the table.
Yeah, but even if they missed your other bets, they should at least have you at $150 based upon your line bet.
Quote: WizardThanks again for the trip reports. I'm happy to have helped.
If I didn't make it clear, I think the MS deserves some applause for going through with this. Maybe it didn't hurt them as much as expected, but they still honored their own rules, which sadly is not often the case when any casino puts out a good advantage play. The philosophy here in Vegas is often let's just do any old thing, and if it looks like we blew it, we'll invoke the good-old "all rights reserved" clause, and cancel it early. Another common method of retaliation in Vegas is to cull a list of the "greedy" players who "abused" the promotion, and make them feel unwelcome for any future promotions or offers. It is too early to tell is the MS will do this, but it sounds like they were good sports about it, so I doubt it. This, by the way, is the reason why many players declined to present player cards, to answer the question posed earlier.
From some of the comments it sounds like there was still confusion and inconsistency about the rules and limits. The planning could have obviously been better. Then again, if they couldn't see the mistake they were making to begin with, they likely wouldn't foresee the problems and questions that would arise as a result. However, overall, I have to say BRAVO to the Mohegan Sun. If they had watered this down or canceled it early, I would be the first to rag on them. So it is only fair they get their due praise for doing the right thing.
I agree. I am glad they went through with it. It is common for Mohegan sun not to alert dealers of promotions. They had this somewhat complicated promotion going on concurrently to win a free bet every hour. The dealers had no idea how it worked. It was so bad that the dealer was asking me what to do every time! The dealer said that they are pretty bad with letting dealers know what is going on. In this case the floor people knew of the triple play promotion but had no idea about the details even while it was going on. They seemed rather amused and excited about the promotion though because people were loving it.
Quote: CbivitzI want to second the comments re: MS not properly rating. It happens all the time. Earlier this year they had me for a $6K win instead of $600 at Pai Gao. Obviously a typo and when I point out that it was impossible to win $6K at the level I was playing in the time noted, they promised to look into it and get back to me (they actually did get back to me after almost a month, but with a shrug of their shoulders). So I'm paying taxes on $5400 becasue MS can't be bothered with such trivial things.
That's incredibly foolish. You should know that their win/loss statements have no legal or IRS standing at all. They're not even sent to the IRS. If they're wrong, just ignore them, and report your taxes accurately.
Last nite I had the opportunity to spend a little time with one of the directors. I brought up the thought about the promotion. I would like to share his thoughts which he said was the casinos feelings.
1. The promotion was a smashing success.
2. More dealers will be on for part two.
3. They feel many new players participated and are hopefull some will become frequent customers.
4. They felt that this promotion was a good way of showing that they aren't always taking.
5. All floor people will be on the same page regarding rules ie: triple after splitting.
6. They were very disturbed about "west coast players" not using player rating cards.(how they knew where the players were from is a good question!).
7. Next summer for part two is a good bet.
8. One definite change will be on triple down day you must use a players card to play.
Quote: benbakdoffBleedingChipsSlowly-Not being rated properly is an all too common problem at Mohegan Sun.That's why I always check my comp points before and after play. The problem is with shift changes. There is no communication between the outgoing shift and the incoming shift. Rating cards are collected at the end of each shift for input into the system. This is where the ball gets dropped. No one bothers to start a new card for the unknowing and trusting player sitting at the table. The new shift couldn't care less what happened on the old shift and the old shift just wants to go home. As you've discovered,you'll get plenty of lip service but not much else. If they tell you they'll back up your time-well- I've got some swamp land for sale. The shifts change at 5AM,1PM,and 9PM. The solution is if you are playing at any of these times, automatically give your card to the new floor person. That should solve the problem. This transition should be smooth without player interaction and that's one of the pet peeves about the casino. At $5 a hand your comps will probably be 10% or $.50 an hour.
I have visited MS every weekend since the triple-down promotion and I've had no further comp problems. Of course, I haven't played through an entire shift. For the missing triple-down promption comp, I was told it would take two weeks to process the request. At two weeks and a day I still hadn't been comped, so I asked for a status at the players' desk. They could see that the request was submitted but not processed. I was referred to a host who took a look and informed me the request was submitted but not processed (Brilliant!). The host referred me to the pit I had played and they could read the same information on the screen, too. I was advised to "wait another week."
At that point I had no expectation that anything would ever be done, but the comp did show up a few days later. It seems that the comp rate for the $5 table is 2% of estimated wagers, or $1/hr for an estimated 80-hands/hour of $5 flat-betting.
Thanks, only1choice, for the intelligence report about MS's assessment of the promption and the possibility of another. I echo benbakdoff's puzzlement: why would they wait?
I write from North Cyprus, here we have 32 casinos and 4 of them has a promotion named ''extra double'' I think this is different form triple down
These are the common rules
6 Decks usually (Few casinos 8 decks)
No peek card
Dealer stands on soft 17
Player can double any two cards
Player can double after split
Player looses only original bet against BJ
Blackjack pays 3 to 2
Early surrender for any hands except the situation dealer shows Ace
Split three times to make 4 hands
Split aces to 1 time (dealer gives only one card to splitted Aces)
And also when you make double down whenever you want you can make one more double after got the third card (They call extra double)
For example Dealer shows 6 and you have 9 (6,3) and your bet is 50 usd , you put one more 50 usd to double down and you got a 2 now your hand is 11 if you wish you put one more 50 usd and you can have one more card and you had a ten now your hand is 21 and your bet is 150 usd and lets say that dealer busted you will be paid 150 usd
And one more thing, if you are walk in customer casino pays you %20 cash rebate after 500 usd (if your gambling is not too short) For example you played 3-4 shuffle blackjack and lost 600 usd and your game is over, you can take 120 usd back as cash and your net lost becomes 480 usd
Under these conditions what is the house edge of the game without extra double and cash rebate and what is the advantage of extra double promotion and cash rebate , and what is the best strategy ?
Quote: kingofcyprus78Hi Wizard, Hi everyone
I write from North Cyprus, here we have 32 casinos and 4 of them has a promotion named ''extra double'' I think this is different form triple down
These are the common rules
6 Decks usually (Few casinos 8 decks)
No peek card
Dealer stands on soft 17
Player can double any two cards
Player can double after split
Player looses only original bet against BJ
Blackjack pays 3 to 2
Early surrender for any hands except the situation dealer shows Ace
Split three times to make 4 hands
Split aces to 1 time (dealer gives only one card to splitted Aces)
And also when you make double down whenever you want you can make one more double after got the third card (They call extra double)
For example Dealer shows 6 and you have 9 (6,3) and your bet is 50 usd , you put one more 50 usd to double down and you got a 2 now your hand is 11 if you wish you put one more 50 usd and you can have one more card and you had a ten now your hand is 21 and your bet is 150 usd and lets say that dealer busted you will be paid 150 usd
And one more thing, if you are walk in customer casino pays you %20 cash rebate after 500 usd (if your gambling is not too short) For example you played 3-4 shuffle blackjack and lost 600 usd and your game is over, you can take 120 usd back as cash and your net lost becomes 480 usd
Under these conditions what is the house edge of the game without extra double and cash rebate and what is the advantage of extra double promotion and cash rebate , and what is the best strategy ?
WELCOME TO THE FORUM. I am sure that with the loss rebate and that extra double rule the odds will be in your favor. Now we need someone better at math than me to figure it out! The Wizard might be the one to do it, but there are a dozen or so other members with the skills to give you an answer. There is no worse feeling in BJ than doubling on a 9 and getting the dreaded deuce. Turning that into a good card is a real bonus.
There are a lot of card counters here. Do you know the 'penetration' if it is a shoe game, or is a continuous shuffle game? (Not that many are flying to Cyprus from here to take advantage....)
İn every casino we play with 6 decks, penetration is approximately %65-70 max (for some customers who does not follow basic strategy %80 max)
Most of the use shoe game (only golden Phoenix casino and Salamis by Conti us CSM )
But could counting is strictly forbidden. İf you follow an index like Fab 18 or you follow Ace/five count they don't understand anything (Here in Cyprus it is very hard to find qualified casino management, most of them are graduate of primary school) but if u count hi/low and when u reach to the end of the shuffle ıf u increase your bet and if u win at that hands they will easily take you to their Blacklist (if you lose that hands no problem:) ) One guy with suit will come to you and will ask to stop game , The sentence will be like that '' Mr SOOPOO sorry but camera room warned me ı can not allow you to play any card games any more if you want you can play roulette or slot machines thanks for your understanding bla bla...
And for cash rebate ı guess when the game ıs short and with hıgh bets you will have more advantage but really ı can not count what I the optimum bet ?
