Shaming annoying players off the table

Those of you who read my book know that I discovered a unique way to keep annoying people off the blackjack table where I am playing. Regrettably, the “Some dogs are named Talmadge” gimmick is sometimes difficult to employ in a busy casino or among serious players. I recently developed a new method that is surprisingly effective against a certain blackjack demographic.

As you know, there are many players who rarely or never offer a toke to the dealer. I have no problem with that character trait…to each their own. When the player is annoying, however, I’ve learned to use their “no-toke” stance against them.

A few weeks ago, a blackjackally challenged player at my table was making crappy decisions against basic strategy, but winning anyway. Plus, he was slow and maintained a sour demeanor. Finally, he never tipped the dealer. In my opinion, he had to go! After the guy hit a 13 against a 6, and drew an 8, I jokingly told him, “You should give the dealer a biiiigggggg tip for that pull.” He looked at me, then the dealer, but did nothing toke-wise. The dealer shrugged her shoulders at me and smiled; I tipped her a pink $2.50 chip. A couple hands later, the guy won another badly played hand when he shouldn’t have. I asked again, “What about that dealer tip?” This time, he gave me a dirty look, picked up his chips, and left the table! The dealer remarked, “He never tips.” I then watched as the player traveled around the pit and entered another game at an almost packed table. I was now playing head’s up against the dealer. I shamed the guy so badly, he left an almost empty table to play at an almost full one!

Yesterday, I used the method again on a woman who I’ve never seen toke the dealer. She moved as well. I’m onto something now…so much for Talmadge.

Glen Wiggy
Author of "1536 Free Waters and Other Blackjack Endeavors--Finding Profit and Humor in Card-Counting"

I also believe that the dealers should be tipped, so I am with you on that part.

I deviate from you thinking on the bad decisions. The other players decisions only affect his hand. The others players will get a random card irrespective of heat he/she does.

I dont believe in tipping a dealer simply because I get a great card.
Its odds and luck, nothing to do with the dealer.
Most people get the impression I dont tip but I do.
A session for me usually lasts 45 to 90 min.
I never ever tip while playing.
I always tip but its when I color up.
Its like dinner, I dont tip after the appetizer, dont tip after main course, dont tip after dessert, tip after paying the bill.
After a session at the table, color up and generally tip the spare singles, maybe a 5 depending on the quality of the dealer.

I'll try to remember that Talmadge thing, but its way over my head.

Once you demonstrate that you do know Basic Strategy, when you make deviations from it and win, people at the table often congratulate you for some reason.

I missed something... or a few things.

What did the other player do to hurt you? Were you hustling tips for the dealers? At some casinos where I've played if you bothered with another player like that someone would follow you out to your car.

As always, great post GW. I'll keep that one in my arsenal.

How other players play their hand and how much they tip is none of your business.

Quote: JimRockford

How other players play their hand and how much they tip is none of your business.

He's trying to encourage a player who is slowing his hands per hour from 175 to 55 to go have a nice day somewhere else.

It's not about that player's decisions, it's about the tempo of my game.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I missed something... or a few things.

What did the other player do to hurt you? Were you hustling tips for the dealers? At some casinos where I've played if you bothered with another player like that someone would follow you out to your car.

Very good points, Alan. Makes me wonder who the annoying player really was.

I deviate from basic strategy often, and never tip. Nobody could ever shame me into tipping a dealer.

I prefer to tip people that deserve it more, appreciate it more. Feels much better to give a dollar to the guy emptying a trash can than a dealer.

Wouldn't this 'strategy' to get rid of other players involve you having to tip a lot more though? I mean, you can't yell at other players for not tipping, then not be tipping yourself...

Quote: Romes

Wouldn't this 'strategy' to get rid of other players involve you having to tip a lot more though? I mean, you can't yell at other players for not tipping, then not be tipping yourself...

It's totally worth it if they're the only other person at the table. You more than double your EV/shoe if that person leaves and the shoes get played faster since you don't have a salty plopper sandbagging.

Quote: HowMany

I deviate from basic strategy often, and never tip. Nobody could ever shame me into tipping a dealer.

I prefer to tip people that deserve it more, appreciate it more. Feels much better to give a dollar to the guy emptying a trash can than a dealer.

How do you know what the dealers home situation is like? Do you think dealers are wealthy? Doesn't a dealer providing you with good service and an enjoyable experience deserve some gratitude? What if they have an autistic child at home and the Mom recently died of cancer. Would the dealer be worthy of your dollar or two then?


ZCore13

I am all for shaming ploppies! I like this.

Can't stand playing at a table with people who don't know what they're doing.

Quote: Zcore13

How do you know what the dealers home situation is like? Do you think dealers are wealthy? Doesn't a dealer providing you with good service and an enjoyable experience deserve some gratitude? What if they have an autistic child at home and the Mom recently died of cancer. Would the dealer be worthy of your dollar or two then?


ZCore13

+1

I'm pretty tired of accusations by APs that I'm part of the "evil" gambling industry, that all I do is feed addictions, and I don't "deserve" the money I earn.

I am trained to stand at a table, hand the cards out, protect against cheating, and pay/take wagers according to the rules of the game. I have never been trained--and don't believe any of my co-workers have been told--to point a gun at someone's head and force them to sit down at my table, nor have I ever encouraged someone to keep playing if they lose. Ultimately, they are responsible for their own decisions.

Most of my co-workers are struggling to get by like everyone. They have beat-up old cars, hospital bills, and child support payments. If you're going to criticize their career choice, fine...but do you have any better options for them?

I disagree with the system of tipping as a whole, in any industry, and wish that employers would just be forced to pay a fair wage for the work involved, but that's not likely to change anytime soon. So in the meantime, for those who do tip, thank you and good luck...for those who don't, well, good luck to you too, just don't expect the dealer to be on your side should you need it. :-)

On my side?

I don't think running off other players is slick or clever especially if you're an AP. It's just another added reason why casinos and casino employees want APs out the door.
Initially you might gain some value but long term it hurts everybody.

Quote: 1BB

On my side?

My thoughts exactly. When should I 'need' the dealer on my side? What can the dealer do that's not considered cheating? I don't want nor need a dealer to cheat for me.

On the same token, I think both sides need to understand there's good and bad on both sides of dealers. There are plenty of 'deserving' great dealers whom could of course 'use' the money. At the same time I've personally come across a lot of terrible, boring, mean, or 'house' dealers (that enjoy when the players lose). It goes both ways. I determine whom gets my tips by whom personally makes my experience better. Since the good/bad dealers alike both deal the cards, my opinion is that it should be based on more than that. Are they polite, engaging, friendly, fun, etc? Then I'll tip. Are the quiet, slow, rude (such as asking for tips), constantly trying to get me to play side bets and point out every single hand I would have hit one? Okay then, no tip.

The tough spot patrons get put in is okay, let's take the logic most dealers say "We provide a service to you, so you should tip us." Well, what about the security guy checking my ID? What about the Rewards Desk clerks that answer my questions? What about a PB that answers a question at a table I might have? Should I be tipping everyone at all times? It gets to a point where I feel like I should just walk in, give all my money to the employees as tips, and leave. I do also agree that it the entire situation would be solved if the employers would just pay their workers a fair wage and not put it on the customers to take care of their employees well being.

Quote: AxelWolf

I don't think running off other players is slick or clever especially if you're an AP. It's just another added reason why casinos and casino employees want APs out the door.
Initially you might gain some value but long term it hurts everybody.

Well said.

Quote: 1BB

On my side?

You know, when there's a dispute. Instead of moving your hand straight down, it went at a slight angle. Not your fault. Dealer may think you were waving it off for a stand. Or vice versa. Either way, you get skipped over or you get a card that busted your hand.

Somehow or another, the floorman gets called over and asks what happened. What do you think the dealer is going to say if the player's been a grouch the entire time? Good chance he'll tell his side of the truth, "Player waved it off and wanted to stand." If you've been tipping, even a little bit, there's a better chance he'll say, "I thought he was waving it off but he really wasn't.....ya know, the sun got in my eyes."

Or maybe when you ramp your bets up, he'll call checks play and make sure a floorman comes over, or make it known to his boss you're spreading (could be in the breakroom). Or maybe when you leave and floorman asks what the player left with and his average bet....well.....I'm sure we can all agree that sometimes you might want the dealers on your side.

Quote: RS

...Or maybe when you ramp your bets up, he'll call checks play and make sure a floorman comes over, or make it known to his boss you're spreading (could be in the breakroom). Or maybe when you leave and floorman asks what the player left with and his average bet....well.....I'm sure we can all agree that sometimes you might want the dealers on your side.

So I need to bribe a dealer to keep quiet about my spread? ...If a dealer identifies your spread, you've already done something wrong/need camo/etc. Confusing hand signals alike... These situations should be a rarity among APs.

Quote: Romes

So I need to bribe a dealer to keep quiet about my spread? ...If a dealer identifies your spread, you've already done something wrong/need camo/etc. Confusing hand signals alike... These situations should be a rarity among APs.

I'm saying times will come when you want a dealer (or even a floor-person) on your side. Like it or not, doesn't change the reality of it.

It may have already been hinted at earlier, but I'll say it anyway.

The OP's idea of shaming and belittling other players, even under the guise of trying to make the dealer more money, is a great way to get a pit boss breathing down your neck. The pit boss needs to look out for every player's rights, so he/she won't take kindly to these antics. And as an AP, anything that draws the pit's attention to you like this is a bad idea.

Quote: RS

I'm saying times will come when you want a dealer (or even a floor-person) on your side. Like it or not, doesn't change the reality of it.

I can absolutely see where you're coming from for a regular gambler... but for an AP, either you made a mistake or you didn't. There should be very few times in your entire career where something like this happens (ambiguous hand signal - your fault, blatant spread - your fault, etc). Past that if it's something that's not your fault at all, then they're either going to correct it or not. Befriending the dealer 'may' or may not help those situations, which as stated, should be extremely few and far between for any AP... so over the long hull, erroneous.

It's tough visiting a casino these days. Between the dealer not being on your side and the waitress spitting in your drink, what's a player to do? Should I worry about my tires being flattened? What else?

I can count the number of disputes I've had in a year on one hand and they've all been in my favor. If there's a problem, that's what the cameras are for. I will not pay "protection" money.

I understand where the dealers are coming from but sometimes they can be their own worst enemies. Just deal the cards. If you want to talk that's fine, if not that's also fine.

Quote: Romes

So I need to bribe a dealer to keep quiet about my spread? ...If a dealer identifies your spread, you've already done something wrong/need camo/etc. Confusing hand signals alike... These situations should be a rarity among APs.

I've found that most dealers will call for a play check if the hand breaches $100 regardless of your previous action.

You sound like one of those players that think other players' misplays affect your hand. Those guys are so annoying and they are usually the biggest cry babies.