At what point is it cheating?

Dealers are human and make mistakes (some more than others). I've been paid on three different occasions after I've busted and haven't even had any cards on my spot. I'd bust, the dealer would take my chip, I'd put my next bet out, and the dealer would end up busting and pay my bet (only $5 each time) even though I didn't have any cards out. I've kept silent when this happens and usually use that money as tip money throughout the rest of the session.

I've been paid a green chip on a red chip bet and also have been paid 3:2 on a regular winning hand (not a blackjack).

Today I was playing and a guy to my right had a $100 bet out. He busted, the dealer took his cards and forgot to take his chips. I signaled to stay on my hand and the guy to my right said "you forgot to take my money" to the dealer. If I was in his position I'm not so certain I would have said anything. Would this be cheating?

Usually I keep quiet about dealer mistakes because I believe it is the casino's responsibility to have their dealers pay out correctly and there are probably times I don't catch their mistakes that are not in my favor.

So when there is a blatant mistake or a mistake of great magnitude (such as the guy with the $100 bet) do you view it as cheating by not bringing it to the dealer's attention?

Quote: Mow21

Dealers are human and make mistakes (some more than others). I've been paid on three different occasions after I've busted and haven't even had any cards on my spot. I'd bust, the dealer would take my chip, I'd put my next bet out, and the dealer would end up busting and pay my bet (only $5 each time) even though I didn't have any cards out. I've kept silent when this happens and usually use that money as tip money throughout the rest of the session.

I've been paid a green chip on a red chip bet and also have been paid 3:2 on a regular winning hand (not a blackjack).

Today I was playing and a guy to my right had a $100 bet out. He busted, the dealer took his cards and forgot to take his chips. I signaled to stay on my hand and the guy to my right said "you forgot to take my money" to the dealer. If I was in his position I'm not so certain I would have said anything. Would this be cheating?

Usually I keep quiet about dealer mistakes because I believe it is the casino's responsibility to have their dealers pay out correctly and there are probably times I don't catch their mistakes that are not in my favor.

So when there is a blatant mistake or a mistake of great magnitude (such as the guy with the $100 bet) do you view it as cheating by not bringing it to the dealer's attention?

No, passively having the dealer pay you in error is not cheating. Christmas just came early.

If you cap or pinch your bets that's cheating. Most everything else is dealer error. But if there is an undeniable pattern where a dealer were to pay your pushes or pay hands where he has you beat, you could be arrested for collusion. This is not likely in a few isolated instances, and charges probably wouldn't stick if they couldn't prove you had an association. But what a hassle. So after being paid when you loose a couple of times, it's time to find another table.

Quote: Mow21

Dealers are human and make mistakes (some more than others). I've been paid on three different occasions after I've busted and haven't even had any cards on my spot. I'd bust, the dealer would take my chip, I'd put my next bet out, and the dealer would end up busting and pay my bet (only $5 each time) even though I didn't have any cards out. I've kept silent when this happens and usually use that money as tip money throughout the rest of the session.

I've been paid a green chip on a red chip bet and also have been paid 3:2 on a regular winning hand (not a blackjack).

Today I was playing and a guy to my right had a $100 bet out. He busted, the dealer took his cards and forgot to take his chips. I signaled to stay on my hand and the guy to my right said "you forgot to take my money" to the dealer. If I was in his position I'm not so certain I would have said anything. Would this be cheating?

Usually I keep quiet about dealer mistakes because I believe it is the casino's responsibility to have their dealers pay out correctly and there are probably times I don't catch their mistakes that are not in my favor.

So when there is a blatant mistake or a mistake of great magnitude (such as the guy with the $100 bet) do you view it as cheating by not bringing it to the dealer's attention?

It's cheating when you can be arrested and charged for your actions.

Its not cheating. Keep quiet, especially if it's someone else's bet.

I actually have an amusing story about this. I tend to be a straight shooter, but if I'm not able to "smoothly" tell the dealer that a mistake was made I'll just take it. Basically, I'll take a mispay when I feel like it.

I was sitting at a PGP table and the dealer mispaid another player. It was a small amount, like $5. I noticed it the whole time and said nothing because you don't want to be the asshole that rats on another player. The guy returned it and the dealer made a comment that when he is playing, he doesn't correct dealer error. Maybe a half an hour later I get a four of a kind with $5 on the fortune. I misread the board and said 50 to 1 to the dealer (he had forgotten). This was an honest mistake, I have no reason to lie now. So he paid me $250 and we went on our merry way. Some more time passes, I think maybe after one of his breaks, and this guy sits down and hits a first hand 4oak. He has $10 on the Fortune and I immediately blurt out $500. However, I get corrected that it's actually a $250 win. 4oak is paid at 25:1, not the 50:1 I was paid earlier at (maybe more than an hour). I thought about giving it back, but if I give it back now he will get in trouble for sure. I had some guilty looks of apology to him since he took my word for the payoff, but I ended up keeping the money.

I feel kind of bad about it, but on the other hand, I had a banker error of $125 in my favor. That's nice.

It's only cheating if you and dealer meet up in the john after his shift to divide up all the "errors."

It's not your job to enforce the game, it's the casino's. If the dealer makes an honest mistake, it's up to casino management to spot it. As a customer, that's not your job and you're not expected to know casino procedure -- much less enforce it.

I will say that I think it's unethical to lie to the dealer (for example, pays you on blackjack, busts, then asks did I pay you? and you say no.) In most cases I would say nothing and take what the dealer offers. I can remember one case where I felt very confident it would be best to not accept. I told the dealer she had a flush when she tried to pay, she said no I have 8 high and turned over the hand I was attempting to discard. I said you have flush, then two other Asians at the table also said you have a flush. Oddly enough she kept interpreting it as "in a rush" and paid. Eventually I gave up. Afterwards she was like you should thank me, I just saved you $x. I threw her $5 for her trouble.

Quote: ahiromu

I actually have an amusing story about this. I tend to be a straight shooter, but if I'm not able to "smoothly" tell the dealer that a mistake was made I'll just take it. Basically, I'll take a mispay when I feel like it.

I was sitting at a PGP table and the dealer mispaid another player. It was a small amount, like $5. I noticed it the whole time and said nothing because you don't want to be the asshole that rats on another player. The guy returned it and the dealer made a comment that when he is playing, he doesn't correct dealer error. Maybe a half an hour later I get a four of a kind with $5 on the fortune. I misread the board and said 50 to 1 to the dealer (he had forgotten). This was an honest mistake, I have no reason to lie now. So he paid me $250 and we went on our merry way. Some more time passes, I think maybe after one of his breaks, and this guy sits down and hits a first hand 4oak. He has $10 on the Fortune and I immediately blurt out $500. However, I get corrected that it's actually a $250 win. 4oak is paid at 25:1, not the 50:1 I was paid earlier at (maybe more than an hour). I thought about giving it back, but if I give it back now he will get in trouble for sure. I had some guilty looks of apology to him since he took my word for the payoff, but I ended up keeping the money.

I feel kind of bad about it, but on the other hand, I had a banker error of $125 in my favor. That's nice.

I too just let it go when it is in the 'history' column ... meaning a few hands ago. If I instantly realize the error I get it corrected; often I have a period of confusion. In this case, fear not, the dealer is getting fired for something else soon enough. I mean, how dumb is it to 'forget' and just take the player's word for it.

Always cover yourself. Never tip a dealer that makes mistakes in your favor.

I've discussed this with dealers over time and for small sums, even against the house, they'd rather not know - also they probably don't want management to know about it. Also remember it points out that the inspector missed it.

Personally I usually keep quiet - besides there's always a chance they payout less (I've seen Blackjacks paid even money when the Ace/Ten busts). However recently at a friendly BJ table, someone's sidebet was only getting 30/1 rather than 35/1; player threw me a £5 for pointing it out (as I'd "made" him £50).