about some basic rules on blackjack
Quote: konglifyWhy hard 5 always?
Basic strategy says to hit a hand of 8 or less.
If you can split the 2's, you do. If you can't split, you hit (according to basic).
for (int card1=1; card1<=13; card1++)
{
for (int card2=1; card2<=13; card2++)
{
for (int card3=1; card3<=13; card3++)
{
for (int simulation=0; simulation<1000000; simulation++)
{
// card1, card2 are the initial card for the player and card3 is the up card for dealer
// any needed card during the game play is draw at random
}
}
}
}
Using this method, I got the house edge changed to very negative (-5%) while the first method (simulate 100000000) give me something close to 0.5%, really weird.
Quote: konglifyHi there, I am reading the strategy for double exposure at https://wizardofodds.com/games/double-exposure/appendix/1/, I have a quick question. In the given table, why for the softhand for dealer (that is the top row) it only gives the soft hand up to 17? So what happens if the dealer get a ACE and a SEVEN in initial hand so the soft total is 18 (or even 19, 20)? What do we do for that case?
Since the dealer has to stand on a soft 18, the strategy for a dealer's soft 18 would be the same as for a hard 18. (The same with soft vs hard 19 and soft vs hard 20 - and, for S17, soft vs hard 17).
Quote: ThatDonGuySince the dealer has to stand on a soft 18, the strategy for a dealer's soft 18 would be the same as for a hard 18. (The same with soft vs hard 19 and soft vs hard 20 - and, for S17, soft vs hard 17).
Thanks, make sense. One more question, if I see dealer has total (hard) 16 point in his hand, I got 5-5. According to the table, I've got P/D (SPLIT if possible or DOUBLE). But what if double is not allowed, should I look at the strategy on player's 5+5=10 (hard) and dealer 16? If that's the case, I will get Dh, so HIT eventually when DOUBLE is not allowed?
Quote: konglifyAccording to the table, I've got P/D (SPLIT if possible or DOUBLE). But what if double is not allowed, should I look at the strategy on player's 5+5=10 (hard) and dealer 16? If that's the case, I will get Dh, so HIT eventually when DOUBLE is not allowed?
Huh?
Split if possible, double if not? That should only come up on 4/4 after the maximum number of splits, and it's still not basic - it's an advanced strategy.
Quote: DieterHuh?
Split if possible, double if not? That should only come up on 4/4 after the maximum number of splits, and it's still not basic - it's an advanced strategy.
What I mean is what if the game allow split once (so give max 2 hands) but not allow double after split. For example, I have 5-5 as the initial hand for the player, he splits into 2 hands and each may look like, 5-7 and 5-5. If the dealer has 10-6 hand, for the split hand (5-5), the table said P/D, but split is not allowed since it reached the maximum split already. Double is not allowed because no double after split. So what do we do in that case?
Quote: konglifyQuote: DieterHuh?
Split if possible, double if not? That should only come up on 4/4 after the maximum number of splits, and it's still not basic - it's an advanced strategy.
What I mean is what if the game allow split once (so give max 2 hands) but not allow double after split. For example, I have 5-5 as the initial hand for the player, he splits into 2 hands and each may look like, 5-7 and 5-5. If the dealer has 10-6 hand, for the split hand (5-5), the table said P/D, but split is not allowed since it reached the maximum split already. Double is not allowed because no double after split. So what do we do in that case?
...You don't split 5's. Basic strategy is for 5-5 to double to anything less than 10.
Quote: konglifyFor example, I have 5-5 as the initial hand for the player, he splits into 2 hands and each may look like, 5-7 and 5-5. If the dealer has 10-6 hand, for the split hand (5-5), the table said P/D, but split is not allowed since it reached the maximum split already. Double is not allowed because no double after split. So what do we do in that case?
Like Romes said, the player shouldn't have split 5/5 in the first place.
On every BS chart I've seen, 5/5 is a "Dh" - Double if possible, hit if not. (There are D11 tables, where doubling 5/5 is not allowed. D10, D9, and DA tables should allow doubling on 5/5. DAS/nDAS shouldn't matter, since... splitting 5/5 is not recommended.)
Splitting is either a wrong play, or an extremely advanced play that will get your actions scrutinized and possibly your play discontinued. (Do you have foreknowledge of the next cards to be dealt?)
If your simulation has been splitting 5/5, that might explain why your house edge numbers differ so significantly from expectation.
Quote: RomesQuote: konglifyQuote: DieterHuh?
Split if possible, double if not? That should only come up on 4/4 after the maximum number of splits, and it's still not basic - it's an advanced strategy.
What I mean is what if the game allow split once (so give max 2 hands) but not allow double after split. For example, I have 5-5 as the initial hand for the player, he splits into 2 hands and each may look like, 5-7 and 5-5. If the dealer has 10-6 hand, for the split hand (5-5), the table said P/D, but split is not allowed since it reached the maximum split already. Double is not allowed because no double after split. So what do we do in that case?
...You don't split 5's. Basic strategy is for 5-5 to double to anything less than 10.
Thanks but I am not sure if we are in the same page ... I am asking the strategy on double exposure, when the dealer's total point on 2-card hand is 16, player has 5-5, the strategy gives P/D so could split or double.
Quote: konglifyThanks, make sense. One more question, if I see dealer has total (hard) 16 point in his hand, I got 5-5. According to the table, I've got P/D (SPLIT if possible or DOUBLE). But what if double is not allowed, should I look at the strategy on player's 5+5=10 (hard) and dealer 16? If that's the case, I will get Dh, so HIT eventually when DOUBLE is not allowed?
Yes - if you are told not to split, then you treat it as a non-paired 10, and the strategy is Dh, so if you can't double, then you hit (which makes sense; why would you ever stand on a 10?).
Quote: ThatDonGuyYes - if you are told not to split, then you treat it as a non-paired 10, and the strategy is Dh, so if you can't double, then you hit (which makes sense; why would you ever stand on a 10?).
Thanks.
BTW, do you have any idea what's the edge for double exposure? From my code, I got the edge is about 90% when I am dealing with 8 decks, no double after split allowed. Also, from the strategy table, it seems that double exposure doesn't allow surrendered all the times, right?
Quote: konglifyI am asking the strategy on double exposure, when the dealer's total point on 2-card hand is 16, player has 5-5, the strategy gives P/D so could split or double.
My mistake - I thought we were talking about blackjack*, for some reason.
I expect the strategy chart lists "D" as "Double - Hit if not allowed". So, P/D would be "Split - Double if not allowed - unless you can't double, then hit".
Double check that splitting 5/5 is the right play on an nDAS game. I don't have the math in front of me, but it feels wrong.
*Double exposure is a game in the family of 21 games, but it's not blackjack.
Quote: DieterMy mistake - I thought we were talking about blackjack*, for some reason.
I expect the strategy chart lists "D" as "Double - Hit if not allowed". So, P/D would be "Split - Double if not allowed - unless you can't double, then hit".
Double check that splitting 5/5 is the right play on an nDAS game. I don't have the math in front of me, but it feels wrong.
*Double exposure is a game in the family of 21 games, but it's not blackjack.
Thanks a lot for your info. My bad that I didn't know that 21 games not the same the blackjack. So Does it mean double exposure won't pay blackjack? besides that, what else differences?
Quote: konglifyMy bad that I didn't know that 21 games not the same the blackjack. So Does it mean double exposure won't pay blackjack? besides that, what else differences?
It depends on the table, of course.
The big differences in games that make them "not blackjack":
- not a full deck (like... a rank of 10's removed)
- ties don't push (house wins ties)
- dealer 22 pushes instead of loses
- some of the weird ban-ban/ban-luck rules (like the dealer can evaluate his hand against some players, then take more actions, then evaluate against other players)
- any other rule where the dealer's hand is evaluated differently than the player's hand (debatable)
- 6:5 (or 7:5, or 1:1) instead of 3:2 (debatable)
The debatable points are open for discussion... specifically if a player natural gets paid before the dealer hand is evaluated, or a "short pay" natural that always gets paid, or "even money" insurance on a "short pay" table.
None of these means the games aren't enjoyable, or that a basic strategy can't be devised, or that the game can't be beaten. It just means they're not blackjack - they're 21 games. They're similar, and the way that you'd devise a strategy for these games is similar to how you'd devise a strategy for blackjack.
Quote: konglifyI have another dump question. I am reading the open code online with penetration included. I wonder in BJ game, when we said penetration is 80%, says using 6 decks. Does it mean all decks got reshuffle when 80% of 312 cards dealt? or does it mean all decks got reshuffle when 20% of 312 cards dealt?
There are no dumb questions. Ask anything you like. You see 80% of the cards so the shuffle comes when 20% are left.
Quote: Dieter
It's still advantageous to surrender 16 v 10, since the likelihood of drawing a winning or pushing hand is less than 50%. If you can surrender, surrender. If you can't surrender, hit or split. (You might get a hand like that but be unable to surrender if you get that hand by splitting.)
To be more precise, surrender when you're expected to lose more than 50% of your bet on average, with any other options. i.e. You lose more than 75% of the time and win less than 25% save for pushes.
The way the quoted was worded, you'd be surrendering the majority of your hands since you lose more than 50% of the time with the majority of your two-card totals against any card. (e.g. a 12 vs 6, you win 43% of the time and lose 57% of the time, with no pushes).
