What's your session bankroll? And what's your record time of losing it?
My personal session bankroll is 6 max bets, upon losing it I will take a short break from the tables and go take a walk or have a drink. I some times go over the limit because I never leave at positive count, I either wait until the count to drop or end of the shoe before leaving.
My record time of losing 6 max bets (I usually play 2 hands, 8x max bet if I play 1 hand) just happend 2 days ago. Was playing 2 deck 1v1 with dealer. Count shot up after the first hand and dropped back to negative when there were roughly one deck left, during which I lost every single hand. Thus ending my shortest session yet, roughly 1.5 minutes.
So what's your story? Thanks in advance for sharing.
Worst variance was losing 80 units in a single shoe. My partner called me in, we both placed some significant bets and lost every single hand, mostly to dealer BJs.
My partner lost 80 units in 45 minutes playing DD during our last vegas trip but that's more reasonable than a single shoe.
Had another win of 28 units in 45 minutes. But that was at the Barona SD, DAS, DA2, LS, H17 $100 min table spreading 1-4, $200 off the top. (Those were the days, my friend, We thought they'd never end. We'd sing and dance forever and a day...)
Quote: NumpkinThis is a just-for-fun post. Session bankroll is basically a loss limit you set for yourself per session, just to help you to alleviate the mental stress during negative variances.
My personal session bankroll is 6 max bets, upon losing it I will take a short break from the tables and go take a walk or have a drink. I some times go over the limit because I never leave at positive count, I either wait until the count to drop or end of the shoe before leaving.
My record time of losing 6 max bets (I usually play 2 hands, 8x max bet if I play 1 hand) just happend 2 days ago. Was playing 2 deck 1v1 with dealer. Count shot up after the first hand and dropped back to negative when there were roughly one deck left, during which I lost every single hand. Thus ending my shortest session yet, roughly 1.5 minutes.
So what's your story? Thanks in advance for sharing.
For blackjack between 30 and 40 max bets based on several factors, some of which are rules, number of decks, length of play and how many other players at the table. No win goal and no stop loss. Both will cost you EV. I look at blackjack as one long, lifetime session.
I went on tilt (it really doesn't happen that often), but that all happened within 20 minutes heads up. 12 units in 30 hands is pretty depressing for me.
Go figure - I'm perfectly winning to drop $200 at a table, but I'll think twice before spending even half that on a show ticket or meals (that's lunch and dinner combined). Save the Wagyu steak wrapped in Tokyo X bacon for someone else.
Quote: ThatDonGuyGo figure - I'm perfectly winning to drop $200 at a table, but I'll think twice before spending even half that on a show ticket or meals (that's lunch and dinner combined). Save the Wagyu steak wrapped in Tokyo X bacon for someone else.
That's a thing. I'll buy store-brand because it's a dollar cheaper, but I'll put down several hundred on a table.
Quote: DeucekiesThat's a thing. I'll buy store-brand because it's a dollar cheaper, but I'll put down several hundred on a table.
It's because you think you'll win because
you see others around you winning, and
you've won before. It's almost like a form
of mass hypnosis, like when the guy gets
15 people on the stage and has them
clucking like chickens.
The casino has a winning atmosphere set
up. You see lots of people winning, even
though you can't know if they're behind
or ahead. Most people are glass half full
types, so you assume they're ahead, and
you can get ahead too. Examine the feelings
you have as you sit to play at the start, it's
never a feeling of doom, of impending disaster.
It's always the opposite. They have the hook
in you from the minute you walk in.
Quote: EvenBobIt's because you think ..................
..........................They have the hook
in you from the minute you walk in.
But Bob, no different than almost all other retail. Clothes store----did you ever see any sloppy, fat, out of shape mannequins??? Portraying the sharp GQ look or the sexy female aura to entice you to buy. Gourmet food store---pretty ass spreads of delicious food and samples of the best of the best to entice you. The list goes on and on. I used to be in retail for awhile back east in NJ and corporate would send us all kinds of info, pictures and data that was supposed to entice, work, convince and grab the cash from the suckers that came through the doors, etc. Even employees were suggested to 'look the part' and 'dress the part' and we were verbally warned not to hire fat, sloppy, unattractive people to work there, etc.
But the threat for me to lose my bankroll as OP has defined it is at Craps. $1000 is pretty much all I care to lose at a session. The quickest I lost that was playing the darkside at a $10 table with 3x4x5x. About 50 bets an hour is pretty consistent with me, meaning my average bet might have been $50 or so. I was down the entire $1000 or so in less than an hour. Stings!
I don't engage in any sort of win/loss stop limits. They are a negative draw on EV. To walk away from a plus EV situation, because you have hit some sort of win/loss limit that you set, makes no sense to me. There is something to be said for limiting wins, as huge wins will attract attention, but I have several exit triggers that will usually kick in, to minimize this.
As a matter of fact, walking away from a plus count, mid shoe is one of my top...no-no's. If you have run out of money and are forced to do so, it is one of the worst feelings. Those really good, plus counts come along infrequently. You don't want to waste one because you didn't plan accordingly and ran out of money. This is where session limits comes in to play. I have rules for minimum amounts that I need to begin play for different games. If I don't have that amount, I would rather replenish (trip to bank or home) before I attempt to play. You only need be forced away from a really good count once to learn that lesson :(
For me, trip or session bankroll is a balancing act. You don't want to carry too much BR (cash and chips) because there is a risk in the form of robbery. That too is lesson I learned the hard way unfortunately and once you do, you learn to exercise precautions there as well.
Quote: DeucekiesThat's a thing. I'll buy store-brand because it's a dollar cheaper, but I'll put down several hundred on a table.
My wife laughs at me constantly about this. I will save 10 cents by buying the generic mac and cheese but have no problem taking a few thousand dollars to chase a good play.
Quote: DRichMy wife laughs at me constantly about this. I will save 10 cents by buying the generic mac and cheese but have no problem taking a few thousand dollars to chase a good play.
I have gone through some of that myself. I am going to say it is the AP mindset of "value" and always 'seeking value' kicking in.
In my own case, when I started my career, I was on such a shoe-string bankroll and budget, that I searched for value everywhere. That "penny saved" mentality. As recently as a few years ago, when I was doing much better, making upper five figures for several years and playing limits where I places wagers of mid black, I still found myself seeking strange value decisions that were worth pennies. An Example: I would take home sugar packets and napkins from every restaurant that I ate in (sometimes butter packs from the buffets). Like you my friends and housemates, though I was nuts.
I have since grown away from some of that, at least the most extreme.
Quote: Baccaratfrom79But Bob, no different than almost all other retail. Clothes store---- Gourmet food store---
Yes, there are lots of stories of people
going into food stores and blowing their
checking account and the kids college
fund. The horror, the horror..
Quote: kewlj
I have since grown away from some of that, at least the most extreme.
Loretta Lynn said that even years after
she made it big and was rich, she would
still go to K-Mart but multiples of things
on sale, like electric frying pans, just in
case the money ran out and she was
destitute again.
Penny pinchers in Hollywood are legend.
Yul Brenner was the worst. He was always
working and was a millionaire, yet he
constantly sponged off his friends. He would
arrive for a weekend and stay 2 weeks. He
never picked up the check at restaurants.
He was a chain smoker and constantly bummed
smokes from whoever was around. People
thought it was funny.
Quote: kewljFor me, trip or session bankroll is a balancing act. You don't want to carry too much BR (cash and chips) because there is a risk in the form of robbery. That too is lesson I learned the hard way unfortunately and once you do, you learn to exercise precautions there as well.
Wow, that sucks! I don't remember you relating a story about being robbed (if you've told it here before I apologize). Do you have any tips to avoid it, other than "be aware" and mitigate the risk by not carrying more than you need?
Quote: EvenBobIt's because you think you'll win because
you see others around you winning, and
you've won before. It's almost like a form
of mass hypnosis, like when the guy gets
15 people on the stage and has them
clucking like chickens.
The casino has a winning atmosphere set
up. You see lots of people winning, even
though you can't know if they're behind
or ahead. Most people are glass half full
types, so you assume they're ahead, and
you can get ahead too. Examine the feelings
you have as you sit to play at the start, it's
never a feeling of doom, of impending disaster.
It's always the opposite. They have the hook
in you from the minute you walk in.
BEYOND well said my friend...ha ha
Quote: AcesAndEightsWow, that sucks! I don't remember you relating a story about being robbed (if you've told it here before I apologize). Do you have any tips to avoid it, other than "be aware" and mitigate the risk by not carrying more than you need?
The incident occurred in the summer of 2011, which was before I became a member here. It was not one of my prouder moments so I doubt I have mentioned it here unless there was reason to. But I will now as it is a chance to remind all of us to be careful. As AP's, whether recreational or professional, we carry amounts of money that can make us targets. I am sure everyone tries and means to be careful and vigilant, but it is easy to become complacent.
I was robbed at gun point immediately outside the high-rise condo building that I lived in at the time, a block off the strip. When the assailant demanded my bankroll, rather than my wallet it became crystal clear that it was not a random event and that I was targeted, because of my own stupidity and carelessness concerning my posting of experiences (on another site). Luckily, (I guess) I was returning home from a losing day, so the amount I lost was less than otherwise might have been. But it was a wake-up call and I made changes to the way I do things that day.
Quote: kewljThe incident occurred in the summer of 2011, which was before I became a member here. It was not one of my prouder moments so I doubt I have mentioned it here unless there was reason to. But I will now as it is a chance to remind all of us to be careful. As AP's, whether recreational or professional, we carry amounts of money that can make us targets. I am sure everyone tries and means to be careful and vigilant, but it is easy to become complacent.
I was robbed at gun point immediately outside the high-rise condo building that I lived in at the time, a block off the strip. When the assailant demanded my bankroll, rather than my wallet it became crystal clear that it was not a random event and that I was targeted, because of my own stupidity and carelessness concerning my posting of experiences (on another site). Luckily, (I guess) I was returning home from a losing day, so the amount I lost was less than otherwise might have been. But it was a wake-up call and I made changes to the way I do things that day.
Yikes. Thanks for sharing.
That is nutso that you were targeted as an AP specifically carrying a roll. But your conclusion makes sense. I try to post in such a manner that a similar incident would not be possible with me, but my exposure is waaaayy less than you given I don't play as my main source of income.
Anyway, at least you weren't hurt.
Quote: AcesAndEights
Anyway, at least you weren't hurt.
My pride was. :/
when you say units are you talking betting units or are you talking 56 x the table min?Quote: GreasyjohnI was playing a $25 DD game in 2014 and lost 56 units in the first 10 minutes. Worst 10 minute loss I've ever had. And I've never won 56 units in 10 minutes either! Best win was 88 units in 20 minutes.
Had another win of 28 units in 45 minutes. But that was at the Barona SD, DAS, DA2, LS, H17 $100 min table spreading 1-4, $200 off the top. (Those were the days, my friend, We thought they'd never end. We'd sing and dance forever and a day...)
Quote: AxelWolfwhen you say units are you talking betting units or are you talking 56 x the table min?
I was talking about a $25 game, so the 56 units are $25 each.
So someone lost 56 units betting $25 a hand in 10 minutes?Quote: GreasyjohnI was talking about a $25 game, so the 56 units are $25 each.
I didn't even think it was possible to play 56 hands pf BJ in 10 minutes And that would be assassuming you lost 56 str8. What am I missing here?
Quote: AxelWolfSo someone lost 56 units betting $25 a hand in 10 minutes?
I didn't even think it was possible to play 56 hands pf BJ in 10 minutes And that would be assassuming you lost 56 str8. What am I missing here?
I can play 3 hands a minute, heads up, with a fast dealer but that's only 30 hands in 10 minutes. Losing 56 straight hands, while technically possible, is extremely unlikely. Playing 56 hands in 10 minutes is not possible. Have I lost 56 units in 10 minutes? More times than I care to remember and more than 56 units. What I think we're missing here is doubles, splits and betting with the count. That's all it would take.
Someday we'll have to start a discussion about the definition of "unit" which can sometimes be confusing or misleading.
If you're counting and fluctuating your bets then each different size bet would be a different unit.
If not then somosomeone could lose 500 units in 2 minutes.
Using the terms units should be used for each bet size within reason.
Quote: AxelWolfSo someone lost 56 units betting $25 a hand in 10 minutes?
I didn't even think it was possible to play 56 hands pf BJ in 10 minutes And that would be assassuming you lost 56 str8. What am I missing here?
I was paying a $25 min game with a 1-8 spread. Usually opening for $75. I never said I was playing $25 a hand. I wouldn't think that players' saying they won or lost such and such amount of "units" should imply flat betting. What AP flat bets? "Units" would refer to a player's min bet, I would think. Sorry for the confusion if I'm using the terminology incorrectly.
many, at least the ones playing soft games.Quote: GreasyjohnWhat AP flat bets? .
Quote: mcallister3200many, at least the ones playing soft games.
What are soft games? (I was being specific to blackjack.)
Quote: mcallister3200Could be a few circumstances but special promotions would be one. Coupons that pay 2:1 on blackjack for an entire shoe, or a few years back when Mohegan Sun had the triple down promotion.
Thanks. I'd never heard that expression, even though I've sought out and played many soft games myself.
Quote: RomesLost 180 units this last weekend on the very ugly side of variance =/. I think this was the record for wiping out a 'session' / 'all day' bankroll.
I echo Romes here -- that's my weekend loss record as well.
Quote: RomesLost 180 units this last weekend on the very ugly side of variance =/. I think this was the record for wiping out a 'session' / 'all day' bankroll.
Just how bad a beating that was depends on your definition of "unit". Most people define unit incorrectly, but I won't get into that. Even if you are using minimum wager as your definition, it's a big loss and no matter how long you have played the game and no matter how many times you experience it, the big loss days hurt.
Here's something I always try to remember during such times: Variance is our friend....even or especially the "ugly side of variance". If there was no ugly side of variance, and everyone just won something along the lines of EV, session after session, the everyone and his brother would be APing. The result of that would be that casinos wouldn't offer any beatable games. I know that seems like small consolation, but I hope it helps. :)
Quote: kewljJust how bad a beating that was depends on your definition of "unit". Most people define unit incorrectly, but I won't get into that. Even if you are using minimum wager as your definition, it's a big loss and no matter how long you have played the game and no matter how many times you experience it, the big loss days hurt.
Here's something I always try to remember during such times: Variance is our friend....even or especially the "ugly side of variance". If there was no ugly side of variance, and everyone just won something along the lines of EV, session after session, the everyone and his brother would be APing. The result of that would be that casinos wouldn't offer any beatable games. I know that seems like small consolation, but I hope it helps. :)
I wasn't using the proper unit term, just threw out the min bet as most others would. I do have our actual unit calculated though, which would be roughly 45 units lost that day. I'm kind of surprised I wasn't more frustrated... but after having months of losing prior, and after coming off of 5 winning trips in a row, I knew the "ugly side of variance" had the potential to rear its head at any time =p. I'm happy to say I took it on the chin, constantly thinking about the CE generated lol. At least, that's what I'll keep reminding myself. Get the money out with the advantage, after that, it's out of our hands and in the hands of mathematics.
Quote: 1BBFor blackjack between 30 and 40 max bets based on several factors, some of which are rules, number of decks, length of play and how many other players at the table. No win goal and no stop loss. Both will cost you EV. I look at blackjack as one long, lifetime session.
Eating, sleeping, using the bathroom, and maintaining personal relationships also cost EV...wouldn't you agree they cost even more in blackjack EV than a stop loss? THE RALLY TO STOP MAINTAINING PERSONAL HYGIENE STARTS HERE WITH ME AND 1BB!!!
