CSMs in Vegas

Hi,

I've just had a look on the Blackjack Survey page on this website and found that the Mirage, Monte Carlo, New York New York and Treasure Island all offer 2 deck, S17, DAS, min $50 stake. Does anyone know if CSMs are in operation on these tables? Also, are CSMs only to be avoided if card counting?

Thanks for any replies!

You're not going to find a 2 deck csm anywhere, it would defeat the purpose of having a csm. You'd still see as many cards before shuffling as Gold Coast deals out on their double deck though!

Quote: mcallister3200

You're not going to find a 2 deck csm anywhere, it would defeat the purpose of having a csm. You'd still see as many cards before shuffling as Gold Coast deals out on their double deck though!

Are you saying they have good or bad penetration?

Worst in Vegas, they deal out less than one deck on a 2 deck game

Quote: Looterman

Also, are CSMs only to be avoided if card counting?

Avoid CSMs if you don't like them.

If you can find a 3:2 game with limits that suit you, no reason not to play it. Basic strategy should still work.

You can play, you can win... just don't expect the game to be beatable the same way a traditional shuffle is.

Quote: Numpkin

Worst in Vegas, they deal out less than one deck on a 2 deck game

and it's a hand shuffle, most of their games are DD too! Look far and wide it would be difficult to find a casino that is torching more money.

Quote: Looterman

Hi,

I've just had a look on the Blackjack Survey page on this website and found that the Mirage, Monte Carlo, New York New York and Treasure Island all offer 2 deck, S17, DAS, min $50 stake. Does anyone know if CSMs are in operation on these tables? Also, are CSMs only to be avoided if card counting?

Thanks for any replies!

Any double deck games won't be CSM (as others stated above). CSM's usually have 4-6 decks in them. Also, if you have to ask about avoiding CSM's when counting, do you understand why you'd want to avoid them? Are you trying to count?

I'm new to blackjack and at the moment just reading up on the subject. I'm just getting my head around basic strategy before learning to count. Is it right that the cards after a round go right back into the CSM so impossible to count?

Quote: Looterman

I'm new to blackjack and at the moment just reading up on the subject. I'm just getting my head around basic strategy before learning to count. Is it right that the cards after a round go right back into the CSM so impossible to count?

Yes, that seems to be standard practice with csms, making it impossible to count with traditional methods.

Quote: Looterman

I'm new to blackjack and at the moment just reading up on the subject. I'm just getting my head around basic strategy before learning to count. Is it right that the cards after a round go right back into the CSM so impossible to count?

Yes... for the most part ;). You're on the right path of learning Basic Strategy first. If you want a bit more of a helpful guide, check out my A-Z Counting Cards in Blackjack thread. It should cover a lot of the steps (in the right order) of what you're looking for. Especially at the stage you're at, you want to avoid ALL CSM's.

Quote: Romes

Yes... for the most part ;). You're on the right path of learning Basic Strategy first. If you want a bit more of a helpful guide, check out my A-Z Counting Cards in Blackjack thread. It should cover a lot of the steps (in the right order) of what you're looking for. Especially at the stage you're at, you want to avoid ALL CSM's.

Thanks very much for that, there's plenty of reading there, you put a lot of effort into that - this is a great forum!

I'm currently reading The World's Greatest Blackjack Book, and whilst I consider myself to be of good intelligence I'm finding it hard to understand the Hi-Opt 1 strategy tables, e.g it says "-5" when holding 15 v a dealer 2. What does that mean exactly? Maybe I'm just getting ahead of myself but it doesn't seem clear to me.

Quote: Looterman

Quote: Romes

Yes... for the most part ;). You're on the right path of learning Basic Strategy first. If you want a bit more of a helpful guide, check out my A-Z Counting Cards in Blackjack thread. It should cover a lot of the steps (in the right order) of what you're looking for. Especially at the stage you're at, you want to avoid ALL CSM's.

Thanks very much for that, there's plenty of reading there, you put a lot of effort into that - this is a great forum!

I'm currently reading The World's Greatest Blackjack Book, and whilst I consider myself to be of good intelligence I'm finding it hard to understand the Hi-Opt 1 strategy tables, e.g it says "-5" when holding 15 v a dealer 2. What does that mean exactly? Maybe I'm just getting ahead of myself but it doesn't seem clear to me.

Indeed I did put some effort in to that =). I saw a lot of the same repeating questions (which a few are here as well) so I tried to put a comprehensive guide together that answers a lot of them for the beginner/intermediate players.

I'm pretty sure what you're referring to is called an "index play." This is a deviation from basic strategy according to the count. In my thread this would be under the section "Illustrious 18 & Fab 4". This means that for the Hi-Opt 1 count, you change strategy for 15v2 at the count -5... meaning if the count is that bad, you actually are supposed to HIT your 15 because there's that many small cards left. A couple side notes about this:

1) You should never be playing that bad of a count. Most players "wong out" when the TC gets below -1 (for hi/low). This helps your EV a lot to NOT play these very negative expectation hands.
2) Even if you're intelligent, some of the other counting systems (especially unbalanced counts) can take extra time and practice to yield great results. This is one of the main reasons I suggest the Hi/Low count in my thread. This keeps things a lot simpler. I also have a link to compare the counting systems. Hi-Opt1 has a slightly better insurance correlation and playing correlation, but the hi/low definitely has a much much better betting correlation (meaning you'll be putting your money out at the right time). You should pick a system that you are most comfortable with (or comes 'easiest' to you) because this is the system you'll make the least amount of mistakes with. Making a betting/playing mistake or two an hour can really hurt a counter. You want a system you can do, flawlessly.
3) That's not a bad book to read, and there are many other great books (recommended in the thread too). I also touch on the fact that I'm glad I found out some of this info BEFORE reading the books because then I was able to take so much more out of the books (i.e. they made a lot more sense when I had a base understanding of the subject matter).

I think you'll find a lot of questions are answered in that thread =). If you read through it and have ANY others, just feel free to post in that thread and myself or another member will more than likely answer them. Indeed this is a great forum!