Confused as to bet amounts at given TC....

So , here is the dilemma. Wong says for a 5$-60$ (12 spread) to run a 3k bank roll. Then there is the problem of your max bet never exceeding 1% of your bankroll.... where a 60$ bet is 2% of that bank roll.... I play locally at this what I would call hole in the wall casino where I back count and never get any form of acknowledgment for it, I tend to take a trip roll of around ~$200 since I go pretty much 3 days a week. The thing is my bank roll (which I have a full time job so it gets added to all the time no big deal) is pretty much always hovering around 1k with the ups / downs from so many visits. Which in theory means to never bet more then $10 but on a decent day if I made lets say $30 off playing $10 hands then I just payed for my gas .... This is back counting for +5 counts and playing a .... handful ;] .... of hands a day. What should I really be betting at +5 counts (in terms of # of hands on a single round and bet per hand) if my bankroll is getting renewed continuously. Also my other problem is that I only back count, I don't sit and play all day so please dont bash me on how my bankroll blows (which I already know someone is going to say)

trip roll of $200 is crap if your max bet is $60.

If you have a split + double down and lose it's already gone. and if you have a split and 2 double downs you can't even make the 2nd DD.

I would say bring 1K and bet 100 max. Less than that and you would make more EV delivering pizzas part time...

maybe I would make more EV.... BUT NOT NEARLY AS FUN! :]

#Sarcasm .... sorry , appreciate your response

200 is sufficient to have fun but that's about it. If you win your first few bets, particularly with blackjacks... you are off and running on an adventure but it won't be involving very many complex hands such as splitting 10s (or much else) or Doubling Down very often (and don't forget dealer bets every now and then or you will stand out and be remembered for it).

Some of these books want you to take ten grand with you.... well, I want to take ten grand with me too, but that's one heck of a lot of tin cans.

Quote: avenged43

So , here is the dilemma. Wong says for a 5$-60$ (12 spread) to run a 3k bank roll. Then there is the problem of your max bet never exceeding 1% of your bankroll.... where a 60$ bet is 2% of that bank roll.... I play locally at this what I would call hole in the wall casino where I back count and never get any form of acknowledgment for it, I tend to take a trip roll of around ~$200 since I go pretty much 3 days a week. The thing is my bank roll (which I have a full time job so it gets added to all the time no big deal) is pretty much always hovering around 1k with the ups / downs from so many visits. Which in theory means to never bet more then $10 but on a decent day if I made lets say $30 off playing $10 hands then I just payed for my gas .... This is back counting for +5 counts and playing a .... handful ;] .... of hands a day. What should I really be betting at +5 counts (in terms of # of hands on a single round and bet per hand) if my bankroll is getting renewed continuously. Also my other problem is that I only back count, I don't sit and play all day so please dont bash me on how my bankroll blows (which I already know someone is going to say)

You can bet 2% of your bankroll, or 2x Kelly. This is more aggressive and will lead to more variance, but it is within the realm of okay. More than 2% however you're going to lead to certain bust (the fluctuations are too great for your bankroll - I believe wong discusses this in his book).

Next, to hop on the bandwagon, your $200 trip BR is wayyyy to short. I would take a minimum of $500 with me (spreading $5-$60). Ideally you should take the $1k, but for the most part I'd think $500 should cover most of your trips.

When you say you back count for +5, is that RC or TC? If it's TC, you should absolutely be getting your money in SOONER (TC +2, or TC +3). The $5-$60 spread I believe is a "play through" spread where you play TC -1 up to TC +whatever. If you're going to wong you don't need as big of a spread. For example, if you only come in at TC +3, then you can start your bet spread at +3 (so probably like $25) and spread $25-$60. If you're getting zero heat for wonging I would suggest hopping in at TC +2 with $20, and spreading up to $80 at TC +5 and greater.

If you want to know your exact EV just break it down in excel. In my Card Counting A-Z thread I show the excel document and explain how to break every number down so you can play with your spread. Try upping it, lowing it, playing starting at TC +2 then starting at TC +3, etc. Find what works for you for your casino and it's level of heat, then you can calculate your EV, and maximize it for your situation.

Quote: avenged43

So , here is the dilemma. Wong says for a 5$-60$ (12 spread) to run a 3k bank roll. Then there is the problem of your max bet never exceeding 1% of your bankroll.... where a 60$ bet is 2% of that bank roll.... I play locally at this what I would call hole in the wall casino where I back count and never get any form of acknowledgment for it, I tend to take a trip roll of around ~$200 since I go pretty much 3 days a week. The thing is my bank roll (which I have a full time job so it gets added to all the time no big deal) is pretty much always hovering around 1k with the ups / downs from so many visits. Which in theory means to never bet more then $10 but on a decent day if I made lets say $30 off playing $10 hands then I just payed for my gas .... This is back counting for +5 counts and playing a .... handful ;] .... of hands a day. What should I really be betting at +5 counts (in terms of # of hands on a single round and bet per hand) if my bankroll is getting renewed continuously. Also my other problem is that I only back count, I don't sit and play all day so please dont bash me on how my bankroll blows (which I already know someone is going to say)

I assume we're talking about shoe games. What are the rules and table conditions? Number of players?

Back in the dark ages we would say to have a bankroll of 1000 minimum bets, 100 max bets and everything in between. The advice is still okay in a pinch although it's very generic. We now have the software that allows all the pertinent data of a specific blackjack game to be analyzed for optimum play. No more guess work and no more estimating. Not all games are alike and the differences can be very surprising.

I would be remiss if I didn't echo what others have said and what you already know. You are severely underfunded. It has to be said. I would never begin a shoe with less than 10 max bets. That does not mean that I find a bankroll of 10 max bets acceptable. I do not. It means that on a losing day I will stop when I get to that level after having reduced my bets accordingly. You do not have that luxury at a $5 minimum table.

I would never play anything close to 2% Kelly. I don't like the risk. I not saying it's right or wrong. It's just me.
If you tell us about the game you play we can offer some suggestions but it all starts with bankroll. What count are you using? Are you comfortable with it? What is your error rate. Don't be offended but is your basic strategy flawless?

If you are waiting for TC+5 to wong in you must spend the majority of your time behind the tables instead of playing and you are missing opportunities.

What count do you use? What's your ramp? Rules? Penetration?

Like 1BB said...1000mins 100maxes was more of a guesstimate back in the day...when games were a lot stronger and N0 was a lot lower.

Betting 2x Kelly is sure ruin. Especially at your level (compared to table min).

If you wong in, you don't need a 1-12 spread. Do something like 1-6.... Well it really also depends on your entry/exit points.


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