Advanced Blackjack Question: Basic Strategy Variations (High PE)

I have not been able to find exact indices for when playing a Double-Deck S17 DAS NS game when using the Advanced Omega II counting system (PE = .671). In Carlson's book, he gives numbers for both Single-Deck & Multi-Deck (4 or more) but none for a Double-Deck game. Also, I now have the Casino Verite' software which generates indices for any counting system, but it also lacks a Double-Deck setting (Only Single-Deck & Multi-Deck). It may seem like nit-picking, but when playing with big money my goal is to create the lowest house edge possible & I would like for my numbers to be exact. I use over 50 basic strategy variations & would really like to know if there are any major changes when playing this game. Certain hands draw more concern than others...

9 v 2 = +2
9 v 3 = 0
12 v 6 = -2
A,7 v 2 = +2
A,7 v A = +3
A,8 v 6 = +2

(Only a few systems with very high playing efficiency would generate the same numbers as AOII. Such as HOII, UAPC, VAPC etc.)

I am wondering if these are exactly correct. Any help would be much appreciated!

While I'm no AOII expert, I would gander any indexes for any system are rounded numbers... Unless the I18 just always worked out to be perfect whole numbers =p. So if you want to get that exact and split hairs (which I'm a fan of, it shoes your intense dedication to doing it exactly right), perhaps that could even be taken in to consideration.

If you have the numbers for 1 deck and 6 decks, it will take some math, but you should be able to calculate double deck?

Yes I have the index numbers for both 1 deck & 6 deck, some of the numbers are very different. I was thinking that for double deck the index numbers are probably somewhere in between but I would like to know exactly because I hate making mistakes. After all the training I have done to learn such a complex system, it would just be a waste to stop now & risk making some wrong plays. After all, the very reason im getting into double deck games is to play at a lower house edge so it would be counter-productive to make wrong plays. I would like to find a definite answer if possible, but I will figure the numbers myself before my next trip if I absolutely have to. Will probably take several hours lol

Quote: theOmega623

Will probably take several hours lol

For the first one =p. After that you should be able to draw a conversion rate to apply to all of the 1 or 6 deck numbers to get the exact double deck number!

Hey Romes, do you know if the Casino Verite' software has a setting where it tells you the house edge of a certain game/system. For example, when playing a double deck game (flat betting) I want to know what the house edge is when using the Hi-Lo I18 vs using AOII full indices. Ive browsed the software quite a bit & I have not found any data on this. It might not show it, just curious if you would know from using it?

I do believe you can customize your count/indices/etc to mimic each system and then compare the results. However, if you're just looking to compare systems, I've posted this link before that compares them:

http://www.qfit.com/card-counting.htm

edit: Actually I've posted this comparison before too =p

No im not trying to compare the accuracy of the systems (PE, BC, IC) I have already done that. Im trying to figure just the house edge when using one of these systems. I know what the house edge is of a DD S17 game when using basic strategy (0.27%). I have read that using the Hi-Lo I18 indices reduces this house edge by about 0.2% thus making the house edge about 0.07%. Lets just assume flat betting, I would like to know by how much the house edge is reduced by when using the full indices of a system such as AOII that has a much higher PE than the Hi-Lo. Its a complicated question lol

Quote: theOmega623

I now have the Casino Verite' software which generates indices for any counting system, but it also lacks a Double-Deck setting (Only Single-Deck & Multi-Deck). It may seem like nit-picking, but when playing with big money my goal is to create the lowest house edge possible & I would like for my numbers to be exact. I use over 50 basic strategy variations & would really like to know if there are any major changes when playing this game.

Any help would be much appreciated!

Casino Verité allows you to set any number of whole decks from 1 to 10. Try a "multi-deck" setting with 2 decks. If you are still having trouble go to qfit.com and ask on their Blackjack forums.

Thanks nvr55xx, I will try that.

Quote: theOmega623

I use over 50 basic strategy variations & would really like to know if there are any major changes when playing this game. Certain hands draw more concern than others...

You said a mouthful. I dropped my BS variations to 23 and added 4 to improve my game even more. CV Data will help you determine or priortize which hands carry the most importance.

Well theyre really no problem at all. I got them from Bryce Carlson's book & I spent so much time memorizing them that its really easy now to incorporate them while playing. Ill take every bit of an edge that I can get & I dont think it gets any better than AOII with an ace side count with nearly all the basic strategy variations from -5 to +10 (leaving the table when the count drops below -5). I also believe that basic strategy variations are much more valuable when playing single or double deck vs 6 or 8 deck.

Quote: theOmega623

Well theyre really no problem at all. I got them from Bryce Carlson's book & I spent so much time memorizing them that its really easy now to incorporate them while playing. Ill take every bit of an edge that I can get & I dont think it gets any better than AOII with an ace side count with nearly all the basic strategy variations from -5 to +10 (leaving the table when the count drops below -5). I also believe that basic strategy variations are much more valuable when playing single or double deck vs 6 or 8 deck.

Hard to argue your logic. Seems like you have a good plan in place. Single deck is a little different story. There are a few high value deviations and some that don't matter much.

Yea ive never actually played any single deck games, but I would like to. From what I have read, even the few places that offer the 3:2 single deck games wont let you so much as raise your bet without giving you the boot. I see on the wizards blackjack guide that the 'Alamo' is currently offering a 3:2 single deck with surrender allowed (0.08% house edge). I would love to attack that bad boy lol

Quote: theOmega623

Yea ive never actually played any single deck games, but I would like to. From what I have read, even the few places that offer the 3:2 single deck games wont let you so much as raise your bet without giving you the boot. I see on the wizards blackjack guide that the 'Alamo' is currently offering a 3:2 single deck with surrender allowed (0.08% house edge). I would love to attack that bad boy lol

.08 house edge in today's games? Couldn't be much more of a counter trap in my opinion! Swing away I guess, but play unrated and very short sessions =P.

Yea im thinking its either a trap or its got to be screwed up in some way. Maybe one or two hands dealt then shuffle or something like that. Ill probably swing by there & check it out before I leave.