Card Counting
September 7th, 2014 at 6:51:36 PM
permalink
Hello, I've been researching card counting for a while now (and by research I mean utilizing the Googly), and I was just wondering, does card counting still work today? I know that the "golden age" of card counting is undeniably over, but is it still possible, in this day and age, to beat the casinos? Also, can anyone tell me what system is best for counting at a multiple deck game? (I'm currently learning the Zen Count) And what rules should I look for or avoid? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
September 8th, 2014 at 12:15:02 AM
permalink
Zen count works. I used to use it. I originally learned HiLo. After a few years and when I started playing double deck, I switched to Zen. Since then, I've joined a team and we use HiLo. The system, really, doesn't matter. The most important thing, when it comes to what system you learn, is one that you are comfortable with and can master 100%. Something funky about Zen is it can be confusing figuring out which indices you're supposed to memorize. Anyway, I would recommend HiLo.
AVOID 6:5 BJ, or anything that pays less than 3:2.
Penetration is (almost always) the most important thing to look for.
S17 is better than H17.
LS is better than non LS.
You should play DAS (Double After Split), but isn't necessary.
RSA (Re-Split Aces) doesn't really matter, but of course, RSA is better than non-RSA.
LS is more important, for a counter, than S17. So if your options are either S17 or H17 w/ LS, pick the H17 /w LS game.
Other than penetration, I think LS is most important.
Something else that can be overlooked is ability to spread and heat. Some stores you can have huge spreads and get away with it. Other stores, not so much.
If you're serious about playing BJ and learning to count, I recommend buying CVCX and CVBJ (qfit.com). CVCX is a simulator -- it'll simulate the game you're playing (count system, rules, spread, penetration, etc.) to show you how much you should be making per hour in EV, your Risk of Ruin, what kind of a bankroll you need, etc. It's also useful because you can figure out what games and penetration levels are better than other games. For example, you might find a 75% penetration S17 DAS LS game with 6 decks or a 90% penetration H17 DAS with 6 decks -- you can figure out which one is better and which one you should be playing. Or maybe you have a 70% pen game and a 85% pen game, both equal except the 70% game you can spread 1-50, but the 85% pen game you can only spread 1-12 (because of heat / pit boss awareness / surveillance, etc.). One is better and you should be playing the better one. CVBJ is a practice software. You plug in your system (what count system you use, rules, spread, penetration, etc.) and it deals blackjack to you. It's about as real as it gets. It'll let you know if you're making mistakes, what they are, and how much they cost you.
AVOID 6:5 BJ, or anything that pays less than 3:2.
Penetration is (almost always) the most important thing to look for.
S17 is better than H17.
LS is better than non LS.
You should play DAS (Double After Split), but isn't necessary.
RSA (Re-Split Aces) doesn't really matter, but of course, RSA is better than non-RSA.
LS is more important, for a counter, than S17. So if your options are either S17 or H17 w/ LS, pick the H17 /w LS game.
Other than penetration, I think LS is most important.
Something else that can be overlooked is ability to spread and heat. Some stores you can have huge spreads and get away with it. Other stores, not so much.
If you're serious about playing BJ and learning to count, I recommend buying CVCX and CVBJ (qfit.com). CVCX is a simulator -- it'll simulate the game you're playing (count system, rules, spread, penetration, etc.) to show you how much you should be making per hour in EV, your Risk of Ruin, what kind of a bankroll you need, etc. It's also useful because you can figure out what games and penetration levels are better than other games. For example, you might find a 75% penetration S17 DAS LS game with 6 decks or a 90% penetration H17 DAS with 6 decks -- you can figure out which one is better and which one you should be playing. Or maybe you have a 70% pen game and a 85% pen game, both equal except the 70% game you can spread 1-50, but the 85% pen game you can only spread 1-12 (because of heat / pit boss awareness / surveillance, etc.). One is better and you should be playing the better one. CVBJ is a practice software. You plug in your system (what count system you use, rules, spread, penetration, etc.) and it deals blackjack to you. It's about as real as it gets. It'll let you know if you're making mistakes, what they are, and how much they cost you.
September 8th, 2014 at 6:38:38 AM
permalink
Quote: TheMadSailorHello, I've been researching card counting for a while now (and by research I mean utilizing the Googly), and I was just wondering, does card counting still work today? I know that the "golden age" of card counting is undeniably over, but is it still possible, in this day and age, to beat the casinos? Also, can anyone tell me what system is best for counting at a multiple deck game? (I'm currently learning the Zen Count) And what rules should I look for or avoid? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
RS gave a pretty good in depth starter on counting. To sum up a couple things for your question: Yes, counting is still applicable and can help you to beat the casino's today. However, is it practical? Hardly... There's only a handful of people who count professionally as there's only a handful of people who truly understand what kind of a grind it is and that it's not some kind of get rich quick scheme. There's also a lot more to counting, correctly, than most people think going in. You learned a count system, great, you learned what rules you want even, great... Now you need to figure out your spread, bankroll, ploppy act, etc, etc. You need to learn Kelly Criteria. You need to learn other aspects of the game for longevity, such as rat holing, recognizing heat, etc, etc. This is where most beginners go "Eh, I know how to count now! I don't need to worry about those all that much, I'm ready to start making money!" when in fact they're more important than just learning a counting system.
I'm working on finishing a thread, Counting A-Z, which I'm hoping will be a good into for anyone just learning up to an intermediate level of play. I'll plan to post it by the end of this week. It should take you from knowing absolutely nothing, to at least knowing what you need to do/learn/etc.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
