Half penetration, 8 deck black jack, how much edge... but with a kicker....

Game is 8 decks, half penetration
spreads are 10-250, 15-300, 25-500, and 100-5k

But, here is the kicker:

I can always have an exact count
I know exactly how many cards have been played so I'll know exactly how far into the deck it is
I know how many aces, twos, threes through tens have been played
So I'll be able to play optimally know what is exactly left in the deck


How much of an edge can a person have in a game like this
even though the penetration is 50%, knowing exactly what is out has to be a huge edge, right?

So assuming a casino that will let you use an app at the table?

Sounds like it's online to me.

The game is probably beatable. You probably want separate counts for each playing decision. There is a chapter about this in Beyond Counting (although the indices that he developed were for 6 decks).

It's also worth pointing out that he said he stopped playing when he felt that he was probably being cheated. He didn't come out and say that it was online but it seems obvious to me.

Seems like a pretty awful game. Good luck with just a 1-20 spread. The 1-50 might work, but....it'll be one hell of a grind.

Quote: RS

Seems like a pretty awful game. Good luck with just a 1-20 spread. The 1-50 might work, but....it'll be one hell of a grind.

You'd have to jump-spread, of course. Bet 20 at any advantage.

I'm guessing that you'd have a slight edge. To be sure, you could check frequency charts. The game that Grosjean was talking about in Beyond Counting only dealt out 1/3 of the cards IIRC, and he still had an edge (it was only 6D so the playing variations were worth more, but the pen is a lot worse)

Your swings will be massive -- you'll need one hell of a bankroll. Probably not worth it.

Oh, you'd want to wong-out aggressively too. If the software allows you to wong out and immediately start a new shoe, that would be a big plus.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Sounds like it's online to me.

Axiom nailed most every aspect of the game. The only thing I'll mention is about 6-8 hours away from me there is a casino that's not allowed to have table games. So instead what they do is they have a blackjack tables, dealers, a PB's, but it's all electronic on screens. Each seat has it's own screen. You still buy in with the dealer and she credits your seat, you choose how much to bet, and play. They use an electronic deck, but it IS static, and I saw they cut off 50% pen. I want to say this was 6 decks though, but it could be 8... Even so, the same idea, and not online.

You'd actually WANT this to be online though. At the casino you might actually have someone watching you spread from 1-50 wildly and aggressively. It would be ridiculously easy to figure out what you're doing. Also, you'd have to buy in with the dealer for a TON of money to sustain a session of this wild betting. Lastly, to re-iterate Axiom's most important point, you'd have to have one hell of a bankroll to withstand the swings you'll see in a game like this. Overall, if you're willing to put that much effort in to a game where you have a slight edge, you're better off driving to another state if you have to and finding a beatable BJ game where you don't have to spread nearly as much.

Thanks for the replies everybody. Is this the Beyond Counting book you're talking about?

Does it really cost $1200?

Is is possible to leave the table at any point in the shoe. I can also sit out but it boots me after awhile, I'm not sure if it's timed or after a certain amount of hands that I don't play. I can then rejoin if someone doesn't snipe my seat, and continue to sit at that table until it boots me again.

Last night when I was playing I got a message that said "you have reached your daily/weekly limits, please contact your provider"

So I'm not sure if I have a maximum that I can risk or what it is.

I def cant' afford to play the 100-5k shoe, the 250 and 300 max is what I have been playing.


Thanks again everyone.

Quote: Pezzer

Thanks for the replies everybody. Is this the Beyond Counting book you're talking about?
http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Counting-Exploiting-Casino-Blackjack/dp/0910575177

Does it really cost $1200?

That is the book. $1200 sounds high -- according to my amazon history I paid $529.87 for my copy in November 2012. I guess that is almost two years ago so maybe it has become even more rare since then. Or maybe I got a good deal.