Is this beatable?

Hi all,

Suppose I've found an online game with these rules:

8 decks,50% penetration,dealer stands on any 17,double down on any 2 initial cards,no re-splitting allowed,only one card on split aces
no double down after splitting,insurance on dealers ace offered,Blackjack pays 3 to 2,insurance pays 2 to 1,tie hands is a push.

Will it be possible to obtain an edge by counting and wonging and is there a software which will allow me to enter card values and spit back the numbers?

Beatable? Yes.

Worth it? Likely not.

Quote: rawtuff

Suppose I've found an online game with these rules: ...

It does not matter what particular GAME rules you give us. If it is an ONLINE casino, then the most important thing is their PAYMENT rules.
Most online casinos seem to have one and only one payment rule: Don't pay nothing to nobody, never.

You can be wonging and bonging to your heart's content,,, you ain't the first one to think of it and you won't be the last one to try bringing in a fast computer with the right answers. They ain't paying all those other cheaters so why should they suddenly start to pay you?

Quote: rawtuff

is there a software which will allow me to enter card values and spit back the numbers?

Try this: http://www.bjstrat.net/cgi-bin/cdca.cgi

Quote: FleaStiff

It does not matter what particular GAME rules you give us. If it is an ONLINE casino, then the most important thing is their PAYMENT rules.
Most online casinos seem to have one and only one payment rule: Don't pay nothing to nobody, never.

You can be wonging and bonging to your heart's content,,, you ain't the first one to think of it and you won't be the last one to try bringing in a fast computer with the right answers. They ain't paying all those other cheaters so why should they suddenly start to pay you?

Thanks for the concern,but I should have mentioned that I'm well experienced with online casinos and sport betting sites(not to show off but I have accounts and have been playing sports for years on more sites than most of people here have even visited) and this one is OK and it will pay (at least at first).
I'm also aware of the possible outcomes of one such approach - although I plan to only bet the minimum of the lowest minimum tables my account wont last more than a month or at least I'll be backed off BJ - that's ok, I have methods to counteract and I don't care too much.

My interest at this time is only to try and figure if it will yield a positive game and try something I had long planing to.

Quote: VPRookie

Try this: http://www.bjstrat.net/cgi-bin/cdca.cgi

Thanks for the link,buddy :)

Quote: RS

Beatable? Yes.

Worth it? Likely not.

Why not?

AWFUL penetration means you'll be back-counting lots of tables and when you do wong in, you won't have many rounds to play before the shuffle.

What are table limits? What can you even get away with (betting amounts) ?

As said earlier, can you actually get your money out of your account?

Is the online casino trustworthy? Will they take your money because you're CC?

Quote: RS

AWFUL penetration means you'll be back-counting lots of tables and when you do wong in, you won't have many rounds to play before the shuffle.

I see.

Quote: RS

What are table limits? What can you even get away with (betting amounts) ?

I've been planing to bet minimum($5) only when the conditions are favorable.

Quote: RS

As said earlier, can you actually get your money out of your account?

Yes,for the most part.I'm kind of an expert in dealing with online casinos and betting high level account closure risk patterns(bonus hunting,arbs etc) and get away with it as much as possible.

Quote: RS

Is the online casino trustworthy? Will they take your money because you're CC?

It is trustworthy,otherwise I wouldn't even consider doing something like this.

They will try and take it if/when I'm caught as CC.But I do have experience and methods to counteract.

You're gonna wong in with a $5 bet? Either.....

A) You're gonna do this while counting all tables at the same time.
B) You know or are going to do something I don't know.
C) You're okay making like $0.02/hour.
D) You don't know what you're getting into.

Quote: RS

You're gonna wong in with a $5 bet? Either.....

A) You're gonna do this while counting all tables at the same time.
B) You know or are going to do something I don't know.
C) You're okay making like $0.02/hour.
D) You don't know what you're getting into.

Its B and D :).There will be some rebate and bonuses coming from the play AND I really have zero experience in playing BJ with advantage.
Have done some research but the $0.02/hour really doesn't sound as a good reward/risk/efforts ratio.The bonuses alone won't be THAT juicy.

Thanks for your input.

Hi Rawtuff,

Exactly the same rules as the online casinos I use. they did give me a good payoff when I signed up and immediately won £6k, so generally trustworthy. However, all these online casinos have a rule that basically says. "If we don't like you, we reserve the right to close your account and to keep all the money in it". It might seem unfair, or even illegal, but you are at their mercy absolutely.

I've use those tables to practice my counting, either while playing or while back counting. Some 90% or more of the time spent counting through a shoe, the true count is not favourable and it gets really boring. with so few low bet tables where seats can be had, there's VERY little opportunity to count multi tables to increase your chance of being in play. You are up against the fact that the low min tables are few and very busy, so if back counting and you do spot a good count, you might not even get a seat.

I HAVE observed a fellow player at a min bet table, at a quiet time. He played all day. It was absolutely crystal clear to me as an observer that he was card counting. He would flat bet at £5 for hours on end, playing almost perfect BS. When my practice backcount exceeded TC+2*, just about favourable I would observe that he would increase his bet from £5 to £500. When the shoe was shuffled, he would drop back to £5. He might as well have had a day-glow orange T-Shirt on with flashing flourescent sign saying "I'm a card counter, look Mr Casino, as I take your money" I spotted his behaviour the first time he went from £5 to £500 and that was without the benefit of the Casinos computers that have his entire betting history to programatically review.

Only by having such huge betting spread could he make profit enough in those VERY few +EV round that would cancel out the tedious hours on end playing -EV games at £5.

To place those big bets, he would have needed to maintain several £K in his online balance. At any time, the casino rules could see that seized and lost. That risk alone would make it not worthwhile to me.

>TC+3 was very very rare and would only persist for so few hands that it would be pretty soul destroying to wait for or to bet on.

So in summary, possible to beat, but only with quite high stakes and absurd amounts of patience and concentration.

Quote: rawtuff

and is there a software which will allow me to enter card values and spit back the numbers?

Yes. I wrote my own and tried it while learning to count. Trust me, it's super tedious and futile. E.g, it can take 5 hours of observing and counting before the number of tens in the hand would make insurance worthwhile.... and still you might not get a dealers Ace to try it with.

Quote: rawtuff

Its B and D :).There will be some rebate and bonuses coming ...The bonuses alone won't be THAT juicy.

Thanks for your input.

Check out the bonus terms. Do you by any chance have to wager 300 times that bonus before you can withdraw one penny of your cashier balance?

Been there, got the t-shirt.


And actually did beat the casino that day turning their free play into £6k withdrawn on the same day. But that's another story.

I know some people are just trying to help. But people seem to be almost hateful anytime someone mentions online gambling. Someone who played online often would surly have extra time to spend on this forum. Bovada is NOT the only reputable online casino.

I'm not saying this is the case in this guys situation but, since he mentioned betting sports and he was not concerned about payment. People must understand there are places online (if you bet enough) where you deal with a bookie type situation, They give you credit and everything is done in cash. They WILL Pay you, they cant afford to get a bad reputation, since most of this is done via referral, I guess you might eventually get backed off.

Quote: AxelWolf

I know some people are just trying to help. But people seem to be almost hateful anytime someone mentions online gambling.

:) hope i'm not one considered hateful.
If i'm not mistaken, the OP is on the same path that i already explored. I'd be willing to take part of that to PM where he and I could compare notes privately.

Quote: AxelWolf

I know some people are just trying to help. But people seem to be almost hateful anytime someone mentions online gambling. Someone who played online often would surly have extra time to spend on this forum. Bovada is NOT the only reputable online casino.

I'm not saying this is the case in this guys situation but, since he mentioned betting sports and he was not concerned about payment. People must understand there are places online (if you bet enough) where you deal with a bookie type situation, They give you credit and everything is done in cash. They WILL Pay you, they cant afford to get a bad reputation, since most of this is done via referral, I guess you might eventually get backed off.

Indeed.There are plenty of reputable online casinos/sports betting sites with which one one can really got some nice offers.I believe most of them are restricting US citizens though.Maybe that's why "online casino" sounds like a dirty word for some of the members here.
I wasn't surprised by the expressed doubts about getting payment though, knowing upfront the majority of the response will be from US guys.I'm thankful for all inputs :)

Quote: rawtuff

Hi all,

Suppose I've found an online game with these rules:

8 decks,50% penetration,dealer stands on any 17,double down on any 2 initial cards,no re-splitting allowed,only one card on split aces
no double down after splitting,insurance on dealers ace offered,Blackjack pays 3 to 2,insurance pays 2 to 1,tie hands is a push.

Will it be possible to obtain an edge by counting and wonging and is there a software which will allow me to enter card values and spit back the numbers?

sounds like you found a live dealer game