$10k and 40 Hours

I'll be in Vegas later this year for a week or so, and I'll have about 40 hours to hit the BJ tables. I will have a car. With a $10k trip bankroll, what would be your plan of attack? What games would you play and how would you play them?

Quote: vegaskid74

I'll be in Vegas later this year for a week or so, and I'll have about 40 hours to hit the BJ tables. I will have a car. With a $10k trip bankroll, what would be your plan of attack? What games would you play and how would you play them?

R U going to be counting?

Quote: AxelWolf

R U going to be counting?

Yes, I didn't make that very clear. I use UBZ II in running count mode for pitch games, and I true count it for bet sizing and wonging purposes in shoe games.

With a bankroll that small, you're going to have a tough time getting good rules. You could probably attempt to play the good MLife S17 games, but with $25 mins, you're going to run a pretty high RoR. Since it's a trip bankroll, that might be okay with you. It would be kind of a "hail mary" situation. If your bankroll is replenishable, I would probably go this route.

If not or you don't want a high RoR for the trip, then you're basically going to be looking for decent $10 games. You can pretty much forget about S17 (maybe a couple tables here or there...), but there are playable shoe games at $10 around Vegas. Probably some playable $10 DD games, but the more I think about it the more common it is for a lot of DD games to be $25 mins too.

I only make it to Vegas 1-2 times per year, so take my advice with a grain of salt. kewlj would probably have some good advice for you on game locations, if he has the time and inclination to share it with you.

My general plan of attack, and it's failed only a single time and that was because I was chasing losses like the biggest uber-ploppy you ever saw, is to divide trip bankroll by 150 and use that as min bet, for shoe games anyway (the variance is higher in DD games). That makes it a $50 table. If you are playing with a true "trip bankroll" (which means you won't cry if you lose it) that will be fine. RoR is around 5%. Spread 1-8 (or 1-10 if the count gets REALLY high); you'll be fine.

With only 40 hours, betting $10 min will get you nowhere and you won't sink nearly deep enough to make you feel it was worth it. Plus, you'll be surrounded by people who will drive you nuts while slowing down the game immensely.

$25 is the better choice if you want to spread 1-16 or want to stick exclusively to DD games. But honestly, with that BR, focus on finding the best conditions, even if the min bet is a little higher or there are more decks in play. Find a table by yourself, a quick dealer, a sloppy shuffle, and the best rules.... Go get 'em.

Where are you staying, where will you be spending most of your non gaming time, and how long will your average session be? If your sessions are short, you'll have to play near where you stay. If you're on a day, off a day, you should travel to the best game you can find, I can't help you with counter friendly places, but you can find amazing games downtown and off strip for $10 minimum.

Quote: ahiromu

Where are you staying, where will you be spending most of your non gaming time, and how long will your average session be? If your sessions are short, you'll have to play near where you stay. If you're on a day, off a day, you should travel to the best game you can find, I can't help you with counter friendly places, but you can find amazing games downtown and off strip for $10 minimum.

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I'll be staying downtown, but I'll have a car so anywhere in the valley is in play. Any thoughts Kewlj?

Quote: arcticfun

My general plan of attack, and it's failed only a single time and that was because I was chasing losses like the biggest uber-ploppy you ever saw, is to divide trip bankroll by 150 and use that as min bet, for shoe games anyway (the variance is higher in DD games). That makes it a $50 table. If you are playing with a true "trip bankroll" (which means you won't cry if you lose it) that will be fine. RoR is around 5%. Spread 1-8 (or 1-10 if the count gets REALLY high); you'll be fine.

With only 40 hours, betting $10 min will get you nowhere and you won't sink nearly deep enough to make you feel it was worth it. Plus, you'll be surrounded by people who will drive you nuts while slowing down the game immensely.

$25 is the better choice if you want to spread 1-16 or want to stick exclusively to DD games. But honestly, with that BR, focus on finding the best conditions, even if the min bet is a little higher or there are more decks in play. Find a table by yourself, a quick dealer, a sloppy shuffle, and the best rules.... Go get 'em.

To get much out of a 1-8 spread in a typical shoe game I'd need to wong out pretty aggressively, no? Say at -1 or -2 at most?

Quote: AcesAndEights

With a bankroll that small, you're going to have a tough time getting good rules. You could probably attempt to play the good MLife S17 games, but with $25 mins, you're going to run a pretty high RoR. Since it's a trip bankroll, that might be okay with you. It would be kind of a "hail mary" situation. If your bankroll is replenishable, I would probably go this route.

If not or you don't want a high RoR for the trip, then you're basically going to be looking for decent $10 games. You can pretty much forget about S17 (maybe a couple tables here or there...), but there are playable shoe games at $10 around Vegas. Probably some playable $10 DD games, but the more I think about it the more common it is for a lot of DD games to be $25 mins too.

I only make it to Vegas 1-2 times per year, so take my advice with a grain of salt. kewlj would probably have some good advice for you on game locations, if he has the time and inclination to share it with you.

Do you have a ballpark figure of what the RoR would be for a play all 1-16 spread in a typical (75% pen?) Vegas 6D game ($25 unit)? I wish I had the software to sim it myself, but I don't. I'm guessing if I wong out at -1 or -2 and cut the spread to 1-8 or so the RoR would plummet, but I'm not sure what it would be. Also, are all of the MGM properties decent or are some better than others? Thanks again for all of the help.

Quote: vegaskid74

Quote: AcesAndEights

With a bankroll that small, you're going to have a tough time getting good rules. You could probably attempt to play the good MLife S17 games, but with $25 mins, you're going to run a pretty high RoR. Since it's a trip bankroll, that might be okay with you. It would be kind of a "hail mary" situation. If your bankroll is replenishable, I would probably go this route.

If not or you don't want a high RoR for the trip, then you're basically going to be looking for decent $10 games. You can pretty much forget about S17 (maybe a couple tables here or there...), but there are playable shoe games at $10 around Vegas. Probably some playable $10 DD games, but the more I think about it the more common it is for a lot of DD games to be $25 mins too.

I only make it to Vegas 1-2 times per year, so take my advice with a grain of salt. kewlj would probably have some good advice for you on game locations, if he has the time and inclination to share it with you.

Do you have a ballpark figure of what the RoR would be for a play all 1-16 spread in a typical (75% pen?) Vegas 6D game ($25 unit)? I wish I had the software to sim it myself, but I don't. I'm guessing if I wong out at -1 or -2 and cut the spread to 1-8 or so the RoR would plummet, but I'm not sure what it would be. Also, are all of the MGM properties decent or are some better than others? Thanks again for all of the help.

I don't have the numbers handy for that exact situation. You should really get the QFIT software, it is worth the money.

Bellagio, Aria, MGM Grand, and Mirage all have S17 games on the main floor. The minimums are usually between $25 and $100 depending on the time of day and the property (I've never seen a game at Aria for less than $50 min). Monte Carlo and I believe NYNY (maybe Mandalay Bay too?) also have S17 games in their high limit room.

CVCX and CBJN are well worth it.

Quote: RS

CVCX and CBJN are well worth it.

CBJN's worthiness depends on your location...I have found it to be woefully inaccurate for some regions (including my local casinos). It does tell you how recently each casino's report has been updated, so that's good. But for me at least, the last time I bought a report, I did my own scouting and found it to be really wrong.

Quote: AcesAndEights

Quote: vegaskid74

Quote: AcesAndEights

With a bankroll that small, you're going to have a tough time getting good rules. You could probably attempt to play the good MLife S17 games, but with $25 mins, you're going to run a pretty high RoR. Since it's a trip bankroll, that might be okay with you. It would be kind of a "hail mary" situation. If your bankroll is replenishable, I would probably go this route.

If not or you don't want a high RoR for the trip, then you're basically going to be looking for decent $10 games. You can pretty much forget about S17 (maybe a couple tables here or there...), but there are playable shoe games at $10 around Vegas. Probably some playable $10 DD games, but the more I think about it the more common it is for a lot of DD games to be $25 mins too.

I only make it to Vegas 1-2 times per year, so take my advice with a grain of salt. kewlj would probably have some good advice for you on game locations, if he has the time and inclination to share it with you.

Do you have a ballpark figure of what the RoR would be for a play all 1-16 spread in a typical (75% pen?) Vegas 6D game ($25 unit)? I wish I had the software to sim it myself, but I don't. I'm guessing if I wong out at -1 or -2 and cut the spread to 1-8 or so the RoR would plummet, but I'm not sure what it would be. Also, are all of the MGM properties decent or are some better than others? Thanks again for all of the help.

I don't have the numbers handy for that exact situation. You should really get the QFIT software, it is worth the money.

Bellagio, Aria, MGM Grand, and Mirage all have S17 games on the main floor. The minimums are usually between $25 and $100 depending on the time of day and the property (I've never seen a game at Aria for less than $50 min). Monte Carlo and I believe NYNY (maybe Mandalay Bay too?) also have S17 games in their high limit room.

Thanks!

I've never seen the minimum in the high limit room under $200 at Mandalay Bay. I've also never seen more than 2 people playing there at the same time.