AC surrender insanity
When I am there, I always ask for it.
So, the last time I was there the following two scenarios happened:
#1--I sat down and awaited the end of a shoe as the players there had requested No Mid Shoe entry. As the dealer shuffled and the floor person took my player's card, I asked for the SURRENDER sign. The floor person proceeded to inform me she would have to ask the other players at the table if they agreed or not with allowing SURRENDER. since they were there at the table before me, they had a right to veto. they had been betting between 200 and 800 per hand. They asked what SURRENDER was, even asking if it was a "side bet". Once it was explained to them, they stated they did not want it at the table as they would not use it and if I decided to SURRENDER a hand, it could mess up the flow of the cards.
This cued my exit;
#2--I was at a table by myself with SURRENDER and another gentleman came in. He refused to give a player's card and even gave three different names to the dealer, floor and waitress. I figured he was counting. a few hands in I had a K,6 versus dealer 10 and I SURRENDERED. His eyes lit up and he excitedly exclaimed "they have SURRENDER?!?". From this point forward he SURRENDERED every 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16 versus a dealer 10 or Ace.
I played out the shoe and left. Could this have been a cover play for the guy that first shoe???
Thoughts...?
2. He was dumb, but I wouldn't have left over it.
Quote: PokeraddictI don't get this at all. They either have surrender or they don't, why can other players veto it? It does not change anything and it is none of their business what I do with my money. What's next, can't hit your 12 against the dealer's two unless the table agrees because you might change the cards?
Apparently they realiZe that offering it full time lessens the house edge and, if they allow. Veto power to those already at the table, they realize most AC players have never played with SURRENDER and will be wary of it.
I agree they should have at least one full time SURRENDER game.
Quote: DeucekiesIf you're playing alone with the surrender in place and someone sits down, can they demand it be taken away?
Nope - can only be vetoed if they were there first or all sat down together
Quote: beachbumbabsI have never heard of a pit putting a game rule up to a vote. Seems chicken sh&* to me that they don't take responsibility for their own rules; they're just perpetuating the stupidity out there. Wow.
That's not difficult to do in AC :)
Quote: beachbumbabsI have never heard of a pit putting a game rule up to a vote. Seems chicken sh&* to me that they don't take responsibility for their own rules; they're just perpetuating the stupidity out there. Wow.
I wonder if they'll try this trick with the S17 rule.
"Stay on soft 17? No way! I want the dealer to bust!"
Kidding, kidding.
On an unrelated note on a Fri night about HALF the games at Harrahs were BJ pays 6:5 games. Not in a party pit either. Main floor all over the place. Sometimes right next to 3:2 games. The ploppies didn't know the difference. I weep for the future.
Quote: djatc#1 - actually very smart on the pit's behalf. make the person who wants it to get the OK from other players, which will probably end up not going through due to the stupidity of ploppy logic. This discourages some smart players to not ask ever, and the pit can determine a knowledgeable player before he puts a bet in.
So now we have some new vernacular entering the realm of AP's. "Ploppy logic." I like it. Very descriptive. Good job, djatc.
Quote: vendman1I weep for the future.
Your Abe Froman....the Sausage King of Chicago?
I'm not calling the OP a liar, but I find this hard to believe. How can something like this get approved by the gaming commission?
The rules of the game are determined by the players???
I call B.S.- sorry.
Quote: HowManyIs this a joke?
I'm not calling the OP a liar, but I find this hard to believe. How can something like this get approved by the gaming commission?
The rules of the game are determined by the players???
I call B.S.- sorry.
Nice of you to use profanity.
THIS IS EASILY VERIFIABLE BY ANYONE WHO GOES TO
GN AC. Why would I make this up???
Quote: aceofspadesNice of you to use profanity.
THIS IS EASILY VERIFIABLE BY ANYONE WHO GOES TO
GN AC. Why would I make this up???
Anyone who thinks there isn't odd stuff that goes on in AC hasn't been to AC. I can easily believe this.
Quote: BozYour Abe Froman....the Sausage King of Chicago?
Quote: aceofspadesNice of you to use profanity.
THIS IS EASILY VERIFIABLE BY ANYONE WHO GOES TO
GN AC. Why would I make this up???
Profanity? What?
And, chill out dude.
If this is true, do other players also get to decide how you play 16 vs 10? Just asking.
Quote: HowManyProfanity? What?
And, chill out dude.
If this is true, do other players also get to decide how you play 16 vs 10? Just asking.
Yup all decisions at the table are by committee - you figured it out.
Quote: vendman1I don't go to the GN. But was in AC a couple of weeks ago and talked to several pit critters, at both Revel and Harrah's, about surrender. According to them it's coming to AC soon. But probably only at $25 and up games. They said it requires regulatory approval but that they feel that's a formality and that "every place in town" has applied for it. It probably wouldn't cost them much most players don't use surrender, or even understand what it is anyway. We've all heard stories of the AC casinos giving better rules to high rollers. But letting the players vote seems ridiculous.
On an unrelated note on a Fri night about HALF the games at Harrahs were BJ pays 6:5 games. Not in a party pit either. Main floor all over the place. Sometimes right next to 3:2 games. The ploppies didn't know the difference. I weep for the future.
I saw the Harrah's tables just as you described them. They are 8 deck H17. I counted a good dozen on Mother's Day Weekend.
Golden Nugget must keep changing the surrender policy. On that same weekend I asked about surrender two different times with two different crews and was told absolutely not at any betting level.
Quote: BozYour Abe Froman....the Sausage King of Chicago?
That's right...and I demand to be seated immediately. :)
Quote: HowManyGee, I don't know.
Probably the same reason you made up all that other crap.
You can't bullshit a bullshitter.
Were you spoiled by your parents? You have a severe case of "look at me" disease. And when things don't go your way, you pout like a child.
Anyone know the difference between a puppy and aceofspades?
Eventually a puppy stops whining.
HowMany, why are u on this site, other than to harass people?
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Quote: vendman1I don't go to the GN. But was in AC a couple of weeks ago and talked to several pit critters, at both Revel and Harrah's, about surrender. According to them it's coming to AC soon. But probably only at $25 and up games. They said it requires regulatory approval but that they feel that's a formality and that "every place in town" has applied for it. It probably wouldn't cost them much most players don't use surrender, or even understand what it is anyway. We've all heard stories of the AC casinos giving better rules to high rollers. But letting the players vote seems ridiculous.
It's been mentioned before, and I agree, that casinos would probably make MORE money by offering a theoretically advantageous rule like surrender. It seems like you have 3 kinds of people who take advantage of surrender when offered:
1) Never surrender (I would say the majority)
2) Surrender way too often (15v9, 14, 13 vs. 10s and aces, etc etc).
3) Actually use BS surrender (tiny minority).
I would guess they make more money off of group #2 than they lose on #3.
Quote: AcesAndEightsIt's been mentioned before, and I agree, that casinos would probably make MORE money by offering a theoretically advantageous rule like surrender. It seems like you have 3 kinds of people who take advantage of surrender when offered:
1) Never surrender (I would say the majority)
2) Surrender way too often (15v9, 14, 13 vs. 10s and aces, etc etc).
3) Actually use BS surrender (tiny minority).
I would guess they make more money off of group #2 than they lose on #3.
Agreed. 100%. Whenever I play at a casino with surrender, most of the other patrons look at me as if I had two heads whenever I do it.
Quote: vendman1Agreed. 100%. Whenever I play at a casino with surrender, most of the other patrons look at me as if I had two heads whenever I do it.
They love Corey Hart
Quote: AxelWolfIf you don't believe he is telling the truth about this, you should avoid his vegas vacation thread. I have no doubt he is telling you truth.
I have a feeling HowMany will be avoiding every thread pretty soon once the nuke button gets pressed.
Quote: HowMany
Gee, I don't know.
Probably the same reason you made up all that other crap.
You can't bullshit a bullshitter.
Were you spoiled by your parents? You have a severe case of "look at me" disease. And when things don't go your way, you pout like a child.
Anyone know the difference between a puppy and aceofspades?
Eventually a puppy stops whining.
Got edited to THIS:
Quote: HowManyProfanity? What?
And, chill out dude.
If this is true, do other players also get to decide how you play 16 vs 10? Just asking.
7 days for profanity and multiple insults over 2 posts, mitigated to 3 days by your having the good sense to tone it down (along with the one leading into this) to mild insult and sarcasm. Unfortunately for you, multiple flags/complaints were lodged before your edits.
Quote: FortalezoThat's a positive confirmation by a female AP. Ace, another AP did post what you posted years ago in another bj forum. A few weeks later after her posting, she was shitlisted. She's halfshoed. Her comp dollars were frozen. Her blackcard was "blocked"; thus, she had to pay $949 for her "free room on Saturday", the room-comp was revoked retroactively. She even had to pay $5 for parking.
WOW really!
Quote: beachbumbabsApparently, THIS:
Got edited to THIS:
7 days for profanity and multiple insults over 2 posts, mitigated to 3 days by your having the good sense to tone it down (along with the one leading into this) to mild insult and sarcasm. Unfortunately for you, multiple flags/complaints were lodged before your edits.
WOW hmmmmm - it was only upon his post being flagged that he edited it - he is not sorry - he is sorry he got caught. Why mitigate?
Oops. Now they're not.
Why did you leave? Do you believe that the way this person played had an effect on your results?Quote: aceofspades#2--I was at a table by myself with SURRENDER and another gentleman came in. He refused to give a player's card and even gave three different names to the dealer, floor and waitress. I figured he was counting. a few hands in I had a K,6 versus dealer 10 and I SURRENDERED. His eyes lit up and he excitedly exclaimed "they have SURRENDER?!?". From this point forward he SURRENDERED every 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16 versus a dealer 10 or Ace.
I played out the shoe and left. Could this have been a cover play for the guy that first shoe???
Thoughts...?
Why color up? Why does this upset you?Quote: aceofspades, different threadJust sat down even and it was 8:05 so there should be no dealer switch and I even asked the dealer if she was leaving on a break soon. She said no and shuffled. As soon as she was about to deal the cards she gets a tap on the shoulder for a break. So the dealer turned to the other dealer and told her she is not set for a break yet--I said if they are switching dealers on me and it's not even a break then I am punching table--so the pit boss tells the second dealer to go check the schedule--I said when they did this to me yeaterday the dealer got blackjacks the first three of four hands and I started to color up--
There are many beliefs that blackjack players have that are false beliefs. They have nothing to do with beating the game and have nothing to do with the edge the player experiences. Among these false beliefs are that the following are in some sense "bad," in that they portend an increase in the likelihood of losing going forward:
1. Players entering or leaving the game.
2. Dealer changes.
3. The player at third base (or any position) not playing right.
4. Multiple dealer blackjacks in a shoe.
5. Environmental issues (e.g. "coolers" or something else designed to cause bad luck).
6. Losing several consecutive hands in a shoe.
7. Anything else that affects the "flow."
There is no "flow." There are many reasons to leave a table, but players playing "wrong," or a sense of ill fate after a dealer change, are not among the reasons that are based on fact.
What am I missing? In 6/5 both numbers are bigger. Isn't that the better game ? ? ?
Quote: teliotWhy did you leave? Do you believe that the way this person played had an effect on your results?Quote: aceofspades#2--I was at a table by myself with SURRENDER and another gentleman came in. He refused to give a player's card and even gave three different names to the dealer, floor and waitress. I figured he was counting. a few hands in I had a K,6 versus dealer 10 and I SURRENDERED. His eyes lit up and he excitedly exclaimed "they have SURRENDER?!?". From this point forward he SURRENDERED every 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16 versus a dealer 10 or Ace.
I played out the shoe and left. Could this have been a cover play for the guy that first shoe???
Thoughts...?
Yup exactly!!! You guys are the world's greatest detectives. I have posted many times about other people's play does not affect in the long-term so yes indeed I did believe his actions affected my play and I ran from the situation after a shoe instead of leaving immediately.
Quote: aceofspades
Just sat down even and it was 8:05 so there should be no dealer switch and I even asked the dealer if she was leaving on a break soon. She said no and shuffled. As soon as she was about to deal the cards she gets a tap on the shoulder for a break. So the dealer turned to the other dealer and told her she is not set for a break yet--I said if they are switching dealers on me and it's not even a break then I am punching table--so the pit boss tells the second dealer to go check the schedule--I said when they did this to me yeaterday the dealer got blackjacks the first three of four hands and I started to color up—
Quote: teliotThere are many beliefs that blackjack players have that are false beliefs. They have nothing to do with beating the game and have nothing to do with the edge the player experiences. Among these false beliefs are that the following are in some sense "bad," in that they portend an increase in the likelihood of losing going forward:
1. Players entering or leaving the game.
2. Dealer changes.
3. The player at third base (or any position) not playing right.
4. Multiple dealer blackjacks in a shoe.
5. Environmental issues (e.g. "coolers" or something else designed to cause bad luck).
6. Losing several consecutive hands in a shoe.
7. Anything else that affects the "flow."
There is no "flow." There are many reasons to leave a table, but players playing "wrong," or a sense of ill fate after a dealer change, are not among the reasons that are based on fact.
So you find it normal that on numerous occasions the dealers went on "break" on off-times? Not as a way to counter any supposed advantages or annoy the players?
I realize you all hate me here and believe I am a non-issue for casinos.
However, I never see or hear any trip reports from any of the AP's here. IS it because you guys are making millions and cannot even give a hint—then why post at all?
You are all coming across as theoreticians rather than practitioners.
If you give me your address and promise to read it (all of it), I will send you a free copy of my book on blackjack (or you can buy one on Amazon). I think it is a great book for you, given everything I know about what you know and think about the game. It is meant for the recreational blackjack player who wants to take the next step into profitability. It is not an advanced text on card counting, it is not meant for the professional, but it does cover the basics of High/Low. It has a chapter on blackjack mythology. You will have to send me an email if you want a copy, I don't do PM's. I am easy enough to track down via Google.Quote: aceofspadesHowever, I never see or hear any trip reports from any of the AP's here. IS it because you guys are making millions and cannot even give a hint—then why post at all? You are all coming across as theoreticians rather than practitioners.
Quote: aceofspadesSo you find it normal that on numerous occasions the dealers went on "break" on off-times? Not as a way to counter any supposed advantages or annoy the players?
I realize you all hate me here and believe I am a non-issue for casinos.
However, I never see or hear any trip reports from any of the AP's here. IS it because you guys are making millions and cannot even give a hint—then why post at all?
You are all coming across as theoreticians rather than practitioners.
How does a dealer change mess up your advantage? They don't know what cards are coming.
Quote: Lemieux66How does a dealer change mess up your advantage? They don't know what cards are coming.
I am saying it is a way to annoy the player and get them 'out of the zone' — so, if they wanted to switch dealers on you after every hand, and burn a card - that would be ok (and do not state you know the count because each card taken out will not be shown to you)
Burn cards are unseen cards and are treated the same as cards behind the cut card.Quote: aceofspadesI am saying it is a way to annoy the player and get them 'out of the zone' — so, if they wanted to switch dealers on you after every hand, and burn a card - that would be ok (and do not state you know the count because each card taken out will not be shown to you)
You are all missing the point in that it is done as a nuisance to the player
It looks like you are passing on the free book offer. If you change your mind, get in touch.Quote: aceofspadesSo you would play at the table where they change dealers and burn a card after every hand…
Quote: teliotIt looks like you are passing on the free book offer. If you change your mind, get in touch.
Despite all the offers of free advice and books, I will not take nor listen to any of them at this point. It is no lounger worth my time to post my forays into the blackjack world on this site…you have all taken the joy therefrom.
Adios.
Again, if you want a copy of my book, just be in touch. It is the perfect book for you in more ways than just its blackjack content.Quote: aceofspadesDespite all the offers of free advice and books, I will not take nor listen to any of them at this point.
Quote: aceofspadesI am saying it is a way to annoy the player and get them 'out of the zone' — so, if they wanted to switch dealers on you after every hand, and burn a card - that would be ok (and do not state you know the count because each card taken out will not be shown to you)
If you aren't counting what zone is there? I'm not sure counting is a zone either.
