Random blackjack musings from Vegas

Just returned from a 6 night stay in Vegas. Played mostly blackjack (low stakes, usually $10 tables with a few $25 S17 sessions thrown in). For the carny games, I played some 3 card poker and Crazy 4 Poker and PH in the "Pleasure Pit" because my buddy wanted to, and who doesn't love their Pleasure Pit?? (Also, their pleasure pit has muscular men dealers now along with the pretty girls. However, the sexy dancers are all still women).

I didn't do a whole trip report, just thought I'd share some random observations and a couple stories.

Ballys - The rumors are true. Ballys has a new "high limit" room with two blackjack tables and a baccarat table. High limit is in quotes there because I was there twice and the minimums were always $25.

Rules on their blackjack: 3-2, S17, six deck shoe, DAS, RSA, surrender allowed. Basically ties for the best shoe game Vegas has to offer.

They have a 3-2 double deck game there as well. I do not know the exact rules, but it is definitely S17.

I played two sessions there. First session was great. Couldn't lose. Second session sucked.

The dealers were always friendly and it was always dead in there. So if you're looking for a great game at $25 a hand, head to Ballys.


Bellagio - Absolutely my favorite place to play blackjack. There is not one single 6-5 game in their casino, and they will always have a few $10 tables open, even at the busiest of times. I played there the most out of anywhere (while I stayed at NYNY for three nights and the Aria for three nights).

Their low limit games are all CSMs in the evening and at night, but those don't bother me at all.

Dealers at the Bellagio can be very hit and miss. However, I have a few I really like. One older woman named Mabel is very good. Helpful with the newbs who don't know what they're doing (I even saw her suggest to a newbie that they could surrender their 16 against a 10, for some reason most dealers hate surrender and I was pleased that she was suggesting the proper play). She also has a very dry sense of humor that I like. One man at first base wanted to give me a high five at third base and he reached over the table. She said in her most polite voice that if he ever did that again she'd murder him and he'd be a corpse before he was back in his seat.

I had one session there with a CRAZY dealer whose name I can't remember. She has a thick Jersey accent. She was a blast. If you've gambled at the Bellagio before you've probably heard her and her table screaming in the background. From what I gathered, most of the pit bosses hate her except for one woman pit boss who she usually works with. That pit boss really seems to egg her on.

My favorite moment was when she was really riled up and entertaining the table, she was showing a face card, and she accidentally peeked at the card the wrong way (as if it was an ace) and saw a face card. She goes "Oh I'm sorry, I have a blackjack." She flips over the hole card and she is showing a queen for a 20. We all break out laughing. The woman pit boss is behind her the whole time to witness all of this and she starts laughing hysterically. Two of the players had 18s, two had 16s. Everyone surrendered.

I played a few sessions of $25 blackjack at their S17 shoe games during the day. That was hit and miss for me. Couldn't get anything going. Think I lost $200 total from all the $25 games.

One morning I was playing at a $25 S17 shoe game there with one other guy. A third guy sits down and asks for a 2k marker. He starts playing two hands at about $100 each and the pit boss says, "We're making this a black table, but you guys can still play greens." So she makes the minimum $100. Then this random foreign woman walks by and just places a $100 bet without sitting down, wins, and leaves. The guy who got the marker was pissed that she would just do that without asking.

After a little while she comes back and does it again. I see the pit boss look at the woman, shake her head, and mouth "unbelievable." The foreign woman then criticizes another guy at the table for splitting his nines against a 6. I told her very firmly, "That is the RIGHT play." She didn't attempt to argue.

A few hands later she comes back again and places another bet. Marker guy is pissed. He tells her to go to another table (literally every table around us was empty). She says no she wants this one. They go back and forth for a little bit. Pit boss comes over (she is sympathetic with us). She says the woman has every right to play, but we can all hold our bets back while she does. That is what we do. Dealer shows a 5, woman is dealt a crappy hand. She waves it off. Dealer pulls a 21 out of nowhere. The woman is PISSED. She leaves for good. We all laughed.


Monte Carlo - I have a soft spot for Monte Carlo. A lot of their tables are 6-5, but their "main" pit (the one that is always open, even at dead times) is all 3-2.

Wednesday afternoon I decided to play a bit there. I play heads up with a dealer for a bit and am getting nowhere. Move to another table with one other guy.

I sit down at the table that has one other guy and start playing. Other guy gets PISSED that I didn't ask him if I could join in the middle of the shoe (the shoe had barely started). He keeps repeating to the dealer, "He didn't ask. That's rude. He's rude. He didn't ask." He definitely has something wrong in his head. He keeps showing animosity towards me, I just ignore him. He is dealt Ace/Ace against a dealer's 9. He has no money left to split them. He says, "you didn't wait to join, I'm gonna make you wait." He gets up to go to the ATM.

I was dealt a 15. Pit boss comes over so dealer can explain why the guy randomly stormed off in the middle of the hand. I ask the pit boss if I can surrender my 15 and get the heck away from that table. He is really friendly and lets me take back my bet and leave, saying that that other guy is a nut job. I move to another table and start playing with a guy who is also from my neck of the woods in Detroit.

Maybe 15 minutes later I hear a commotion and look up to see some big muscle biker guy BEATING THE CRAP out of the nut job. A woman is standing next to them crying hysterically. Apparently the nut job insulted biker guy's wife when she tried to sit down. There is a big scuffle. Pit bosses intervene. The biker keeps threatening him, saying "Let's go outside!" Security comes and they take the nut job away to the cage to cash out, yet the biker guy is allowed to stay. I call that Vegas justice.

After everything calmed down I hear another man say, "If he said that to my wife, you wouldn't need security. He'd be DEAD."

Some good stories there. I can't believe they let the biker guy stay, even if the other guy may have deserved the beating.

Also, where was the cheapest S17 game you played? Was it the $25 game at Bally's?

Quote:

They have a 3-2 double deck game there as well. I do not know the exact rules, but it is definitely S17.

Are you sure the Bally's DD $25 game was S17? When I surveyed it about three weeks ago it was H17. Only the two shoe games were S17.

The Bally shoe had RSA? You played it and know that for sure? When I asked them they told me no but I didn't play it.

Quote: Pokeraddict

Are you sure the Bally's DD $25 game was S17? When I surveyed it about three weeks ago it was H17. Only the two shoe games were S17.

The Bally shoe had RSA? You played it and know that for sure? When I asked them they told me no but I didn't play it.

These were the two games in the high limit section. Yes the shoe had RSA.

Now you're making me doubt myself but I'm pretty sure the DD game up there was S17.

On the main floor everything was H17,

Quote: tringlomane

Some good stories there. I can't believe they let the biker guy stay, even if the other guy may have deserved the beating.

Also, where was the cheapest S17 game you played? Was it the $25 game at Bally's?

I played $25 S17 games at Aria, Bellagio, and Ballys.

They disappear quickly at Aria in the early afternoon. Bellagio keeps them at $25 longer. And as far as I can tell they're $25 all day at Ballys.

Great thread do give hindsight Las Vegas best games. How about heat?

Quote: ams288

One morning I was playing at a $25 S17 shoe game there with one other guy. A third guy sits down and asks for a 2k marker. He starts playing two hands at about $100 each and the pit boss says, "We're making this a black table, but you guys can still play greens." So she makes the minimum $100. Then this random foreign woman walks by and just places a $100 bet without sitting down, wins, and leaves. The guy who got the marker was pissed that she would just do that without asking.

I'm kind of a beginning counter, so is this really a big deal? There's a lot on this site about wonging in/out, so is it rude to ever wong in mid-shoe without asking everyone at the table if it's ok?

Quote: malgorium

I'm kind of a beginning counter, so is this really a big deal? There's a lot on this site about wonging in/out, so is it rude to ever wong in mid-shoe without asking everyone at the table if it's ok?

You're allowed to do it - as the pit boss stated. But you're likely to piss the table off - especially at a high limit table.

It's mostly superstitious players you'll piss off. They think you're "changing" the cards.

Quote: ams288

You're allowed to do it - as the pit boss stated. But you're likely to piss the table off - especially at a high limit table.

oh ok well i'm just starting out so i'm just a redchipper. i suppose i should still ask next time i wong in...

Quote: ams288

These were the two games in the high limit section. Yes the shoe had RSA.

Now you're making me doubt myself but I'm pretty sure the DD game up there was S17.

On the main floor everything was H17,

ams288 - no matter what—members on the boards here will question anything you say in a trip report.

Quote: malgorium

oh ok well i'm just starting out so i'm just a redchipper. i suppose i should still ask next time i wong in...

And if the count is good and they say no? Are you going to just not play?

Quote: aceofspades

ams288 - no matter what—members on the boards here will question anything you say in a trip report.

You don't say. Lol

That scenario of making an empty table $25 and then raising it as soon as a couple players start playing is common. The common wisdom is that players like to play at a table with other players (except of course AP's). The Industry used to use paid shills to keep empty tables "open". By letting the first few players play lower limits, they are now acting as the shills.

Here's what my experience has taught me: HL rooms have better games....but they are severely 'hawked'. If you are using any kind of spread, you are inviting trouble. Sometimes I walk by a HL room and see no one playing. Usually several dealers at empty tables and an obscene number of pit folks standing around. If I were to sit down and play, I would have 4 or 5 pairs of eyeballs on me and that's before we even consider anyone looking from above. That is too hot for me. lol.

Now, the OP, didn't mention using a spread and even spoke of playing CSM, so I assume he isn't counting and spreading. In that situation, the HL rooms could be just what your looking for. And even what I am looking for. Keep all those eyes (including surveillance) focused on the non AP guy in HL room. I'll play the main floor. :)

Quote: Lemieux66

And if the count is good and they say no? Are you going to just not play?

Hmm, good point. Screw em, I'm coming in whether they like it or not.

Quote: malgorium

Hmm, good point. Screw em, I'm coming in whether they like it or not.

That's what the woman did. We all told her to go away and she wouldn't, so we pulled our bets back and let her play by herself. First hand by herself dealer made 21 after showing a 5, so the woman just left angrily.

Quote: ams288

That's what the woman did. We all told her to go away and she wouldn't, so we pulled our bets back and let her play by herself. First hand by herself dealer made 21 after showing a 5, so the woman just left angrily.

I should clarify and say that if i were a double deck game, I would definitely ask - it's no big deal to wait for the next shuffle. But in a 6 deck shoe, say, 1 deck into the game, I'm not going to wait around til the next shuffle just because some players are superstitious.

Quote: malgorium

I should clarify and say that if i were a double deck game, I would definitely ask - it's no big deal to wait for the next shuffle. But in a 6 deck shoe, say, 1 deck into the game, I'm not going to wait around til the next shuffle just because some players are superstitious.

We would have been happy to have her join had she sat down and played normally.

But she would just walk by, play one hand, and leave. Then come back a while later and repeat. It was annoying.

She was not wonging in and out. When she wasn't jumping in, she was nowhere near us. She would go and talk with her friends near the craps tables then come back.

And then she came back, played one hand, and criticized the one guy for splitting his 9s.

That was the last straw. Then we all got hostile with her.

Quote: ams288

We would have been happy to have her join had she sat down and played normally.

But she would just walk by, play one hand, and leave. Then come back a while later and repeat. It was annoying.

She was not wonging in and out. When she wasn't jumping in, she was nowhere near us. She would go and talk with her friends near the craps tables then come back.

And then she came back, played one hand, and criticized the one guy for splitting his 9s.

That was the last straw. Then we all got hostile with her.

Did you have your X-ray goggles on?

Quote: ams288

We would have been happy to have her join had she sat down and played normally.

But she would just walk by, play one hand, and leave. Then come back a while later and repeat. It was annoying.

She was not wonging in and out. When she wasn't jumping in, she was nowhere near us. She would go and talk with her friends near the craps tables then come back.

And then she came back, played one hand, and criticized the one guy for splitting his 9s.

That was the last straw. Then we all got hostile with her.

If she's Asian she might be Wonging out because her name is Wong.

Quote: aceofspades

ams288 - no matter what—members on the boards here will question anything you say in a trip report.

Only when you post nonsense that obviously didn't happen.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Only when you post nonsense that obviously didn't happen.

AoC. This is the third thread (including the original) where you're taking shots at AoS about this. Let it die, please.

Quote: ams288

I played $25 S17 games at Aria, Bellagio, and Ballys.

They disappear quickly at Aria in the early afternoon. Bellagio keeps them at $25 longer. And as far as I can tell they're $25 all day at Ballys.

I've tried to get a $25 S17 game at Aria and have never succeeded. On my last 2 trips I would walk though there at the most off-peak hours (or at least what I thought were), like 13:00 on a Tuesday. All $50+ games. I must just have bad luck.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Only when you post nonsense that obviously didn't happen.

That comes very crossing to the line. Fortunately for you, I'm in a good mood today and let this go with an official warning. Consider yourself on thin ice for a while.

If somebody asked me if they could join in, I'd politely tell them I prefer not. Some others may not be so nice. Why ask? You're adding one more step to not being able to play. Do you want the EV or do you want friends?

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I "wong" in with matchplays/freebets. I never ask whether or not I can because I'm only there for one hand, and don't really care if I upset the table. One guy gave me the glare of death while I jumped in with a matchplay, pulled his bet back, and then put it back in at the last second. First card for him is paint, then an ace. He took his winnings but probably felt like a douchenozzle, meanwhile I double 55 vs dealer 6 and lose with a ten to a 21.

Quote: beachbumbabs

AoC. This is the third thread (including the original) where you're taking shots at AoS about this. Let it die, please.

I'm not really defending Axiom on this, personally I think he probably needs a suspension... just because.

But, speaking of letting it die, Ace is being a bit sensitive about this, and he to, is taking shots at all of us, this may be the 3rd thread he as mentioned something concerning how we are bad people for not believing him(let it go) . I'm sorry he is ButHurt over all of this, but I really think everyone thought he could handle it.

Don't hate us AOS just because some logical people think there is a good chance you made a mistake (possibly got ruffied and abducted by lesbians).

You should have said." how else would I get to 21?"

Quote: AxelWolf

Don't hate us AOS just because some logical people think there is a good chance you made a mistake (possibly got ruffied and abducted by lesbians).

Where do I sign up for THAT ride????? :)

Quote: Tomspur

Where do I sign up for THAT ride????? :)

Here's a question that I have never understood. Why is it that straight guys are so enamored with the concept of lesbians? You do realize that true lesbians are repulsed by a man sexually. It's not like they are going to run over and insist that you join in their lovemaking. Lol. It's funny because straight woman don't seem to engage in any such fantasy. When they see a gay man all they think is "there's someone I would like to go shopping with".

Quote: AcesAndEights

I've tried to get a $25 S17 game at Aria and have never succeeded. On my last 2 trips I would walk though there at the most off-peak hours (or at least what I thought were), like 13:00 on a Tuesday. All $50+ games. I must just have bad luck.

They seemed to go up to $50 well before noon at the Aria. Usually by 10am.

I'm not sure why as they were usually pretty dead.

Bellagio, on the other hand, had $25 S17 tables well into the evening on some of the slower days I was there.

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Quote: kewlj

Here's a question that I have never understood. Why is it that straight guys are so enamored with the concept of lesbians? You do realize that true lesbians are repulsed by a man sexually. It's not like they are going to run over and insist that you join in their lovemaking. Lol. It's funny because straight woman don't seem to engage in any such fantasy. When they see a gay man all they think is "there's someone I would like to go shopping with".

Gay guys are important. Imagine if every guy was straight. It would severely knock down my chances of getting action with women. I might be wrong, but in NYC I feel there are more purely gay men then purely lesbian women which means the count is always plus.

I'd like to add another random observation I saw:

The Venetian - Yes, all their shoe games are 6/5 now with big ugly red placards pointing that out.

BUT - their electronic blackjack games from Azure - or at least the one I played at - are S17, 3-2, RSA, DAS, surrender allowed, with a $5 minimum.

Quote: Lemieux66

Gay guys are important. Imagine if every guy was straight. It would severely knock down my chances of getting action with women. I might be wrong, but in NYC I feel there are more purely gay men then purely lesbian women which means the count is always plus.

NYC has an extremely high proportion of young attractive single women, compared to just about anywhere else in the country.

Quote: kewlj

Here's a question that I have never understood. Why is it that straight guys are so enamored with the concept of lesbians? You do realize that true lesbians are repulsed by a man sexually. It's not like they are going to run over and insist that you join in their lovemaking. Lol. It's funny because straight woman don't seem to engage in any such fantasy. When they see a gay man all they think is "there's someone I would like to go shopping with".

Because lesbians are proof that god exists. Actually you'd be surprised at the amount of male/male romance in fan fiction written by women.

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Quote: AxiomOfChoice

NYC has an extremely high proportion of young attractive single women, compared to just about anywhere else in the country.

I'm working on it. Lol

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Don't be so certain. Your fantasy women could look like this...

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2014/03/ruling_awaited_in_challenge_of.html

Some guy somewhere is willing to hit that pairs plus. I'm just saying in general lesbians at least the ones we all visualize are gods creations. Either that the universe worked out the odds of 2 woman liking each other who happen to be 9s but I don't believe in odds and math and all that nonsense.

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Quote: Ibeatyouraces

That's definitely one -EV Pair Plus.

Lesbians are all show no go for dudes.

Bi-women are where it's at…love those 3sums!!!

Quote: kewlj

Here's a question that I have never understood. Why is it that straight guys are so enamored with the concept of lesbians? You do realize that true lesbians are repulsed by a man sexually. It's not like they are going to run over and insist that you join in their lovemaking. Lol. It's funny because straight woman don't seem to engage in any such fantasy. When they see a gay man all they think is "there's someone I would like to go shopping with".

Sometimes a joke is really just that....lol

"I've never understood the male obsession with lesbians. Whole area of sex, with nothing for them to do. Ah; just answered my own question there."

Quote: malgorium

I'm kind of a beginning counter, so is this really a big deal? There's a lot on this site about wonging in/out, so is it rude to ever wong in mid-shoe without asking everyone at the table if it's ok?

If you're just a "recreational" player, then I guess it's okay to ask. However, if you want to make money at Blackjack, don't bother asking. If you do ask, and only about 50% of the tables say it's "okay", then you're doubling the time that you have to waste looking for a good count table. Unfortunately, the only way for a low-limit player to profit from card-counting is to table-hop! You're playing Blackjack to make money, not to make friends.