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I go in and I see people that are not familiar; I may have seen their faces, but never talked to them. I do not identify myself. I wind up in the computer and rated by name. I play with minimal cover--which I deem ploppy appeasement cover--and I am obvious, so I would otherwise have no doubt that a couple employees are aware of my play at this point. But doesn't this scream everyone is aware, we are watching you, and the ban is imminent? Or does this commonly happen to others? Could it be that a PB just recognizes me and thinks I wasn't properly put in the system, and has this same diligence with everyone?
In today's world, if you are playing levels that are a concern, they will figure out who you are. Technology is moving so fast, it wouldn't surprise me, if they could run facial recognition, and they attempt to match that not only to their own previous play archives, but previous play databases of other casinos. So your rated play at another, totally unrelated casino could do you in at a place that you play anonymously and unrated. It is even possible they could link to non-casino databases. I have never specifically heard of that, but it wouldn't surprise me. Technology is just moving too fast and that is what we are up against.
This is where I believe, identifying and playing levels that are better tolerated (less a concern) becomes so important. In the past two years, I have enjoyed really successful years. By far the best of my career. My bankroll has tripled in that time. I could now move up and play much higher stakes, but I remain at the mid-level stakes (green to mid black), because that is the level that is well tolerated at most locations I play.
So, if I understand your question or concerns, yes I do believe in today's world, if your play is a concern and you play the same location or locations regularly, they will identify you. My focus is now on making myself not a concern or threat.
Quote: kewljAre you playing at a level that is a concern to that casino? Your post is a little confusing, but it sounds like while you now play unrated, that your play is drawing attention. They definitely have the technology to take your face from your unrated play and match it with previous rated play, which gives the info they want. Is that what you are suggesting happened?
In today's world, if you are playing levels that are a concern, they will figure out who you are. Technology is moving so fast, it wouldn't surprise me, if they could run facial recognition, and they attempt to match that not only to their own previous play archives, but previous play databases of other casinos. So your rated play at another, totally unrelated casino could do you in at a place that you play anonymously and unrated. It is even possible they could link to non-casino databases. I have never specifically heard of that, but it wouldn't surprise me. Technology is just moving too fast and that is what we are up against.
This is where I believe, identifying and playing levels that are better tolerated (less a concern) becomes so important. In the past two years, I have enjoyed really successful years. By far the best of my career. My bankroll has tripled in that time. I could now move up and play much higher stakes, but I remain at the mid-level stakes (green to mid black), because that is the level that is well tolerated at most locations I play.
So, if I understand your question or concerns, yes I do believe in today's world, if your play is a concern and you play the same location or locations regularly, they will identify you. My focus is now on making myself not a concern or threat.
No my play is not a threat at any given time, although cumulatively it will surpass their tolerance soon enough. I am recognized by the floor and rated, although I attempt to remain off the books.
I am not concerned with hi-tech surveillance seeing thru my anonymity. I am far below that betting level, and I make little effort to remain truly anonymous. I'll sell my info for $15, but not for $2--or something like that. The problem I am referring to in the post is that I cannot seem to have it both ways; once I got the card, it is difficult to ever play unrated. I was wondering if this is common, or if it may be a typical sign that they are interested in a suspicious player. I have no experience with unrated play, if that helps. It may or may not be noteworthy that I had a paranoid idea at an earlier date that a PB called surveillance to run a skills check, and I promptly switched sections. This was the same PB in my section when I noticed I was rated on the following date.
Quote: SonuvabishNo my play is not a threat at any given time, although cumulatively it will surpass their tolerance soon enough. I am recognized by the floor and rated, although I attempt to remain off the books.
I am not concerned with hi-tech surveillance seeing thru my anonymity. I am far below that betting level, and I make little effort to remain truly anonymous. I'll sell my info for $15, but not for $2--or something like that. The problem I am referring to in the post is that I cannot seem to have it both ways; once I got the card, it is difficult to ever play unrated. I was wondering if this is common, or if it may be a typical sign that they are interested in a suspicious player. I have no experience with unrated play, if that helps. It may or may not be noteworthy that I had a paranoid idea at an earlier date that a PB called surveillance to run a skills check, and I promptly switched sections. This was the same PB in my section when I noticed I was rated on the following date.
Not trying to give you a hard time, but your post is most confusing. First line says "my play is not a threat at any given time." Then later you say that you think a PB called surveillance to run a skill check. ?? If someone is running a skill check, then you ARE a threat or at least a concern to that location or at least that individual.
I understand that you are indicating you are playing lower limits. There are some casinos that don't tolerate even low limit play. Here in Vegas such examples are El Cortez and South Point, which will back you off for small spreads in red. So low limit play does not give you immunity from heat and attention. It depends on the casino involved and that is specifically what I am talking about when I refer to identifying that particular casinos tolerance levels.
If I was in your situation, I would back myself off from that location for a period of time, and try to learn from the experience and move on. But I have the luxury of a large rotation of stores to play. I suspect you don't have that luxury.
Quote: kewljNot trying to give you a hard time, but your post is most confusing. First line says "my play is not a threat at any given time." Then later you say that you think a PB called surveillance to run a skill check. ?? If someone is running a skill check, then you ARE a threat or at least a concern to that location or at least that individual.
I understand that you are indicating you are playing lower limits. There are some casinos that don't tolerate even low limit play. Here in Vegas such examples are El Cortez and South Point, which will back you off for small spreads in red. So low limit play does not give you immunity from heat and attention. It depends on the casino involved and that is specifically what I am talking about when I refer to identifying that particular casinos tolerance levels.
If I was in your situation, I would back myself off from that location for a period of time, and try to learn from the experience and move on. But I have the luxury of a large rotation of stores to play. I suspect you don't have that luxury.
In the past, I have run into individuals half-shoeing me. I'd go to another pit and no heat. In my opinion, it's the person who has the issue not the casino at that point. I think that's a bit of a grey area, there is no bright line where you are a concern or not, which leads me to believe that I will be allowed to play until I accumulate to much money or too many sessions--that it's not the betting level per se. And no, I don't have much choice as to where to go. I have 4 other choices: worse game; worse game and higher stakes; not affordable; or better games much farther away.
So I guess you are saying that their behavior probably is due to them being suspicious? Maybe I should try a different shift.
Quote: 1BBIf they know that you have a card but you don't want to use it, just say that your wife or girlfriend is using it at the slots where the comps are much more plentiful. Who can argue with that?
Positive pit boss response: You can both gain comps at the same time!
Negative pit boss response (if casino frowns upon it): Your girlfriend is not supposed to be using your card, sir.
Quote: 1BBIf they know that you have a card but you don't want to use it, just say that your wife or girlfriend is using it at the slots where the comps are much more plentiful. Who can argue with that?
Pit never asked. Dealer did like normal, and I just said no. Can't be like hey I was spying on your screen last time, and I just wanted to make sure you don't double-comp me again because my fictitious friend is using my card, even tho if that's the truth, I'm patently abusing your black-letter policies. This casino strongly frowns on it.
Quote: 1BBIf they know that you have a card but you don't want to use it, just say that your wife or girlfriend is using it at the slots where the comps are much more plentiful. Who can argue with that?
I was using a friend's card for a promo. He played BJ while I played VP. PB could look up the action I put in on his card on a VP machine.
You should not have gotten a player's card.
Quote: Lemieux66I think ratholing your money can be a great move. In AC, when the guy leaves they always ask the dealer if the guy won or lost. You're gonna lose sometimes anyway, but adding on a few extra "losing" sessions can only be beneficial. They also seem to give extra comp dollars to losers.
I guess I mean I never really gave much thought to resorting to these methods. Perhaps I should. I am really more wondering about people's interpretation of this inability to play unrated. I feel like I am a marked man.
1) When you use your players card in the beginning a few times and you go to this one particular store on a few occasions within a relatively short period of time then the floors and or pit bosses will get to know you, to such a point where, when you show up they will no longer even ask you for your card but simply put you into the TMS system. This is done as a customer service as they know you don't always want to take your card out of your wallet and give it to them. They will hook you up because it is part of their job description.
Side note: They are not trying to put you in the system because they suspect you of anything, they are merely doing their jobs and trying to keep you happy in the process.
This, in my opinion is due to you signing up for the card in the first place and using it on multiple occasions. The floor/Pit manager is simply extending the courtesy to you everytime you walk up.
2) If you remained a "refused name" then you would have pulled heat MUCH quicker because floors/pit managers/surveillance are MUCH more suspicious of players who choose not to be rated, especially if they buy in for $500 or more, and their betting pattern is even remotely suspicious. In fact if a player sits down at a quarter table and is RN, it is the duty of the floor to phone Surveillance immediately and inform them. It is then up to the eye to run a skills check and inform the floor and pit of the outcome.
In my humble opinion it is better to play rated and camouflage your play in other ways than being a RN and being on their radar from the get go.
Remember not ALL actions by the floors/pit managers are suspicious as far as you are concerned. They are simply doing their jobs UNTIL such a point where they take action against you, THEN you should worry.
Otherwise have you considered that they are actually just trying to make your life easier byt entering your info into the system without you asking?
I hope I udnerstood your OP correctly and have helped in a small way.
Quote: TomspurFrom a casino persepctive, here is what I would say.
1) When you use your players card in the beginning a few times and you go to this one particular store on a few occasions within a relatively short period of time then the floors and or pit bosses will get to know you, to such a point where, when you show up they will no longer even ask you for your card but simply put you into the TMS system. This is done as a customer service as they know you don't always want to take your card out of your wallet and give it to them. They will hook you up because it is part of their job description.
Side note: They are not trying to put you in the system because they suspect you of anything, they are merely doing their jobs and trying to keep you happy in the process.
This, in my opinion is due to you signing up for the card in the first place and using it on multiple occasions. The floor/Pit manager is simply extending the courtesy to you everytime you walk up.
2) If you remained a "refused name" then you would have pulled heat MUCH quicker because floors/pit managers/surveillance are MUCH more suspicious of players who choose not to be rated, especially if they buy in for $500 or more, and their betting pattern is even remotely suspicious. In fact if a player sits down at a quarter table and is RN, it is the duty of the floor to phone Surveillance immediately and inform them. It is then up to the eye to run a skills check and inform the floor and pit of the outcome.
In my humble opinion it is better to play rated and camouflage your play in other ways than being a RN and being on their radar from the get go.
Remember not ALL actions by the floors/pit managers are suspicious as far as you are concerned. They are simply doing their jobs UNTIL such a point where they take action against you, THEN you should worry.
Otherwise have you considered that they are actually just trying to make your life easier byt entering your info into the system without you asking?
I hope I udnerstood your OP correctly and have helped in a small way.
Yes, this was very helpful, especially from your unique perspective, Tomspur. I found it unusual that I would be rated without giving them my card, but it seems they are not doing that because of suspicious behavior...they are just doing their job, and giving me a benefit. Not to say they don't know, I am sure there is some awareness. I usually buy in for small amounts...only reaching $500 if I am losing. And I would hope the pit negligently ignores my spread. So it could be beneficial to try a different shift. But this basically tells me that there is nothing about this particular procedure that should enhance my worries. In fact, it just gives me a little extra info--they know my face.
Quote: SonuvabishYes, this was very helpful, especially from your unique perspective, Tomspur. I found it unusual that I would be rated without giving them my card, but it seems they are not doing that because of suspicious behavior...they are just doing their job, and giving me a benefit. Not to say they don't know, I am sure there is some awareness. I usually buy in for small amounts...only reaching $500 if I am losing. And I would hope the pit negligently ignores my spread. So it could be beneficial to try a different shift. But this basically tells me that there is nothing about this particular procedure that should enhance my worries. In fact, it just gives me a little extra info--they know my face.
That was exactly my point yes. They are simply showing you that, as a "regular", they know you and want you to be comfortable in the fact that you are rated without actually going through the process of giving them your card.
Like you mention as well, this doesn't mean they don't suspect you of counting. Perhaps your action is just too little for them to be concerned over or perhaps they have read some of Zender's literature on card counters :)
